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Evander Kane Proposal Thread (keep it here)

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:22 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
That's just terrible.
Quantity over quality deal. From the looks of it, they are all frowned upon here on HFBoards, but sometimes, teams will do it.

Looking on the Devils roster, what would it take to get Kane? Don't include Henrique, Larsson, Kovalchuk, and Elias. Everyone else can be dealt..

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08-28-2012, 10:28 PM
  #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Quantity over quality deal. From the looks of it, they are all frowned upon here on HFBoards, but sometimes, teams will do it.

Looking on the Devils roster, what would it take to get Kane? Don't include Henrique, Larsson, Kovalchuk, and Elias. Everyone else can be dealt..
No Bolded....no Kane

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08-28-2012, 10:29 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Quantity over quality deal. From the looks of it, they are all frowned upon here on HFBoards, but sometimes, teams will do it.

Looking on the Devils roster, what would it take to get Kane? Don't include Henrique, Larsson, Kovalchuk, and Elias. Everyone else can be dealt..
Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer.

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08-28-2012, 10:33 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
No Bolded....no Kane
You would be foolish to think you'd get those types of players for Kane. The best you are going to get is someone like Read, as Philly can spare him because they have Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Wellwood, etc.

Those are practically the only good young players the Devils have, besides Josefson and Tedenby, that are NHL ready. You're not going to get players like that for Kane. Henrique had six less points in his rookie season than Kane had in his third full NHL season. Kane is overrated like crazy on here, the best you're going to get is an emerging top six player (Clarkson, Stalberg, Kadri, name another young second/third line player) maybe a good prospect, and a pick.

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08-28-2012, 10:34 PM
  #405
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Rangers trade

Hagelin Del Zotto Boyle Thomas and 2ed in 2013

Kane and Stuart

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08-28-2012, 10:37 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Rangers trade

Hagelin Del Zotto Boyle Thomas and 2ed in 2013

Kane and Stuart
Wow. It amazes me how absolutely overrated Kane is.

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08-28-2012, 10:37 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
You would be foolish to think you'd get those types of players for Kane. The best you are going to get is someone like Read, as Philly can spare him because they have Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Wellwood, etc.

Those are practically the only good young players the Devils have, besides Josefson and Tedenby, that are NHL ready. You're not going to get players like that for Kane. Henrique had six less points in his rookie season than Kane had in his third full NHL season. Kane is overrated like crazy on here, the best you're going to get is an emerging top six player (Clarkson, Stalberg, Kadri, name another young second/third line player) maybe a good prospect, and a pick.
Kane is still younger and more proven than Henrique. You're fooling yourself if you think you're getting Kane for scraps. This isn't the place for your hurt feelings either.

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08-28-2012, 10:40 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Kane is still younger and more proven than Henrique. You're fooling yourself if you think you're getting Kane for scraps. This isn't the place for your hurt feelings either.
You're also not getting guys like Henrique for Kane either.

The best deal you can probably get is

Kadri/Read+one of the better prospects, and a second, maybe first depending on who the player is. Even that is stretching it. Henrique's upside is pretty damn close to what Kane's is, obviously less, and Henrique is in an even more valuable position at center.

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08-28-2012, 10:44 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
You're also not getting guys like Henrique for Kane either.

The best deal you can probably get is

Kadri/Read+one of the better prospects, and a second, maybe first depending on who the player is. Even that is stretching it. Henrique's upside is pretty damn close to what Kane's is, and Henrique is in an even more valuable position at center.
You speak with too many absolutes, when in fact there's really no truth to your claims. You're not some insider or GM, so take a step back and be a fan just like the rest of us.

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08-28-2012, 10:49 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
You speak with too many absolutes, when in fact there's really no truth to your claims. You're not some insider or GM, so take a step back and be a fan just like the rest of us.
I'm being a realist...

Sure, Kane has the potential to be a top power forward. But that's merely potential. Kane is also pretty one-dimensional as well.

Look at what guys like Rick Nash fetched. Two second line players, a potential second pairing guy, and a first. That's for a proven 40g scoring power forward.

Bobby Ryan and Kane both don't deserve anywhere near the offers that people are willing to propose for them.

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08-28-2012, 10:54 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I'm being a realist...

Sure, Kane has the potential to be a top power forward. But that's merely potential. Kane is also pretty one-dimensional as well.

