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Does Bobby Ryan's value = PK Subban's value ?

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Old
08-25-2012, 04:27 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by subbang76 View Post
Sorry, a little off topic from the OP but I was reading comments on Hockey Inside/Out and one post suggested that the Canadiens should trade P.K. Subban for Del Zotto and Kreider. It's very interesting.. Im not supporting this idea but is the value there in that proposal???
I can't see the Rangers being interest in this trade. The difference between Del Zotto and Subban certainly isn't worth the Rangers best prospect, who already proved himself in playoffs.

From a Habs standpoint, while certainly interesting. I wouldn't do it. Kreider has a very unique combination of strength, size, skill, and speed, but trading Subban leaves a huge hole on the backend. Markov is our only potential top pairing defenseman, but he is too much of a wildcard.

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08-25-2012, 04:48 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Ballgarath View Post
vancouver need a top6 gritty 220 power forward more than they need subban , of course the canucks would love to have subban but they have a need for size and grit up front. Other than the right handed shot vancouver has a very good D. and dont need subban. The need for ryan in vancouver is greater.
Read back please.

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08-25-2012, 04:53 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
I honestly dont see what makes Subban top 30 right now. He is an "offensive" defenseman who hasnt put up offensive numbers.... he is "alright-decent" defensivly (please dont try to make him seem more then that), and his hits/blocked shots and all that jazz are just average, nothing special.

To look at him and Phaneuf side by side, here:

Points: Phaneuf, 44, Subban 36
Hits: Phaneuf, 214, Subban, 105
Blocked shots: Phaneuf, 127, Subban, 113
Give aways: Phaneuf, 76, Subban, 88
Take aways: Phaneuf, 33, Subban 28
+/-: Phaneuf -10, Subban +9
TOI/game: PHaneuf, 25:17, Subban, 24:18

The only thing Subban has on him is +/- which can easily be contributed to the fact that Montreal actually has a goalie that can stop a puck. Looking at that, if Phaneuf is actually #25 per votes, then I cant see how Subban makes the top 30. The people that regard him so highly are the ones that are looking at potential, not what he has shown to date.

In his young NHL career he has been average. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not deserving of all the hype he's had. To get back on topic... Ryans career to date has not been average. He has been scoring goals more consistently then almost everyone in the league, while being a physical and 2-way player. Subban is not worth anything close to Ryan right now, and he will have to do some major improvements in the future to get to that point.
This proves to everyone you havent been watching P.K. enough.

He's defensively sound. In fact, he was our best dman for the past two years. He's on-par defensively with Gorges who's considered to be the top shutdown dman.

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08-26-2012, 07:24 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
I honestly dont see what makes Subban top 30 right now. He is an "offensive" defenseman who hasnt put up offensive numbers.... he is "alright-decent" defensivly (please dont try to make him seem more then that), and his hits/blocked shots and all that jazz are just average, nothing special.

To look at him and Phaneuf side by side, here:

Points: Phaneuf, 44, Subban 36
Hits: Phaneuf, 214, Subban, 105
Blocked shots: Phaneuf, 127, Subban, 113
Give aways: Phaneuf, 76, Subban, 88
Take aways: Phaneuf, 33, Subban 28
+/-: Phaneuf -10, Subban +9
TOI/game: PHaneuf, 25:17, Subban, 24:18

The only thing Subban has on him is +/- which can easily be contributed to the fact that Montreal actually has a goalie that can stop a puck. Looking at that, if Phaneuf is actually #25 per votes, then I cant see how Subban makes the top 30. The people that regard him so highly are the ones that are looking at potential, not what he has shown to date.

In his young NHL career he has been average. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not deserving of all the hype he's had. To get back on topic... Ryans career to date has not been average. He has been scoring goals more consistently then almost everyone in the league, while being a physical and 2-way player. Subban is not worth anything close to Ryan right now, and he will have to do some major improvements in the future to get to that point.
OUCH!

