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What does your 2012-2013 optimism look like?

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Old
08-27-2012, 07:02 PM
  #51
dralaf
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Seth Jones
please Jebus...

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08-27-2012, 07:14 PM
  #52
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I am sure I will at least have a good time watching - last year was such a trainwreck it almost became fun to watch once it became obvious they were out.

This year could go very differently, but on paper I'd say the line-up is pretty average. I'm excited to see Emelin's progression, and what PK can do with Markov healthy.

I'm gonna miss Cammalleri, etc. but I felt the same way about Fisher etc. when Ottawa had that horrible season two years ago. I wouldn't consider it typical for a team to bounce back the way Ottawa did this season, but I think it does go to show how if a team gels, it can be a lot better than it was on paper.

My biggest concern isn't that they suck this season - I don't mind as long as they continue to improve. I just don't want a Toronto Maple Leafs situation where the team just utterly stagnates. So far I have faith in Bergevin, and I just hope the organization stays committed to winning.

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08-27-2012, 08:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
MB will fix the habs. He will do it mostly from within the organization.
Prospects will get a proper chance to improve in order to earn a spot on the main roster. Sounds simple but it sure has not been implemented in the last few years. Martin was WAY too married to the old veterans. He played them over and over hoping they would turn the team around, well he died with those vets and so did the habs. A waisted year for sure.
MB has handed Timmons a cart blanche finally. No more interference from PG or Gainey. Now on the ice from now on you had better bring your " A " game every night. You had better get along with your team mates and that's ever last one of them. No more in fighting in the room.
Therrien has carte blanche to bench,trade,send down ANYBODY that does not buy into the NEW HABS. This I think will have an effect because I think at least one of the players will test the resolve of Therrien right away. This will lead the player to go to MB office and there, instead of getting his way he will find the exit door and a MB that will tell the player to put his house on the market or go back and DO what Therrein says, and don't slam the door on the way out. We may never hear about all this but I bet this will happen in the first two months. The rest of the players will of course know all this and realize things have really changed. most will be very very happy, the silent ones will realize that doing just enough to get by is NOT good enough anymore. No more easy resort living, no more palm trees and pina coladas hockey. By the way did anybody else notice that NO and GET OUT OF HERE sound the same in any language. Translators not need.

The Feel of the Habs this year will be very different. The few additions will help, but over all I don't think anybody does not understand that this coming year is a transition year. A lot of the very best habs prospects wont be ready this year. This year it's called fix the boat up first, plug the holes, repaint, install the best radars and radios and a great new GPS system so the Habs will always know exactly where they are going all the time. Next year it's start adding horse power to the main engines. adding a bigger set of transmissions for the back end and then adding some high powered turbo boosters for the front end of the engines are for next year.
Basically the Habs are on the same wavelength as we are and after the lockout ends the Habs will end up with the 2nd pick overall in the 2013 Entry Draft.They will draft Seth Jones to complete the best defence corps in the NHL and make it the most physical corps the Habs have had since the 50's.With Price in nets,the defence set,Bergevin and Timmins will be concentrating all of their energies into drafting offensive Top Six players.Somehow by trades for 1st round picks,or packaging picks,they will draft either Johnathan Drouin or Max Domi.Giving Galchenyuk some more grade "A" talent to play alongside Pacioretty,Plekanec,Cole and Collberg.By the end of next summer the Habs will have the prospects they need for a run at the playoffs.It will be another three years before the experts rate them as "Elite" but with the depth,smart UFA signings that Bergevin and the Habs make a "Dynasty" could be the end story for another formidable Montreal Canadiens team in the New Millenium.


Last edited by S Bah: 08-27-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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Old
08-27-2012, 08:47 PM
  #54
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You know I'm thinking a lot of these comments are just hmmms and haaaas, maybe this, maybe that. You never know these days in the NHL. The parity is insane. One strong month and you are in the play-offs as long as you stay some what consistent the rest of the way.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say something a lot don't have much confidence in, including our coaching staff but I really feel that Scott Gomez and Brian Gionta are going to have an incredible year. Maybe not career years but pretty damn close. They will be our first line come January. Where that puts everyone else? I'm not sure,but it will work itself out.