Look at what guys like Rick Nash fetched. Two second line players, a potential second pairing guy, and a first. That's for a proven 40g scoring power forward.

Bobby Ryan and Kane both don't deserve anywhere near the offers that people are willing to propose for them.
I can't agree that you're being a realist. You opinion is obviously biased, which tells all we need to know. You want to improve the Devils and could careless if the deal actually helps out Winnipeg. Nash is a poor comparison, since he held all the cards and Howson let it be known that he wanted out. That dropped his value. Kane is Winnipeg property and the Jets hold the cards when it comes to him (RFA). Also if you think Kane is so overrated, then why would you even want him on the Devils?

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08-28-2012, 11:01 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I'm being a realist...

Sure, Kane has the potential to be a top power forward. But that's merely potential. Kane is also pretty one-dimensional as well.

Look at what guys like Rick Nash fetched. Two second line players, a potential second pairing guy, and a first. That's for a proven 40g scoring power forward.

Bobby Ryan and Kane both don't deserve anywhere near the offers that people are willing to propose for them.
Oh god! There's.....there's just so much wrong with what you said.

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08-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I can't agree that you're being a realist. You opinion is obviously biased, which tells all we need to know. You want to improve the Devils and could careless if the deal actually helps out Winnipeg. Nash is a poor comparison, since he held all the cards and Howson let it be known that he wanted out. That dropped his value. Kane is Winnipeg property and the Jets hold the cards when it comes to him (RFA). Also if you think Kane is so overrated, then why would you even want him on the Devils?
I'm not even talking from wanting him on the Devils, obviously, it's going to take a hell of a deal to pry him away, but in my opinion, he's not worth it. He's not worth what it'll take for the Jets to trade him. In that sense, he's overrated based on the proposals here. If you think Nash is a bad comparable, than look at guys like Carter and Richards, both were by then proven 65-80 point guys. Proven being the main word. Both had first line upside and were still young and play center or wing and on affordable long-term deals.

Carter fetched Voracek, 8th overall pick, and a third.
Richards fetched B. Schenn and Simmonds.

Essentially, Carter got a top-six forward in the making, basically a guy like Read. A top 10 pick, and a third round pick. Richards got what seemed like a promising top six forward with first line potential and a third line power forward with potential to be a second line. You'd be hard pressed to say Kane should garner more than that. Looking at it now, those are both good trades, but at the time, they were at that time, exactly how depicted above.

Does Kane really have the pedigree to get returns equal to, if not better than those two players?

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08-28-2012, 11:14 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I'm not even talking from wanting him on the Devils, obviously, it's going to take a hell of a deal to pry him away, but in my opinion, he's not worth it. He's not worth what it'll take for the Jets to trade him. In that sense, he's overrated based on the proposals here. If you think Nash is a bad comparable, than look at guys like Carter and Richards, both were by then proven 65-80 point guys. Proven being the main word. Both had first line upside and were still young and play center or wing and on affordable long-term deals.

Carter fetched Voracek, 8th overall pick, and a third.
Richards fetched B. Schenn and Simmonds.

Essentially, Carter got a top-six forward in the making, basically a guy like Read. A top 10 pick, and a third round pick. Richards got what seemed like a promising top six forward with first line potential and a third line power forward with potential to be a second line. You'd be hard pressed to say Kane should garner more than that. Looking at it now, those are both good trades, but at the time, they were at that time, exactly how depicted above.

Does Kane really have the pedigree to get returns equal to, if not better than those two players?
I'm glad you mentioned your opinion, it's obviously different than mine, but I can still respect that it's yours.

I honestly think Kane has very high value (as do most of the posters in this thread). The Richards and Carter deals returned more than what was offered in that Devils deal. Also no offense to Read, but he's a 26 year old with 1 season under his belt, I'd rather see what he can do before comparing him to Simmonds or Voracek. The pick from Columbus was also a top 10 pick. The prospect from Philly (Schenn) was rated as 1 of the top prospects in all of hockey. There was also a 2012 2nd rounder included in the Richards deal. Both those deals were quality deals, with a lot of upside/potential. That Devils deal isn't even close to the value that Philly got back in return.