Seriously though... this guy comes up with some bare minimum numbers to suggest that Subban is a top 30 defenceman when there are generally around 40-90 defencemen who achieve those numbers.

The numbers suggest, that Subban is probably a slightly above average defenceman in this league, which would put him as a #3 on a reasonably good team. Does he have potential to be a star? absolutely. Do I think he will reach the potential? yes, but only after he goes downhill and gets a reality check with a trade in a year or two. Any team trading for him now has to take into account that he's going downhill (like Phaneuf did when he got off his ELC) and they may have to trade him to make him a good defenceman in a year or two.

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Old
08-26-2012, 07:28 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
OUCH!

Seriously though... this guy comes up with some bare minimum numbers to suggest that Subban is a top 30 defenceman when there are generally around 40-90 defencemen who achieve those numbers.

The numbers suggest, that Subban is probably a slightly above average defenceman in this league, which would put him as a #3 on a reasonably good team. Does he have potential to be a star? absolutely. Do I think he will reach the potential? yes, but only after he goes downhill and gets a reality check with a trade in a year or two. Any team trading for him now has to take into account that he's going downhill (like Phaneuf did when he got off his ELC) and they may have to trade him to make him a good defenceman in a year or two.
Where do you people come up with this stuff? That's a cool story, bro.

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08-26-2012, 03:32 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Selanne.Teemu.
ok and selanne teemu wasn't there before ? why ryan had more pp time before than last season ?

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08-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
ok and selanne teemu wasn't there before ? why ryan had more pp time before than last season ?
Stop being lazy, and check Teemu's game log from those seasons...


Last edited by Sean Garrity: 08-26-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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08-27-2012, 02:27 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
ok and selanne teemu wasn't there before ? why ryan had more pp time before than last season ?
Injuries. They happen.

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08-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Where do you people come up with this stuff? That's a cool story, bro.
You should not waste time on a guy who actually thinks and posted in public that Subban would not break "SOME" teams' top 4!!! LOL. Let's not even go into the FACT that Subban's offensive numbers ALONE put him 28th in the NHL. I believe that qualifies as top 30. but why let facts stand in the way of stupidity. So, don't waste your breath on the guy.

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08-27-2012, 02:37 PM
  #235
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Value wise, very comparable. Even though Ryan is more impactful in his position, Subban is still a young defenceman who can only get better.

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08-27-2012, 06:43 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You should not waste time on a guy who actually thinks and posted in public that Subban would not break "SOME" teams' top 4!!! LOL. Let's not even go into the FACT that Subban's offensive numbers ALONE put him 28th in the NHL. I believe that qualifies as top 30. but why let facts stand in the way of stupidity. So, don't waste your breath on the guy.
if subban plays on the left side he only makes vancouvers 3rd pairing behind hamhuis and edler so not the top4 in vancouver for subban.

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08-27-2012, 08:02 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You should not waste time on a guy who actually thinks and posted in public that Subban would not break "SOME" teams' top 4!!! LOL. Let's not even go into the FACT that Subban's offensive numbers ALONE put him 28th in the NHL. I believe that qualifies as top 30. but why let facts stand in the way of stupidity. So, don't waste your breath on the guy.
Subban would be a top 4 defenceman on just about any team in the league, that doesn't mean that team would want the headache that goes along with having him on the roster.

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08-27-2012, 08:11 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
OUCH!

Seriously though... this guy comes up with some bare minimum numbers to suggest that Subban is a top 30 defenceman when there are generally around 40-90 defencemen who achieve those numbers.

The numbers suggest, that Subban is probably a slightly above average defenceman in this league, which would put him as a #3 on a reasonably good team. Does he have potential to be a star? absolutely. Do I think he will reach the potential? yes, but only after he goes downhill and gets a reality check with a trade in a year or two. Any team trading for him now has to take into account that he's going downhill (like Phaneuf did when he got off his ELC) and they may have to trade him to make him a good defenceman in a year or two.
40 - 90.Oh stop please my belly is hurting so much from laughing.Please please stop

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08-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
OUCH!

