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Old
08-29-2012, 02:12 AM
  #201
SolidSnakeUS
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The non-rollback idea is completely full of ****. I feel like Jamison (Phoenix) literally got on his hands and knees and prayed for something like this, so that all the teams with players HAVE to trade to teams like his, plus he refuses to even go up against the current cap floor...

50-50 is fine. Lowering the salary cap a bit, whatever. Not rolling back salaries with the reduced cap is full of ****. Flyers would have to unload 9M in cap for the season. Boston 11M, Wild 11M, Nucks 10M, Flames 9M, Sharks 7M, etc. That is a **** ton of salary to move. Seriously owners, wise the **** up and realize this isn't going to work. If anything, it will create a bigger headache than you realize.

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08-29-2012, 06:57 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
The non-rollback idea is completely full of ****. I feel like Jamison (Phoenix) literally got on his hands and knees and prayed for something like this, so that all the teams with players HAVE to trade to teams like his, plus he refuses to even go up against the current cap floor...

50-50 is fine. Lowering the salary cap a bit, whatever. Not rolling back salaries with the reduced cap is full of ****. Flyers would have to unload 9M in cap for the season. Boston 11M, Wild 11M, Nucks 10M, Flames 9M, Sharks 7M, etc. That is a **** ton of salary to move. Seriously owners, wise the **** up and realize this isn't going to work. If anything, it will create a bigger headache than you realize.



50-50 is that where it's at? i thought it was 52-48, its alot better then the 43 was initially, its pretty much even now as far as split give or take a few precentages.

bottom line whats everyones gut feeling? if anything they both have found a platform to build on, the rev split weather tis 50-50 or 52-48. so atleast they have something now.

so it is going to come down to salary cap, what is or isnt granfathered in or prehaps some amnesty.

my feeling heading into day is, the NHL PA will not accept this deal, but will take the rev split and build from there.

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08-29-2012, 07:23 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
50-50 is that where it's at? i thought it was 52-48, its alot better then the 43 was initially, its pretty much even now as far as split give or take a few precentages.

bottom line whats everyones gut feeling? if anything they both have found a platform to build on, the rev split weather tis 50-50 or 52-48. so atleast they have something now.

so it is going to come down to salary cap, what is or isnt granfathered in or prehaps some amnesty.

my feeling heading into day is, the NHL PA will not accept this deal, but will take the rev split and build from there.
Well, I think, given that we're still three weeks out, there's no way the NHLPA accepts this deal.

I also don't think the owners have presented a serious offer yet, to be honest. Trimming a few percentage points back in the split--fine, but asking the players to take a haircut at a time when the league is brining in more money than ever before seems a bit disingenuous. Dropping the cap to a number that would screw 16 teams also rings a little hollow.

I think its revealing that the owner's haven't yet guaranteed the existing paychecks--regardless of the movement of the cap. Until that point, I think we can pretty much read everything as pure posturing--and, frankly, if we know that, Fehr and the NHLPA knows it, so the NHL is just wasting everyone's time at this point.

I just don't see how the current deal is that bad, in its fundamentals, for the owners as a whole. Could the cap ceiling / floor be tweaked? Sure. Do some adjustments need to be made in the overall split to account for the scale of the money now coming in? I guess--but it seems to me that the superstar players have done more to increase interest in hockey than the owners, and I don't see why they shouldn't get a cut of the money that came out of it. A starting offer that asks the players to take a 20 percent cut in their share, in this context, is just silly--particularly when everyone knows that the NBC / Comcast contract is kicking in unprecedented cash.

Greedy ****s.

End rant.

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08-29-2012, 07:54 AM
  #204
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Is it possible that with the lower cap they don't roll back the salaries, but they roll back the cap hits? All existing contracts are subject to this, all new ones stay as they are.

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08-29-2012, 08:01 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Flyers would have to unload 9M in cap for the season. Boston 11M, Wild 11M, Nucks 10M, Flames 9M, Sharks 7M, etc. That is a **** ton of salary to move. Seriously owners, wise the **** up and realize this isn't going to work. If anything, it will create a bigger headache than you realize.
We would not. Our numbers are over-inflated by Pronger and rookie bonuses that essentially would not count against the cap. There's been no word that they're changing bonus procedure.

