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David Desharnais next contract

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Old
08-27-2012, 02:29 AM
  #351
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Ryder was never a great player. He showed potential as a rookie, so in that regard, he is a fair comparison to DD because it IS possible that DD has gotten as good as he will get. However, like I have said, having watched DD, I see him as being better than Ryder in regards to his skill and compete levels. I believe that DD CAN and PROBABLY WILL get better. I was right about Ryder. He never became a premiere player because he was not very good. He was a .63 career PPG player. Nothing horrific, but nothing to write home about, either. DD is currently a .64 career ppg player, but his ppg totals have increased each and every NHL season he has played. Last season he put up a .74 ppg pace. So, IF he stays healthy, has healthy line mates, and our second line improves enough to be considered an offensive threat, it is quite likely, quite possible, that DD will get better since he seems to be the kind of player who improves if given the opportunity to do so. Another year of chemistry with Pacioretty and Cole will definitely help, as well.
you know he has only ONE full season right ?

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08-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its not a question of ''do you want Desharnais or someone better?'', thats not a decision we have to make.
Actually that is the question, the only important question. I've decided through evidence, history, the other centers on the team at this time, his small size, and his lack of goal scoring on a team with no scoring centers, that the Habs , now, and for the next 5 years, will not win a cup with DD as no. 1 or 2 center.

I could be wrong. And I have stated that if DD gets 30 goals this year, I will eat every word I have written. I stand by this.

I want to see goals from DD. I want him to adjust his game like very good centers do, and give the team what it needs, goals from center.

Then I will take him seriously, not before.

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08-27-2012, 12:24 PM
  #353
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I'm a big DD fan and have supported him on this thread. If he remains the teams top center he could hit 70+ points.. but the big but is on a good team he is a third/2nd line center getting 40-60pts a season. if we pay him 1st line money then this will be bad for our club, i would like him signed long term at 3.5 or less. If we pay him more then 4m it needs to be 2 years or less.

I luv DD but we need to be realistic.

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08-27-2012, 01:55 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Actually that is the question, the only important question. I've decided through evidence, history, the other centers on the team at this time, his small size, and his lack of goal scoring on a team with no scoring centers, that the Habs , now, and for the next 5 years, will not win a cup with DD as no. 1 or 2 center.

I could be wrong. And I have stated that if DD gets 30 goals this year, I will eat every word I have written. I stand by this.

I want to see goals from DD. I want him to adjust his game like very good centers do, and give the team what it needs, goals from center.

Then I will take him seriously, not before.
Goal scoring is usually not the primary part of a center's job. Outside the machines (Stamkos&Malkin and to a lesser extent Tavares) you'll see most top centers between 15 and 25 goals. Desharnais was on the lower end with 16 but was no exception - Henrik Sedin had 14, Getlzaf had 11 and Datsyuk had 19 for instance.

Its not unreasonable to expect Desharnais to score more goals however and I expect he will (20g is what I expect next year). He's been a good goal scorer at every level, it might just be a matter of adapting his playing style to the NHL, he needs to shoot more as he doesn't have a bad shot (not the strongest but accurate and quick release). His goal scoring was not helped by the fact that he played most of the season with two great goal scorers with average passing while himself is a great passer with average goal scoring. If Therrien goes back to a Carbonneau-ish ''lets put a fourth liner on each line!'' you can expect Desharnais to have more goals and less assists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanont
I'm a big DD fan and have supported him on this thread. If he remains the teams top center he could hit 70+ points.. but the big but is on a good team he is a third/2nd line center getting 40-60pts a season. if we pay him 1st line money then this will be bad for our club, i would like him signed long term at 3.5 or less. If we pay him more then 4m it needs to be 2 years or less.
He won't get big money and thats precisely why he's golden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl
Actually that is the question, the only important question. I've decided through evidence, history, the other centers on the team at this time, his small size, and his lack of goal scoring on a team with no scoring centers, that the Habs , now, and for the next 5 years, will not win a cup with DD as no. 1 or 2 center.
Galchenyuk will be our no1 center within 3 years. Meanwhile its possible Desharnais plays as a 3rd line offensive specialist a-la Briere if we acquire a better no2 center or if Eller finds out about using his teammates. Desharnais can contribute if we have the opportunity of having a stacked contending team, having 3 legit top6 centers is not unheard of, such depth is a great luxury.