Seriously though... this guy comes up with some bare minimum numbers to suggest that Subban is a top 30 defenceman when there are generally around 40-90 defencemen who achieve those numbers.

The numbers suggest, that Subban is probably a slightly above average defenceman in this league, which would put him as a #3 on a reasonably good team. Does he have potential to be a star? absolutely. Do I think he will reach the potential? yes, but only after he goes downhill and gets a reality check with a trade in a year or two. Any team trading for him now has to take into account that he's going downhill (like Phaneuf did when he got off his ELC) and they may have to trade him to make him a good defenceman in a year or two.
Child please.

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Old
08-27-2012, 08:39 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
OUCH!

Seriously though... this guy comes up with some bare minimum numbers to suggest that Subban is a top 30 defenceman when there are generally around 40-90 defencemen who achieve those numbers.

The numbers suggest, that Subban is probably a slightly above average defenceman in this league, which would put him as a #3 on a reasonably good team. Does he have potential to be a star? absolutely. Do I think he will reach the potential? yes, but only after he goes downhill and gets a reality check with a trade in a year or two. Any team trading for him now has to take into account that he's going downhill (like Phaneuf did when he got off his ELC) and they may have to trade him to make him a good defenceman in a year or two.
The only team that Subban is a #3 D is the Rangers and I'm only saying this because I don't have the time to argue with Rangers fan because Subban is better than McD and Staal all around.

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08-27-2012, 11:11 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballgarath View Post
if subban plays on the left side he only makes vancouvers 3rd pairing behind hamhuis and edler so not the top4 in vancouver for subban.
Subban is better than Hamhuis please...+ He's on the right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Subban would be a top 4 defenceman on just about any team in the league, that doesn't mean that team would want the headache that goes along with having him on the roster.
BUT WHAT HEADACHE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
The only team that Subban is a #3 D is the Rangers and I'm only saying this because I don't have the time to argue with Rangers fan because Subban is better than McD and Staal all around.
Niet. McD and Staal are outstanding, but P.K. Tops them.

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08-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #242
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Subban > Ryan imo.

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08-28-2012, 12:58 AM
  #243
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Most people see Bobby Ryan on the highlight reel. Please, just watch a habs game with PK. You'll be shocked hes only 23

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08-28-2012, 01:00 AM
  #244
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Well Ducks fans wouldn't even trade Ryan for Karlsson so what does that tell you

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08-28-2012, 02:23 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
Most people see Bobby Ryan on the highlight reel. Please, just watch a habs game with PK. You'll be shocked hes only 23
Most people see PK Subban on the highlight real. Please, just watch a Ducks game with BR. You'll be shocked hes only 25.

I can do it too!

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08-28-2012, 04:40 AM
  #246
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Well Ducks fans wouldn't even trade Ryan for Karlsson so what does that tell you
If true, then there's not very many smart Duck fans.

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08-28-2012, 04:46 AM
  #247
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If true, then there's not very many smart Duck fans.
It was Ryan and Perry for Karlsson and Spezza. Mandy doesn't understand that we might need more than two players in our top six.

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08-28-2012, 08:45 AM
  #248
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The thing about PK is that its hard to find another defenceman with his skill set.
He's still a bit raw, and all these locker room issues are overblown, ask Gill.

Right now i say Ryan has more value, but lets keep in mind that PK is younger, has not been in the league as long and defencemen take more time to develop.
Also, PK has played under coaches that held him back in the NHL so lets see what he can do now.

I dont think now is the best time to ask this question and get a fair comparison.

And even if Ryan has hit his ceiling, so what, he is an excellent player.

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08-28-2012, 09:53 AM
  #249
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I'd say Ryan is worth a little more for being a more complete player... but PK is worth quite a bit.

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08-28-2012, 10:19 AM
  #250
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I'd say Ryan is worth a little more for being a more complete player... but PK is worth quite a bit.
In what world is Ryan more ''complete'' than P.K. ?

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