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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2012-2013 Season III

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Old
08-28-2012, 03:28 PM
  #276
Herby
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Oh and I just bought a 47" TV that will be used for watching football every Saturday and Sunday this Fall/Winter. I'm sure I'll come back to the NHL just like a crack ***** goes to her pimp but I hope that if and when the NHL does return, their revenue stream is effected. They deserve some punishment from the fans for this because that is the party they aren't factoring in at the negotiating table. The owners don't exist without the players. The players don't exist without the owners. NEITHER exist without the fans.
No one other than the diehards are going to miss it.

Even guys like us, who definitely would be considered diehards can watch football on Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Casual fans don't even start to care about the NHL and NBA until the College Bowl Season and Superbowl are over.

The owners know they are better off having no regular season than losing money under the current system, they are banking on fans returning for a stretch drive and into the playoffs, like the NBA did. It worked for the NBA but it's still a big gamble for the NHL.

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08-28-2012, 04:46 PM
  #277
Rusty Batch
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What difference does it make whether they bought the team as a business or as a hobby? They bought the team and they have a right to try to not lose money by providing entertainment for us.

I'm just tired of this 99% bull ****.
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Agreed 100%. It's amazing how being successful is used against you in today's society. OMG! he's a millionaire, he is evil, he must have made his money at my expense!!!

And just because sports owners are millionaires does not mean they should be expected to lose tens of millions of dollars so people like us can enjoy hockey.

And to answer the other guy, no there aren't people lined up to buy sports franchises, maybe the Yankees, Lakers, Dodgers and Canadiens, but not the average teams. Alot of people lost alot of wealth over the past few years.
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
You and me both brother. People just seem to not get it. Not to make this political, but the scapegoating of modern society is pretty sad. People hate seeing others successful. If they are it must be because they cheated...cause i'm not successful.

It's garbage and it's everywhere.
Wow. LOL. Talk about dying to connect some dots and throw your political agenda out there...

Slow down guys, I said nothing that would validate these crazy political/belief/society assumptions you are making about me.

The fact is people buy many of these teams knowing they will lose money, and then turn around and lockout the league because they are LOSING money. These aren't purchases made for making money, they are purchases made to have fun and live out a childhood dream. IT is not the same thing as trying to make money.

Fact is in order to have all of that fun, sometimes there is a cost, these guys know that when they purchase the teams, they know it when they hand out the contracts, etc...

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08-28-2012, 05:29 PM
  #278
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Took a look over the Sports Forecaster Hockey Pool book, and it seems they've jumped aboard the Kings bandwagon. They have them 1st in the West, with Kopitar winning the Hart, Quick winning the Vezina and Doughty as a Norris finalist next season.

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08-28-2012, 05:31 PM
  #279
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
The fact is people buy many of these teams knowing they will lose money, and then turn around and lockout the league because they are LOSING money. These aren't purchases made for making money, they are purchases made to have fun and live out a childhood dream. IT is not the same thing as trying to make money.
I don't think it is that simple. The rich don't feel they need to support the "poor" or whatever you want to call the smaller revenue teams. Also, maybe some of them though they might lose a few million a year and are losing tens of millions which is a big difference.

Financially viable franchises make the league stronger. Sitting there and saying "they signed up to lose money" is shortsighted at best. If they continue to lose money, the franchises will eventually be devalued and so will the rest of the league.

I think part of the problem is the owners may have botched the 2004-05 agreement. It doesn't seem to take into consideration that while the league revenue may grow, smaller market teams' revenue is not growing as much, remaining static or probably even shrinking in some cases. The money isn't trickling down to the smaller franchises and that appears to be the biggest issue here. How do you keep 30 teams in the league and make them ALL viable? They might be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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08-28-2012, 05:40 PM
  #280
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And I do think it is just a bit ironic that the Kings finally win the Cup and are poised to bring their entire team back which may be unprecedented in the post lockout era and there is probably going to be a work stoppage at minimum. On the flipside, at least the Kings won and didn't lose in the conference final or SCF so we're all sitting here wondering what they might do with a full season under Sutter etc.

If there is a bet somewhere on if the CBA will be resolved before the deadline, I'd like to put some cash up on no because I have zero faith that will happen.