Just a hunch, but a strong hunch. I'm expecting it to be a big story this year for the habs.

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08-27-2012, 09:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
11th-15th is the range given plausible outcomes.

If there are freak outcomes like no injuries or everybody have a career year simultaneously and each of Boston, Buffalo, Ottawa, and Toronto having a lot of injuries they could do better, but that's not what I was assessing. I was assessing where they would fall given plausible situations, excluding a lockout.
the thread was asking you for your "optimistic" assessment.

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08-27-2012, 09:15 PM
  #56
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My optimism is Markov. The flaws of the current team can be heavily mitagated if he's back at a large fraction of his former strength.

Markov+X can solve the 2nd pairing problem. Gorges-Subban on the ice will lead to the team winning with the 1st pairing, a 2nd pairing that beats its opponents means MTL should be at least even at even strength, especially if Price is .925+ on save%.

Markov, as the greatest PP defenseman of his generation brings the powerplay to above average.

Gorges-Subban, Plekanec and Eller continue to be masterful on the penalty kill.

7+ GF/GA 1st pairing ES
7+ GF/GA 2nd pairing ES
15+ GF/GA special teams

~30+ GF/GA total, good enough to be a solid playoff team most years.

Play even to better on even strength have strong special teams and top level goaltending and what I think is a very weak conference after the top 3 (PIT, BOS, NYR) and I can see Montreal 4-6.

Then Galchenyuk + AHL prospects fill out the depth chart and we have a good playoff.

Not at all expecting it to work out this way at all, but they can bounce back like New Jersey if they get the breaks going their way.

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08-27-2012, 09:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
the thread was asking you for your "optimistic" assessment.
Montreal finishes 15th........but only by a few points?!?

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08-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dralaf View Post
Seth Jones
please Jebus...
Even better D prospect the year after (Ekblad).. I suppose everyone wants to tank for him too?

I wan't the Habs back in the playoffs.. Last year was brutal. Best case scenario for me if they miss the playoffs : Barkov falls to us or we trade up a few spots to grab him. I don't see MTL getting another top 5 pick this year.

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08-27-2012, 09:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
Even better D prospect the year after (Ekblad).. I suppose everyone wants to tank for him too?
As explained in the surgical tanking thread:
hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1237081

That is extremely unlikely. There's a huge cohort of talent that will be competing in Hamilton this year: Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn, Nattinen, Leblanc, Gallagher, Holland, etc. Some of those players will begin trickling up to the big club for real in 2013-2014, along with possibly Kristo, Galchenyuk.

Once that happens the rebuilding window will be closed.

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08-27-2012, 10:27 PM
  #60
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Nathan Mackinnon. We'd have an epic 1/2 center duo of Galchenyuk and Mackinnon for the foreseeable future surrounded by already effective veteran wingers, a multitude of great young defensemen and a world class goalie.

Mackinnon has been described as a generational talent. Haven't seen much of him so that could be a bit premature but I think Habs brass needs to make a decision at the latest the trade deadline if they're willing to sneak into the playoffs and do nothing. Or have the opportunity to trade away contracts you really would rather not have, to better your chances of grabbing a cant miss prospect and cap space going into a potentially great UFA class.

Nathan Mackinnon is from Nova Scotia and plays in the Q. If he knows any french at all then even the insufferable pro-french media would be appeased.