Once again the choice is not ''Desharnais or better!?'', if we get a better center we don't have to ditch Desharnais. I'd rather have Shea Weber than PK Subban, it doesn't mean Subban needs to be put on waivers ASAP.


Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 08-27-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old
08-27-2012, 04:31 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
you know he has only ONE full season right ?
Yes, I do. He has touched the NHL ice in 3 separate seasons. In each of the last two, while his game totals increased, so did his PPG totals also increase. Please try to follow along. You do know there are players whose PPG totals do not increase as they play more games, right? I am so glad I was here to you as you requested.

Since you agree that DD is quite likely to score about 70 points, you CAN stop trying to be argumentative. It is pointless at this time. Lol.

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08-28-2012, 01:38 AM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Yes, I do. He has touched the NHL ice in 3 separate seasons. In each of the last two, while his game totals increased, so did his PPG totals also increase. Please try to follow along. You do know there are players whose PPG totals do not increase as they play more games, right? I am so glad I was here to you as you requested.

Since you agree that DD is quite likely to score about 70 points, you CAN stop trying to be argumentative. It is pointless at this time. Lol.
considering the "quality" of your arguments, i'd cut on the LOL if I were you.

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08-28-2012, 01:45 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
considering the "quality" of your arguments, i'd cut on the LOL if I were you.
Considering you agreed with me all along, but were too stubborn to simply do so until you had painted yourself into a corner AND you were being the smart a$$ putting the smiley without recognizing what I was saying, I will continue to LOL at the "quality" of your arguments, while smiling and enjoying the fact that you agree with my assessment that DD can improve to be around a 70 point player. Feel free to add to my enjoyment with further replies about "quality", please...

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08-28-2012, 04:53 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Considering you agreed with me all along, but were too stubborn to simply do so until you had painted yourself into a corner AND you were being the smart a$$ putting the smiley without recognizing what I was saying, I will continue to LOL at the "quality" of your arguments, while smiling and enjoying the fact that you agree with my assessment that DD can improve to be around a 70 point player. Feel free to add to my enjoyment with further replies about "quality", please...
let's start with that -> wrong

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08-28-2012, 05:50 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
let's start with that -> wrong
Oh, how little memory some of us have. Luckily, it is in print!

I posted

Quote:
So, yes, it is possible that DD can get 10 more assists and a few more goals this season and break the 70 point barrier.
Post #325, page 13.

You posted:

Quote:
That means I think that Desharnais will get between 52 and 68 points approximately 70% of the time, and between 44 and 76 points about 95% of the time.
Post #347, page 14.

When you use statistics, that means it is POSSIBLE that DD will get into the higher end of the scale (about 70 points). I clearly stated all along that I believe it is possible (even likely) that DD will improve and get about 70 points. See? I am not "let's start with that -> wrong", I am actually right. Do you need more memory aides? Can I help further with your reading comprehension? I DID leave out the "LOL" this time, though. I do not want to hurt your feelings since we are on the same side of the equation in terms of what I have stated to be possible all along.

Thanks for the fun! Seriously.

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Old
08-28-2012, 05:50 PM
  #360
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Hockey Guide (which I just bought at the store) puts Desharnais at 65-points this year. That's a good goal for him.

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08-28-2012, 06:59 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Oh, how little memory some of us have. Luckily, it is in print!

I posted



Post #325, page 13.

You posted:



Post #347, page 14.