I can's speak for those other teams though.

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08-29-2012, 08:18 AM
  #206
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We would not. Our numbers are over-inflated by Pronger and rookie bonuses that essentially would not count against the cap. There's been no word that they're changing bonus procedure.

I can's speak for those other teams though.
Boston has Savard (LTIR) and Thomas (over 35) included--so depending on what happens with those two issues, they might not have a problem either.

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08-29-2012, 08:20 AM
  #207
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Is it possible that with the lower cap they don't roll back the salaries, but they roll back the cap hits? All existing contracts are subject to this, all new ones stay as they are.
That's an interesting idea, I hope that is what they mean by roll back the cap.


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08-29-2012, 08:23 AM
  #208
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Boston has Savard (LTIR) and Thomas (over 35) included--so depending on what happens with those two issues, they might not have a problem either.
Thomas counts against the cap, no?

He is over 35, so he counts against the cap as long as he isn't on LTIR right?

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08-29-2012, 08:26 AM
  #209
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Thomas counts against the cap, no?

He is over 35, so he counts against the cap as long as he isn't on LTIR right?
Assuming they don't change the rule, yes.

But if they make some change to the 35+ rule, I'm not sure what would happen. Or if there is a one-time buyout option, he'd be a logical candidate, etc.

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08-29-2012, 08:49 AM
  #210
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I think a major sticking point that some folks are missing here is the fact that a 52-48 split in favor of the players is still VERY misleading.

The NHL wants to redefine HRR. Which means they want to carve out some of what they deem not HRR that the players deem HRR.

As such if the 3.2 billion that they generated last year is (split 1.664 to the players and 1.536 to the owners) reduced to 2.7 billion(assumed number), the players stand to lose 260 million. and that is based on a 52-48 split.

The NHLPA got 57% of that 3.2 (1.824 billion) The reduction is ACTUALLY 400+ million.

I think that a modest and steady decrease in the cut of the pie is warranted.

A 1.5% cut per year for the first three years, followed by a .5% cut for the next three years followed by a fixed split of 51-49 for 4 years to the players.

This would ensure that the owners get what they want, the players would still get paid large amounts and the fans would have Hockey for 10 interrupted seasons.

The term HRR and all that that encompases would remain the same.

Based on the 3.2 number, the owners currently rake in 1.376. The first year of the deal would see that increase to 1.424 billion, the 2nd year to 1.472 billion, the 3rd year to 1.52 billion.

Keep in mind that this is using a flat 3.2 billion in annual revenue. In the last CBA, league wide revenue grew over a billion during the course of that 6 year time frame (160 million per season)

I personally believe that there needs to be a more meaningful revenue sharing plan in place as no matter what happens, the revenue generated by the Rangers and Flyers will far out produce that of the smaller market teams and there's no CAP system in place that can fix that.


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08-29-2012, 09:18 AM
  #211
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The notion that superstar players do more to grow the game than owners is off go me. With out the league the great players would just be hockey players and not hockey stars. Advertising, leasing venues to play in, cutting paychecks...that's all essential stuff to the league operating. If you ditched every star in the league, sent em to siberia to hunt mommoths for a decade, there'd be new stars in two seasons time. The game makes its own stars.

Granted the best players become the stars and good on unemployed hot working to get there, but the game us bigger than the 45 or so best players.

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08-29-2012, 10:00 AM
  #212
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That argument is basically chicken or the egg though.

For example:

What makes the rate of NHLers born in the Philadelphia and suburban Philadelphia regions climb?

Is it Ed Snider for getting Eric Lindros?

Is it Lindros and the Legion of Doom inspiring kids across the area?

Or is it Snider creating programs who people who saw Lindros play to then take up hockey themselves?

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08-29-2012, 10:09 AM
  #213
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Amnesty clause eh?

So do you buy out Bryzgalov and go with Leighton as your starter?