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08-27-2012, 11:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yup, that was the analysis I put forth in the surgical tanking thread hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1237081 Here are things that Habs have to look forward to this year, in no particular order: 1) High 1st rounder draft pick, as well as 3 2nd rounders in what analysts are calling the deepest draft since 2003. Possibly more draft picks if Bergevin has the wisdom to sell at the deadline. 2) Alex Galchenyuk playing 9 games at the start of the year, then dominating in the OHL, leading team USA at the world juniors, then possibly leading his team to a memorial cup run, then joining the Bulldogs at the end of the year. He's our best prospect since Guy Lafleur and he's going on a lot of adventures this year. 3) Watching Eller, Emelin, Desharnais, Subban, Pacioretty, Diaz, Weber, and White grow, hold, or bust into the players we need them to become to win cups in our 2015-2020 window. I don't expect them all to grow this year, but I'm sure some of them will, and that's all we need. 4) The future Habs youth core will include a few of Jarred Tinordi, Nathan Beaulieu, Morgan Ellis, Louis Leblanc, Patrick Holland, Brendan Gallagher, Blake Geoffrion, Aaron Palushaj, Jonas Nattinen, Michael Bournival, Cedrick Desjardins, Greg Pateryn, Ian Schultz will grow together on the most talented Hamilton Bulldogs team of many years. They could make a serious run for the Calder cup, and I'm sure a few of these guys will join the big team in 2013 and beyond. 5) The 22 page thread that will appear on HFboards when Nathan Beaulieu gets to play 19 minutes spread over 2 games in a mini-callup to the Habs in December, and other threads like it. 6) Good hockey across the league. There are good teams in Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Vancouver and they will give us good playoff series to enjoy. 7) At the end of the season, Scott Gomez will only have 1 year left on his contract. 8) All those pieces will begin to payoff in the 2013-2014 season. In the summer of 2013, when more sheepish Habs fans type, due to muscle memory: "I think that for 2013-2014 the Habs will be able to compete for 8th place if they have zero injuries", us sober fans will be able to respond that: "even if the Habs have a typical amount of injuries, they should make the playoffs, and have the ability to make noise", and we'll mean it, and it will be a good feeling.
If, besides Bourque and the 2nd rounder, Patrick Holland works out, I wish the Habs had two more Cammalleris to trade to desperate teams. Thank you, Pierre Gauthier, for that coup.

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08-28-2012, 07:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yup, that was the analysis I put forth in the surgical tanking thread
hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1237081

Here are things that Habs have to look forward to this year, in no particular order:

1) High 1st rounder draft pick, as well as 3 2nd rounders in what analysts are calling the deepest draft since 2003. Possibly more draft picks if Bergevin has the wisdom to sell at the deadline.

2) Alex Galchenyuk playing 9 games at the start of the year, then dominating in the OHL, leading team USA at the world juniors, then possibly leading his team to a memorial cup run, then joining the Bulldogs at the end of the year. He's our best prospect since Guy Lafleur and he's going on a lot of adventures this year.

3) Watching Eller, Emelin, Desharnais, Subban, Pacioretty, Diaz, Weber, and White grow, hold, or bust into the players we need them to become to win cups in our 2015-2020 window. I don't expect them all to grow this year, but I'm sure some of them will, and that's all we need.

4) The future Habs youth core will include a few of Jarred Tinordi, Nathan Beaulieu, Morgan Ellis, Louis Leblanc, Patrick Holland, Brendan Gallagher, Blake Geoffrion, Aaron Palushaj, Jonas Nattinen, Michael Bournival, Cedrick Desjardins, Greg Pateryn, Ian Schultz will grow together on the most talented Hamilton Bulldogs team of many years. They could make a serious run for the Calder cup, and I'm sure a few of these guys will join the big team in 2013 and beyond.

5) The 22 page thread that will appear on HFboards when Nathan Beaulieu gets to play 19 minutes spread over 2 games in a mini-callup to the Habs in December, and other threads like it.

6) Good hockey across the league. There are good teams in Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Vancouver and they will give us good playoff series to enjoy.

7) At the end of the season, Scott Gomez will only have 1 year left on his contract.