When you use statistics, that means it is POSSIBLE that DD will get into the higher end of the scale (about 70 points). I clearly stated all along that I believe it is possible (even likely) that DD will improve and get about 70 points. See? I am not "let's start with that -> wrong", I am actually right. Do you need more memory aides? Can I help further with your reading comprehension? I DID leave out the "LOL" this time, though. I do not want to hurt your feelings since we are on the same side of the equation in terms of what I have stated to be possible all along.

Thanks for the fun! Seriously.
For whatever reason you are thinking that I and ECWHSWI are the same person.

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08-28-2012, 08:30 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
For whatever reason you are thinking that I and ECWHSWI are the same person.
LOL...I AM getting old, you know. Faulty vision, memory, etc... All I can say is "sorry" for the confusion...

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08-29-2012, 12:45 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Oh, how little memory some of us have. Luckily, it is in print!

I posted



Post #325, page 13.

You posted:



Post #347, page 14.

When you use statistics, that means it is POSSIBLE that DD will get into the higher end of the scale (about 70 points). I clearly stated all along that I believe it is possible (even likely) that DD will improve and get about 70 points. See? I am not "let's start with that -> wrong", I am actually right. Do you need more memory aides? Can I help further with your reading comprehension? I DID leave out the "LOL" this time, though. I do not want to hurt your feelings since we are on the same side of the equation in terms of what I have stated to be possible all along.

Thanks for the fun! Seriously.
that's probably the funniest thing I've read in this thread... and it comes from a "lesson giver" LOL

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08-29-2012, 05:36 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Oh, how little memory some of us have. Luckily, it is in print!

I posted



Post #325, page 13.

You posted:



Post #347, page 14.

When you use statistics, that means it is POSSIBLE that DD will get into the higher end of the scale (about 70 points). I clearly stated all along that I believe it is possible (even likely) that DD will improve and get about 70 points. See? I am not "let's start with that -> wrong", I am actually right. Do you need more memory aides? Can I help further with your reading comprehension? I DID leave out the "LOL" this time, though. I do not want to hurt your feelings since we are on the same side of the equation in terms of what I have stated to be possible all along.

Thanks for the fun! Seriously.
He had a good season but I'm not convinced that the Habs can win a championship with him as their first line center.

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08-29-2012, 06:25 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's probably the funniest thing I've read in this thread... and it comes from a "lesson giver" LOL
It truly was funny. What can I say, I am human and make mistakes...LOL. Sorry for mixing the two of you up... Of course, I am sure I am still, somehow, right!

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08-29-2012, 06:33 PM
  #366
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Keep it a bit more civil, guys. Posts may start disappearing.

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08-29-2012, 07:22 PM
  #367
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Bourque is out for 8 to 12 weeks.

What do we do? Our best prospect at wing is Gallagher??
Too smal to play with DD or Gionta???

Down the road, it will be the same with Kristo, Collberg, Hudon.......
Won't be able to play with DD or with each other.

I don't hate DD but his size hurt the habs.
And the one place we got good depth is at center, not at wings!

Now that Bourque is out what do you do?
Might have to break the Max-DD-Cole line?

Would be easier if we had bigger center:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Gallagher - Eller/Glachenyuk - Cole

See how easy it is.....with bigger center
Now with DD, what are the options???

Palushaj???
Moen???
Kovalev???

I mean, there's not so much good options.....


Simple, Habs are not build to surround small center....nothing against DD.

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08-29-2012, 07:29 PM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Bourque is out for 8 to 12 weeks.

What do we do? Our best prospect at wing is Gallagher??
Too smal to play with DD or Gionta???

Down the road, it will be the same with Kristo, Collberg, Hudon.......
Won't be able to play with DD or with each other.

I don't hate DD but his size hurt the habs.
And the one place we got good depth is at center, not at wings!

Now that Bourque is out what do you do?
Might have to break the Max-DD-Cole line?

Would be easier if we had bigger center:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Gallagher - Eller/Glachenyuk - Cole

See how easy it is.....with bigger center
Now with DD, what are the options???

Palushaj???
Moen???
Kovalev???