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08-28-2012, 11:19 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
I'm not even talking from wanting him on the Devils, obviously, it's going to take a hell of a deal to pry him away, but in my opinion, he's not worth it. He's not worth what it'll take for the Jets to trade him. In that sense, he's overrated based on the proposals here. If you think Nash is a bad comparable, than look at guys like Carter and Richards, both were by then proven 65-80 point guys. Proven being the main word. Both had first line upside and were still young and play center or wing and on affordable long-term deals.

Carter fetched Voracek, 8th overall pick, and a third.
Richards fetched B. Schenn and Simmonds.

Essentially, Carter got a top-six forward in the making, basically a guy like Read. A top 10 pick, and a third round pick. Richards got what seemed like a promising top six forward with first line potential and a third line power forward with potential to be a second line. You'd be hard pressed to say Kane should garner more than that. Looking at it now, those are both good trades, but at the time, they were at that time, exactly how depicted above.

Does Kane really have the pedigree to get returns equal to, if not better than those two players?
The funny thing is that you say Kane is over-rated but are over-rating everyone you are comparing him to.

You say Rick Nash is a proven 40 goal scorer and he's scored 40 only twice in nine years (40g and 41g) and his career GPG gives him about 35 goals in a year.

You say Richards and Carter were proven 65-80 point guys before they got traded when they had only averaged 63 points and 61 points a season respectively. Combined, they've only been on pace for 3 seasons over 80 points in 14 seasons.

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08-28-2012, 11:20 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
You would be foolish to think you'd get those types of players for Kane. The best you are going to get is someone like Read, as Philly can spare him because they have Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Wellwood, etc.

Those are practically the only good young players the Devils have, besides Josefson and Tedenby, that are NHL ready. You're not going to get players like that for Kane. Henrique had six less points in his rookie season than Kane had in his third full NHL season. Kane is overrated like crazy on here, the best you're going to get is an emerging top six player (Clarkson, Stalberg, Kadri, name another young second/third line player) maybe a good prospect, and a pick.
lolol..Henrique's 21yo rookie season to Kane's 20yo 3rd season. Kane is both better and younger than Henrique.

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08-28-2012, 11:22 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I'm glad you mentioned your opinion, it's obviously different than mine, but I can still respect that it's yours.

I honestly think Kane has very high value (as do most of the posters in this thread). The Richards and Carter deals returned more than what was offered in that Devils deal. Also no offense to Read, but he's a 26 year old with 1 season under his belt, I'd rather see what he can do before comparing him to Simmonds or Voracek. The pick from Columbus was also a top 10 pick. The prospect from Philly (Schenn) was rated as 1 of the top prospects in all of hockey. There was also a 2012 2nd rounder included in the Richards deal. Both those deals were quality deals, with a lot of upside/potential. That Devils deal isn't even close to the value that Philly got back in return.
I don't think that they will get back as much as proven guys did for Kane. All of those guys were still some pretty big question marks. Now, everything worked out beautifully for the Flyers, but a lot could've gone wrong. A lot of people thought Schenn was overhyped, Simmonds was a fringe second liner max. Voracek could've stalled, I could go on and on.

There was still a ton of question marks in that deal. That's the only way the Jets will get the value they want. They will have to take on some question marks and it could work or maybe it doesn't. For the Flyers it worked.

Read was more of a hypothetical, but I seriously think that's all other teams would be willing to muster up. Of course, some teams like the Kings can be willing to spare more than a team with a weaker prospect pool like the Devils would. Columbus and LA both had some pretty solid prospect pools when they did those respective deals. Those players were kind of replaceable in a way.

I guess we can just agree to disagree, but I still think Kane's overrated and the return people expect for him isn't going to happen.

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08-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
The funny thing is that you say Kane is over-rated but are over-rating everyone you are comparing him to.

You say Rick Nash is a proven 40 goal scorer and he's scored 40 only twice in nine years (40g and 41g) and his career GPG gives him about 35 goals in a year.

You say Richards and Carter were proven 65-80 point guys before they got traded when they had only averaged 63 points and 61 points a season respectively.
Kane's also had one thirty goal season, one season of 50+ points. Richards and Carter had, at that time, after there first two initiation season, established themselves as 65 point players. Kane hasn't really established anything. Nash is still a guy you can expect 35-40 goals out of year in and year out. Kane is still a question mark.

Just think he won't get the return that people expect, that's all.