I'm so disappointed to say that I'm legitimately considering it, but I am.
I don't want Bryz's contract for the next 8 years, but I think they struggle to make the playoffs with Leighton.

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08-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
The notion that superstar players do more to grow the game than owners is off go me. With out the league the great players would just be hockey players and not hockey stars. Advertising, leasing venues to play in, cutting paychecks...that's all essential stuff to the league operating. If you ditched every star in the league, sent em to siberia to hunt mommoths for a decade, there'd be new stars in two seasons time. The game makes its own stars.

Granted the best players become the stars and good on unemployed hot working to get there, but the game us bigger than the 45 or so best players.
Some fair points, but it seems to me that there are a few reasons that Pittsburgh and Washington keep showing up on NBC's Sunday afternoon broadcast, and it isn't about the size of the television markets in those areas.

I don't necessarily credit the stars with growing the game by themselves--not by a long-shot, actually. But I do think that they deserve some of the credit for the new TV deal.

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08-29-2012, 10:32 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
The notion that superstar players do more to grow the game than owners is off go me. With out the league the great players would just be hockey players and not hockey stars. Advertising, leasing venues to play in, cutting paychecks...that's all essential stuff to the league operating. If you ditched every star in the league, sent em to siberia to hunt mommoths for a decade, there'd be new stars in two seasons time. The game makes its own stars.

Granted the best players become the stars and good on unemployed hot working to get there, but the game us bigger than the 45 or so best players.
The players make the league what it is. Transplant the players all into the KHL and call up everyone in the AHL and see what league the fans will watch. The balance of power would shift to the KHL. The idea that the league could replace their stars in 2 years is laughable.

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08-29-2012, 10:52 AM
  #216
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There is no way I go into a regular season with Leighton as the Flyers starter without having a young goalie you're banking on developing. Bryzgalov's contract sucks, but not as much as Leighton does.

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08-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #217
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Gonna bookmark Haute Couturier's post about him not wanting Bryz's contract. He'll be a hell of a lot better this year and he will love him again.

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08-29-2012, 11:43 AM
  #218
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Gonna bookmark Haute Couturier's post about him not wanting Bryz's contract. He'll be a hell of a lot better this year and he will love him again.
You do know his contract lasts long past next year, right? It lasts well past the average goalie's productive prime.

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08-29-2012, 11:53 AM
  #219
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You do know his contract lasts long past next year, right? It lasts well past the average goalie's productive prime.
When he wins a cup, it will be worth it.

Notice it's not if he wins a cup.

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08-29-2012, 12:00 PM
  #220
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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

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One thing for sure..it is a known known that Leighton sucks!

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08-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #221
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1pm, no news yet. I been searching twitter, TSN,

looks like they are still meeting hard in NYC?

the one thing i keep hearing is fehr wants to see some of the books right? NHL won't show him anything and i think he is pissed off with them.

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08-29-2012, 12:14 PM
  #222
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Gonna bookmark Haute Couturier's post about him not wanting Bryz's contract. He'll be a hell of a lot better this year and he will love him again.
that isnt going to far out on a limb consitering how below average he was outside of March and in the playoffs.
I just want him to be consistant. playing .890 one month and .925 the next wont cut it for me.

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08-29-2012, 12:19 PM
  #223
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I assume it would apply to current contracts, and perhaps not to new contracts. Maybe.

I have no idea. It all sounds very mathular and financey.
"Mathular" is now part of my vocabulary.

I suppose that "contractual practices" could be an allusion to an amnesty clause (as Philoudelphia mentioned) or to easing restrictions on 35+ contracts, and will probably also include a bonus cushion. Chris' salary breakdown, with the cushion in mind and sans Pronger's contract, was eye-opening.

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08-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #224
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1pm, no news yet. I been searching twitter, TSN,

looks like they are still meeting hard in NYC?

the one thing i keep hearing is fehr wants to see some of the books right? NHL won't show him anything and i think he is pissed off with them.
Looks like they are meeting at 2 pm

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08-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #225
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When he wins a cup, it will be worth it.

Notice it's not if he wins a cup.
I noticed it and I'm laughing.

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