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08-28-2012, 06:01 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Took a look over the Sports Forecaster Hockey Pool book, and it seems they've jumped aboard the Kings bandwagon. They have them 1st in the West, with Kopitar winning the Hart, Quick winning the Vezina and Doughty as a Norris finalist next season.
There is absolutely no way this happens. How can your 1C be the most valuable to his team league-wide if you also have the best goalie and a top 3 D. Sports writers need to think before they write there things.

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08-28-2012, 06:03 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Wow. LOL. Talk about dying to connect some dots and throw your political agenda out there...

Slow down guys, I said nothing that would validate these crazy political/belief/society assumptions you are making about me.

The fact is people buy many of these teams knowing they will lose money, and then turn around and lockout the league because they are LOSING money. These aren't purchases made for making money, they are purchases made to have fun and live out a childhood dream. IT is not the same thing as trying to make money.

Fact is in order to have all of that fun, sometimes there is a cost, these guys know that when they purchase the teams, they know it when they hand out the contracts, etc...
Rich people are (Rich ) for a reason.

They don't go into ANY investment looking to lose money Long-term.

A Sports franchise is bought to MAKE money. That is a major reason people buy them.

Now there might be some rich Fan that loves his team (Buffalo) and is willing to take a loss....

But even that type of owner, will look to make a profit down the road.

There is a reason it's taken so long to find a really stable owner for PHX. That team is a GIANT money pit, it has no long term earning potential.

The stable rich people that did want to buy it , were told they had to keep the team in PHX. Thus those people didn't buy it. The Yotes are only valued at 150mill ?

That's peanuts for a sports franchise. No really rich, successful person wants to buy it ..... Hmmm wonder why...


Last edited by damacles1156: 08-28-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
08-28-2012, 06:45 PM
  #283
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
Wow. LOL. Talk about dying to connect some dots and throw your political agenda out there...

Slow down guys, I said nothing that would validate these crazy political/belief/society assumptions you are making about me.

The fact is people buy many of these teams knowing they will lose money, and then turn around and lockout the league because they are LOSING money. These aren't purchases made for making money, they are purchases made to have fun and live out a childhood dream. IT is not the same thing as trying to make money.

Fact is in order to have all of that fun, sometimes there is a cost, these guys know that when they purchase the teams, they know it when they hand out the contracts, etc...
You think Uncle Phil bought the Kings for his love of hockey? Some owners have bought their teams for that reason, but they can't sustain losses year after year. I don't see why the owner of any business should have to pay his employees to the point of losing money, including pro sports owners.

I can assure you that not a single owner in the NFL got into it thinking he was going to lose money.

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Old
08-28-2012, 09:40 PM
  #284
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
Ha... fight blanket statement with blanket statement. It's garbage and it's everywhere 99% and 1%
le sigh



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Old
08-28-2012, 09:49 PM
  #285
tsanuri
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
You think Uncle Phil bought the Kings for his love of hockey? Some owners have bought their teams for that reason, but they can't sustain losses year after year. I don't see why the owner of any business should have to pay his employees to the point of losing money, including pro sports owners.

I can assure you that not a single owner in the NFL got into it thinking he was going to lose money.
I agree but the ,NFL is the wrong league to look at. They are the only league that makes payroll on their TV contract alone. I am not sure it is actually possible to lose money in the NFL. Where MLB, NBA. and NHL are all gate driven.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:39 PM
  #286
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In finance there's almost always loopholes. If owners don't show some fiscal restraint, then money problems will probably comeback to haunt the NHL once again even with a new CBA in place.

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08-28-2012, 11:41 PM
  #287
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
In finance there's almost always loopholes. If owners don't show some fiscal restraint, then money problems will probably comeback to haunt the NHL once again even with a new CBA in place.
Yup. And it wasn't every gm or owner. It was like....4 or 5 that cause the **** to start falling in on itself.

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08-29-2012, 01:25 AM
  #288
KINGS17
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Yup. And it wasn't every gm or owner. It was like....4 or 5 that cause the **** to start falling in on itself.
...which is why it has been proven that yes, the owners do need a CBA that protects them from themselves. Without one there is always a GM or team owner dumb enough to circumvent the rules and as soon as it happens others will follow.

You can't just say, "Well the GMs should practice fiscal restraint.", because fiscal restraint doesn't mean jack to teams like the Flyers, Rangers, or Leafs. Besides if the GMs acted in concert it would be collusion.