I mean, there's not so much good options.....


Simple, Habs are not build to surround small center....nothing against DD.
Eller never proved he could anchor a scoring line on a regular basis, and Gallagher never proved he could actually play in the NHL.

And you probably (conveniently?) forgot what could be the best option in your (hypothetical) scenario... which is basically moving DD to wing, in lieu and place of Gallagher.

The problem isn't settled -- you know, the guy playing center never, ever proved he could anchor a scoring line -- but at least, you have the 2nd best offensive player of the team in the lineup.

Back to your question : With Bourque out, Aaron Palushaj probably plays LW on the 2nd line. Better fit than Leblanc at LW. Unless Gomez...

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08-29-2012, 09:12 PM
  #369
Drydenwasthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Bourque is out for 8 to 12 weeks.

What do we do? Our best prospect at wing is Gallagher??
Too smal to play with DD or Gionta???

Down the road, it will be the same with Kristo, Collberg, Hudon.......
Won't be able to play with DD or with each other.

I don't hate DD but his size hurt the habs.
And the one place we got good depth is at center, not at wings!

Now that Bourque is out what do you do?
Might have to break the Max-DD-Cole line?

Would be easier if we had bigger center:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Gallagher - Eller/Glachenyuk - Cole

See how easy it is.....with bigger center
Now with DD, what are the options???

Palushaj???
Moen???
Kovalev???

I mean, there's not so much good options.....


Simple, Habs are not build to surround small center....nothing against DD.
Of course, you could keep DD with Cole and Pacioretty, then move Eller/Galchenyuk to play LW with Gionta and Plekanec. The great thing with this scenario is that it allows us to keep our best line together, and moves more size to the second line where it is needed.

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08-29-2012, 09:58 PM
  #370
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Signing Desharnais to a big long-term extension now would be ill-advised unless it's something like 3-3.5 M per season on a short term.

There's just too little of a sample size.

He was put in a fantastic situation with 2 power wingers and a coach who wouldn't even dare to break that line up.

Personally, I'd make him trade bait well before signing him long-term. Sell high. This would obviously be once Galchenyuk is considered ready, likely in off-season/training camp 2013. I see Plekanec's complete game as a much better fit as the #2 C behind a youngster like Galchenyuk. Then again, I also fully believe Plekanec would have outproduced Desharnais' numbers had he had Pacioretty and Cole. To me he's just a better player and his numbers got screwed by everything that went wrong last year and Rene Bourque deciding his season ended as soon as the trade happened.

Main problem is dealing Desharnais would lead to a total **** storm unless another quality Québécois is in the deal, or we get a pick that allows us to draft one (basically a 1st rounder). That's a hard deal to make.

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08-30-2012, 02:03 AM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Bourque is out for 8 to 12 weeks.

What do we do? Our best prospect at wing is Gallagher??
Too smal to play with DD or Gionta???
Louis Leblanc is ahead of Gallagher due to experience and he's proven to be quite reliable in his zone as well at the NHL level. Let Gallagher play in the AHL for a bit, he'll earn a callup soon enough.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Leblanc-Plekanec-Gionta

If Leblanc can't play LW we can try :

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Leblanc
Cole-Plekanec-Gionta

Its ill advised to break the first line however, its much better to try and find a solution for the second line so we have two good lines. Just reuniting Gionta and Pleky is good as they play well together. There is also the option of sending Eller to LW with Pleky and Gionta and use Leblanc as third line center but I doubt the org intends to ever use Leblanc as a center in the future.

As for the size - Desharnais basically replaces Cammalleri and Gionta is getting older every year. Within two years Gionta might very well be gone and will be replaced by Gallagher in every way as the resident hard working smallish scoring winger. Collberg and Kristo are both going to play NHL near 6' and 200lb, size isn't an issue for them. Hudon remains a project until further notice and is probably years away from seeing regular NHL icetime.


Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 08-30-2012 at 02:10 AM.
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08-30-2012, 08:58 AM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Louis Leblanc is ahead of Gallagher due to experience and he's proven to be quite reliable in his zone as well at the NHL level. Let Gallagher play in the AHL for a bit, he'll earn a callup soon enough.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Leblanc-Plekanec-Gionta

If Leblanc can't play LW we can try :

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Leblanc
Cole-Plekanec-Gionta

Its ill advised to break the first line however, its much better to try and find a solution for the second line so we have two good lines. Just reuniting Gionta and Pleky is good as they play well together. There is also the option of sending Eller to LW with Pleky and Gionta and use Leblanc as third line center but I doubt the org intends to ever use Leblanc as a center in the future.

As for the size - Desharnais basically replaces Cammalleri and Gionta is getting older every year. Within two years Gionta might very well be gone and will be replaced by Gallagher in every way as the resident hard working smallish scoring winger. Collberg and Kristo are both going to play NHL near 6' and 200lb, size isn't an issue for them. Hudon remains a project until further notice and is probably years away from seeing regular NHL icetime.
Leblanc should be allowed to dominate in Hamilton.

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08-30-2012, 09:38 AM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Louis Leblanc is ahead of Gallagher due to experience and he's proven to be quite reliable in his zone as well at the NHL level. Let Gallagher play in the AHL for a bit, he'll earn a callup soon enough.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole
Leblanc-Plekanec-Gionta

If Leblanc can't play LW we can try :

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Leblanc
Cole-Plekanec-Gionta

Its ill advised to break the first line however, its much better to try and find a solution for the second line so we have two good lines. Just reuniting Gionta and Pleky is good as they play well together. There is also the option of sending Eller to LW with Pleky and Gionta and use Leblanc as third line center but I doubt the org intends to ever use Leblanc as a center in the future.

As for the size - Desharnais basically replaces Cammalleri and Gionta is getting older every year. Within two years Gionta might very well be gone and will be replaced by Gallagher in every way as the resident hard working smallish scoring winger. Collberg and Kristo are both going to play NHL near 6' and 200lb, size isn't an issue for them. Hudon remains a project until further notice and is probably years away from seeing regular NHL icetime.
It's a solution, but not a good one.
Leblanc is not ready yet for top 6 duty.
Eller is a center, so there he must stay.

That shows you one thing....we don't have any depth at wings able te replace the big guys, if one go down, we're in trouble. Collberg and Kristo are small wingers too, not as small as Gallagher, Gionta or DD but still....it would be better for them to play with bigger, not smaller players.

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08-30-2012, 09:52 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
It's a solution, but not a good one.
Leblanc is not ready yet for top 6 duty.
Eller is a center, so there he must stay.

That shows you one thing....we don't have any depth at wings able te replace the big guys, if one go down, we're in trouble. Collberg and Kristo are small wingers too, not as small as Gallagher, Gionta or DD but still....it would be better for them to play with bigger, not smaller players.
Collberg and Kristo might play a big total of zero games in the NHL, so basing our current roster on them makes no sense whatsoever.

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08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
What do we do? Our best prospect at wing is Gallagher??
Too smal to play with DD or Gionta???

Down the road, it will be the same with Kristo, Collberg, Hudon.......
Won't be able to play with DD or with each other.

I don't hate DD but his size hurt the habs.
And the one place we got good depth is at center, not at wings!
I don't buy into the generally accepted notion that small players are ineffective with other small players. A small player who has success in the NHL has found other ways of winning puck battles - quick hands, quick feet, body position, tenacity... in a battle down low, Plekanec will come out with the puck more often than Eller or Nokelainen. As far as intimidation, I don't think having a Bourque, Pacioretty or Cole on the ice scares opposing players into backing off smaller players.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that size is an advantage. Physical strength is a big part of Bourque, Pacioretty and Cole's success. I'm sure another couple of inches would help Desharnais. There's a reason bigger players tend to translate junior success to the pros more consistently. But I don't see the combined size of a line or team as a necessary part a winning team.

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