8) All those pieces will begin to payoff in the 2013-2014 season. In the summer of 2013, when more sheepish Habs fans type, due to muscle memory: "I think that for 2013-2014 the Habs will be able to compete for 8th place if they have zero injuries", us sober fans will be able to respond that: "even if the Habs have a typical amount of injuries, they should make the playoffs, and have the ability to make noise", and we'll mean it, and it will be a good feeling.
I noticed you never mentioned Kristo, I haven't heard or read any update on Kristo, what's the 3 year plan/projections on this kid?

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08-28-2012, 07:53 PM
  #63
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I don't care what the Habs are doing this year, i just want a FULL 2012-2013 season. No freaking Lockout.

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08-28-2012, 08:04 PM
  #64
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I noticed you never mentioned Kristo, I haven't heard or read any update on Kristo, what's the 3 year plan/projections on this kid?
I merely forgot to mention Kristo. I'm not deliberately excluding him.

My impression is he did well last year, he progressed nicely, but that Habs fans are worried because next summer when he graduates he has the option to go UFA and sign with any team.

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08-28-2012, 08:09 PM
  #65
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So if all works out Kristo plays for Mtl in a few years....where would he fit on RW? better than Gallagher? better than Collberg? is Kristo a top 6?

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08-28-2012, 08:13 PM
  #66
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So if all works out Kristo plays for Mtl in a few years....where would he fit on RW? better than Gallagher? better than Collberg? is Kristo a top 6?
Kristo is probably the biggest unknown in the org as far as projection goes.

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08-28-2012, 08:15 PM
  #67
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ahhhh ....ok.....just wondering

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08-28-2012, 08:57 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I merely forgot to mention Kristo. I'm not deliberately excluding him.

My impression is he did well last year, he progressed nicely, but that Habs fans are worried because next summer when he graduates he has the option to go UFA and sign with any team.
I do not think that is true.

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08-28-2012, 11:08 PM
  #69
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I do not think that is true.
I've read this a few times myself (that it is in fact true).

For instance http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...his-off-season

(no idea how reliable that source is)

Pretty worrisome. For me, though, what really bothers me about him is that he was drafted in 2008 and has yet to play a pro game, and probably won't play one until October 2013, five years after being drafted. Now, don't get me wrong. I understand that each prospect has his own development curve. But that is a pretty long time for a forward, especially a forward who doesn't have a great two-way game.

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08-28-2012, 11:48 PM
  #70
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I do not think that is true.
Its completely true. People shouldn't freak out about it though. Its a reasonably common occurrence for a drafted player to go 4 years in college hockey and they rarely defect to free agency.

Its like how most European hockey players could have done what Erixon did last summer but don't. The vast majority of players are content to stay with their organizations.

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08-29-2012, 02:33 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Its completely true. People shouldn't freak out about it though. Its a reasonably common occurrence for a drafted player to go 4 years in college hockey and they rarely defect to free agency.

Its like how most European hockey players could have done what Erixon did last summer but don't. The vast majority of players are content to stay with their organizations.
what happened to erixon is one of karma's greatest success story

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09-01-2012, 05:09 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Yup, that was the analysis I put forth in the surgical tanking thread
hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1237081

Here are things that Habs have to look forward to this year, in no particular order:

1) High 1st rounder draft pick, as well as 3 2nd rounders in what analysts are calling the deepest draft since 2003. Possibly more draft picks if Bergevin has the wisdom to sell at the deadline.

2) Alex Galchenyuk playing 9 games at the start of the year, then dominating in the OHL, leading team USA at the world juniors, then possibly leading his team to a memorial cup run, then joining the Bulldogs at the end of the year. He's our best prospect since Guy Lafleur and he's going on a lot of adventures this year.

3) Watching Eller, Emelin, Desharnais, Subban, Pacioretty, Diaz, Weber, and White grow, hold, or bust into the players we need them to become to win cups in our 2015-2020 window. I don't expect them all to grow this year, but I'm sure some of them will, and that's all we need.