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08-29-2012, 01:33 AM
  #289
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Hammond is right on.

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08-29-2012, 10:49 AM
  #290
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News from Russia.
King's prospect Maxim Kitsyn was traded from "Metallurg" (Novokuznetsk) to "Torpedo" (Nizhniy Novgorod). Hope hе will play better in the new team. At least he will get respectable ice time. Because last season was a disaster.

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08-29-2012, 12:34 PM
  #291
Jason Lewis
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Huge huge step by the NHL in the latest proposal.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...-proposal.html


I mean, it's not ideal to what the NHLPA wants....but it's closer, and it's a concession by the NHL. I mean, maybe...just MAYBE because the NHLPA got the NHL to blink first..we'll get some good movement in the next couple days.

I'm hopeful.

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08-29-2012, 12:44 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Huge huge step by the NHL in the latest proposal.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...-proposal.html


I mean, it's not ideal to what the NHLPA wants....but it's closer, and it's a concession by the NHL. I mean, maybe...just MAYBE because the NHLPA got the NHL to blink first..we'll get some good movement in the next couple days.

I'm hopeful.
The Kings (and the 15 other teams above $58 million) better hope for cap amnesty for next season. Otherwise, the Kings have to get rid of more than $4 million in cap hits for next season.

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08-29-2012, 12:45 PM
  #293
Jason Lewis
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The Kings (and the 15 other teams above $58 million) better hope for cap amnesty for next season. Otherwise, the Kings have to get rid of more than $4 million in cap hits for next season.
Simon Gagne, Kevin Westgarth, Clifford to minors. Done and done.

But regardless...I think the magic number is $60 mil. It'd be too messy if the made teams have to shed right now. So either we'll get a year of cap amnesty or a counter proposal with the cap just above what it is now.

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08-29-2012, 12:51 PM
  #294
Vic Vinegar
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Simon Gagne, Kevin Westgarth, Clifford to minors. Done and done.

But regardless...I think the magic number is $60 mil. It'd be too messy if the made teams have to shed right now. So either we'll get a year of cap amnesty or a counter proposal with the cap just above what it is now.
Isn't Clifford waiver-eligible? If so, he would get picked up by another team almost immediately.

Dropping Gagne alone should be enough to get under 58 million. There have got to be teams out there willing to give up a pick for him. EDIT: Whoops, for some reason I thought Gagne's cap hit was 4.5. So I guess drop Westgarth and Richardson along with him.

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08-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #295
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
Isn't Clifford waiver-eligible? If so, he would get picked up by another team almost immediately.

Dropping Gagne alone should be enough to get under 58 million. There have got to be teams out there willing to give up a pick for him.
Yeeaaaa we'd have to start him in the minors before the season and waivers go into effect and pretty much leave him there all year. I'd be okay with that though honestly. If there was one player who needed a full year of confidence building AHL play it's Kyle Clifford.

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08-29-2012, 12:58 PM
  #296
Vic Vinegar
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Yeeaaaa we'd have to start him in the minors before the season and waivers go into effect and pretty much leave him there all year. I'd be okay with that though honestly. If there was one player who needed a full year of confidence building AHL play it's Kyle Clifford.
I don't know, dropping him down to the AHL after two full seasons in the NHL might have the opposite effect on his confidence.

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08-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #297
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Isn't Clifford waiver-eligible? If so, he would get picked up by another team almost immediately.
Perhaps, but maybe not -- there are 16 teams over the proposed cap limit, all of them dumping players to become cap compliant.

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08-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #298
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Perhaps, but maybe not -- there are 16 teams over the proposed cap limit, all of them dumping players to become cap compliant.
That still leaves 14 teams that could easily afford his cap hit. And really there doesn't even need to be that many, because I don't think there's a shot in hell Burke would pass up the opportunity to get a player like Clifford for free.

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08-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #299
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I hope the PA proposes a higher cap hit by a few million. Even if those 3 guys are dropped you have to replace them.

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08-29-2012, 01:12 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by DimMak187 View Post
That still leaves 14 teams that could easily afford his cap hit. And really there doesn't even need to be that many, because I don't think there's a shot in hell Burke would pass up the opportunity to get a player like Clifford for free.
Good point, you're right.

I really can't see the cap being set that low without salary rollbacks of some description - not with that many teams above the cap. I'm sure they'll devise some scheme to help teams get compliant.

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