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08-28-2012, 11:30 PM
  #419
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lolol..Henrique's 21yo rookie season to Kane's 20yo 3rd season. Kane is both better and younger than Henrique.
It was still his rookie season. Kane's had a couple seasons under his belt. At this point, point-wise they are pretty much at the same stage. Kane obviously has a higher ceiling, but that's still all a glaring question mark. Like I've been saying, I just don't see how he can warrant the return that people seem to think he is worth.

Similarly, Voracek had 38 points in his 19yr old rookie season and 50 in his sophomore season, and 46 in his third season. He was still only packaged in a deal for Carter. Not too far off from Kane's numbers, Kane was more of a late bloomer though. I'm just failing to see what other people see.

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08-28-2012, 11:36 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
It was still his rookie season. Kane's had a couple seasons under his belt. At this point, point-wise they are pretty much at the same stage. Kane obviously has a higher ceiling, but that's still all a glaring question mark. Like I've been saying, I just don't see how he can warrant the return that people seem to think he is worth.

Similarly, Voracek had 38 points in his 19yr old rookie season and 50 in his sophomore season, and 46 in his third season. He was still only packaged in a deal for Carter. Not too far off from Kane's numbers, Kane was more of a late bloomer though. I'm just failing to see what other people see.
The true reason his value is so high, is because Winnipeg doesn't actually need to trade him. He's a young star in the making and has shown improvement each and every year. Winnipeg needs top line players and Kane's age a skill set fit in very well with the Jets young roster.

Henrique also played with a lot better linemates (Kovy, Parise) than Kane (Wellwood, Burmi, etc). Once he has quality linemates his numbers should soar.

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08-28-2012, 11:40 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
The true reason his value is so high, is because Winnipeg doesn't actually need to trade him. He's a young star in the making and has shown improvement each and every year. Winnipeg needs top line players and Kane's age a skill set fit in very well with the Jets young roster.
But teams wouldn't realistically pay for the value put on him by Jets and their fans. The value he has to other teams is a ton less than what he has to the Jets. He doesn't have as much value to other teams, they see him just like I see him, a young guy with top line potential, but potential is the big thing. I don't think teams want to package prime guys for potential. They will give it for the real deal (Carter, Richards, etc.) but not for potential.

Simply said, he's not going to be traded.

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08-28-2012, 11:42 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
You would be foolish to think you'd get those types of players for Kane. The best you are going to get is someone like Read, as Philly can spare him because they have Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Simmonds, Wellwood, etc.

Those are practically the only good young players the Devils have, besides Josefson and Tedenby, that are NHL ready. You're not going to get players like that for Kane. Henrique had six less points in his rookie season than Kane had in his third full NHL season. Kane is overrated like crazy on here, the best you're going to get is an emerging top six player (Clarkson, Stalberg, Kadri, name another young second/third line player) maybe a good prospect, and a pick.
Lol, henrique is a year older than Kane, and barely put up half the goals Kane did this season. I love henrique and all, but talk about cherry picking facts. Kane >> henrique.

If you think the best players that will come back for Kane are dudes like Matt Read or Viktor Stalberg, you are pretty ignorant to Kane's value. Go look up 20 year old 30 goal scorers to see the company he's in.

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08-28-2012, 11:46 PM
  #423
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Calling Kane 1 dimensional too?
*sigh*

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08-28-2012, 11:48 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
The true reason his value is so high, is because Winnipeg doesn't actually need to trade him. He's a young star in the making and has shown improvement each and every year. Winnipeg needs top line players and Kane's age a skill set fit in very well with the Jets young roster.

Henrique also played with a lot better linemates (Kovy, Parise) than Kane (Wellwood, Burmi, etc). Once he has quality linemates his numbers should soar.
Henrique played on a pretty putrid second PP unit. Barely had any PP points, most of his points were even strength against the toughest competition and a good portion came shorthanded, 7 points I believe. He is probably the only center that ever made Kovalchuk and Parise look good on the same line too.

I am going to assume Kane had a hefty amount of first unit PP time and PP points, and played against lesser competition as well. Nevertheless, like I said, value just isn't there for other teams.

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08-28-2012, 11:50 PM
  #425
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Calling Kane 1 dimensional too?
*sigh*
"Pretty one-dimensional"

His game isn't as well-rounded as some other guys are, specifically a guy like Henrique. To the other post, Kane might be better than Henrique now and have higher potential, but why would the Devils do that deal? All it is is potential, teams don't pay so much for potential. Potential is usually put into a trade for a better more established player.

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