4) The future Habs youth core will include a few of Jarred Tinordi, Nathan Beaulieu, Morgan Ellis, Louis Leblanc, Patrick Holland, Brendan Gallagher, Blake Geoffrion, Aaron Palushaj, Jonas Nattinen, Michael Bournival, Cedrick Desjardins, Greg Pateryn, Ian Schultz will grow together on the most talented Hamilton Bulldogs team of many years. They could make a serious run for the Calder cup, and I'm sure a few of these guys will join the big team in 2013 and beyond.

5) The 22 page thread that will appear on HFboards when Nathan Beaulieu gets to play 19 minutes spread over 2 games in a mini-callup to the Habs in December, and other threads like it.

6) Good hockey across the league. There are good teams in Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Vancouver and they will give us good playoff series to enjoy.

7) At the end of the season, Scott Gomez will only have 1 year left on his contract.

8) All those pieces will begin to payoff in the 2013-2014 season. In the summer of 2013, when more sheepish Habs fans type, due to muscle memory: "I think that for 2013-2014 the Habs will be able to compete for 8th place if they have zero injuries", us sober fans will be able to respond that: "even if the Habs have a typical amount of injuries, they should make the playoffs, and have the ability to make noise", and we'll mean it, and it will be a good feeling.
Based current trends in Habs development and drafting, and if there is a season this year, and the Habs get one more chance at a top 5 pick, the change in this board in the next 2 years should be fascinating to see.

This board has never had a good team to discuss. So many current debates, and long running debates, will seem absurd or meaningless in 2 years.

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09-01-2012, 05:24 AM
  #73
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Even better D prospect the year after (Ekblad).. I suppose everyone wants to tank for him too?

I wan't the Habs back in the playoffs.. Last year was brutal. Best case scenario for me if they miss the playoffs : Barkov falls to us or we trade up a few spots to grab him. I don't see MTL getting another top 5 pick this year.
Not one poster who promotes high draft picks for one more year has ever said they would accept a bad team in 13-14. Not one.

I'd love one more top 5 pick, and would accept just this year out of the PO to get it. What you want is another first round exit and a 14th pick, to add to the 19 we've had since 1993.

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09-01-2012, 05:32 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
As explained in the surgical tanking thread:
hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1237081

That is extremely unlikely. There's a huge cohort of talent that will be competing in Hamilton this year: Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn, Nattinen, Leblanc, Gallagher, Holland, etc. Some of those players will begin trickling up to the big club for real in 2013-2014, along with possibly Kristo, Galchenyuk.

Once that happens the rebuilding window will be closed.
By the way: The term surgical tanking was perfectly apposite. I immediately took it to mean a quick, aggressive repair of a serious condition that cannot be repaired through therapeutic or other long term methods.

So many here failed to understand the analogy. There was no need for the very long thread that resulted.

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09-01-2012, 08:59 AM
  #75
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While I'm hoping for good hockey next season (hell, at this point, I should simply be hoping for hockey altogether), I've been preaching patience and no panic moves, so I'll be patient. I don't expect that much from this team. I still don't think we were as bad as our record showed last year, but probably not THAT much better. Somewhere between 5 to 10 points better, the latter bumping us up quite dramatically, I know. I just don't think we upgraded all that much, so yeah... We might be pushing for a playoff spot, but I won't get my hopes up. I'll be cheering regardless.

This coming up season, if it takes place, will be one of trials and errors I believe. It will be make or break for a lot of our players, and it will be testing grounds for some of our rookies. If indeed there is a season, I wouldn't be surprised if 4 or 5 of our top prospects end up playing a bunch of games, preparing the ground for 2013-2014.

So yeah, like it's been mentioned, I'm okay with whatever result next in 2012-2013, but I expect the team to do good in 2013-2014. I'd be very, very disappointed if things don't look up by the end of next season.

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