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Old
08-27-2012, 09:26 AM
  #76
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I'm happy I still have the link for streams in my PM box that I forget who here gave me when I went on vacation back in February.

If we have hockey this year, I hope that site will still work.

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08-27-2012, 10:04 AM
  #77
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Not gonna lie ... I'll be watching and going to games when I can. And I'll still buy merchandise, too.

Although, I am gearing up for watching KHL and any other EU leagues I can get streams for. Somehow, my son wound up with all the Rosetta Stone software. So, I'm starting to learn Russian and refreshing my German. If that goes well, I might take a stab at Swedish. We'll see. So, if nothing else, at least the potential lock out will have had at least a marginal benefit for me

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08-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #78
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Not gonna lie ... I'll be watching and going to games when I can. And I'll still buy merchandise, too.

Although, I am gearing up for watching KHL and any other EU leagues I can get streams for. Somehow, my son wound up with all the Rosetta Stone software. So, I'm starting to learn Russian and refreshing my German. If that goes well, I might take a stab at Swedish. We'll see. So, if nothing else, at least the potential lock out will have had at least a marginal benefit for me

Let me know if you need lessons

My SEL team games start next monday. Oorah!

European Trophy games have been playing, which is like a prolonged pre-season tournament.


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08-27-2012, 10:37 AM
  #79
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Can anyone think of a time that the NHL didn't have teams in trouble? You have to go back to the original 6 era.

Thats kind of sickening. From the Seals to the Yotes, the NHL has been downright screwy and run like a roller derby league.

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08-27-2012, 11:40 AM
  #80
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Let me know if you need lessons

My SEL team games start next monday. Oorah!

European Trophy games have been playing, which is like a prolonged pre-season tournament.
Careful ... I just might take you up on that At least the everyday stuff, since most languages you learn the proper form, which nobody really speaks

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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Can anyone think of a time that the NHL didn't have teams in trouble? You have to go back to the original 6 era.

Thats kind of sickening. From the Seals to the Yotes, the NHL has been downright screwy and run like a roller derby league.
I don't think that's exclusive to the NHL. Both the NFL and MLB have had teams sold and moved, at least. The Browns are the first team that comes to mind ... this is their second incarnation, isn't it?

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08-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #81
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Careful ... I just might take you up on that At least the everyday stuff, since most languages you learn the proper form, which nobody really speaks
Just drop a PM and we'll get going

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08-27-2012, 03:36 PM
  #82
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Just drop a PM and we'll get going
I am actually starting my Norwegian lessons today. Word on the street is that after getting Norwegian to a decent level, I'll be able to converse with Swedes.

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08-27-2012, 04:14 PM
  #83
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I am actually starting my Norwegian lessons today. Word on the street is that after getting Norwegian to a decent level, I'll be able to converse with Swedes.
Absolutley, swedish danish and Norwegian are (as I'm sure you're aware ) very closely related. Most swedish people have an easier time with norwegian though. It's really not that much of a difference. The difficulty with Danish is the pronunciation they have which makes it hard to snap up what they say, but once you get past that the words are just about the same. Same thing goes for norwegian but they have an much easier an proniunciation. Sure there's the odd word and they way that sentences are spoken. For me personally I find norwegian very charming.

And we all get to make fun of the Finns, which is always a lot of fun. Though Finland and Sweden share a special bond due to history, we might enjoy it a bit more

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08-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #84
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Careful ... I just might take you up on that At least the everyday stuff, since most languages you learn the proper form, which nobody really speaks



I don't think that's exclusive to the NHL. Both the NFL and MLB have had teams sold and moved, at least. The Browns are the first team that comes to mind ... this is their second incarnation, isn't it?
To be honest I don't know much about the other sports except, as a league, the NHL is behind them. They get to do "trial runs" in areas simply because they can afford to. The NHL has almost no room for error.

If the NHL is going to take risks at least let them be calculated risks. Atlanta gets a team twice and the NHL never explores Seatle or Milwaukee?

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08-28-2012, 11:36 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
Careful ... I just might take you up on that At least the everyday stuff, since most languages you learn the proper form, which nobody really speaks



I don't think that's exclusive to the NHL. Both the NFL and MLB have had teams sold and moved, at least. The Browns are the first team that comes to mind ... this is their second incarnation, isn't it?

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To be honest I don't know much about the other sports except, as a league, the NHL is behind them. They get to do "trial runs" in areas simply because they can afford to. The NHL has almost no room for error.

If the NHL is going to take risks at least let them be calculated risks. Atlanta gets a team twice and the NHL never explores Seatle or Milwaukee?
First off I love foreign languages so kudos to you if you're serious about learning swedish.

I'm not sure about the Browns having a reincarnation, but I do know the Colts have moved at least once from Baltimore. The Titans from Houston etc etc I'm sure there are more examples. but i agree whole heartedly that Atlanta shouldn't even be considered for a hockey team before other northern cities, I'd love to see Indianapolis with one That being said I realize that there are way better options.

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08-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #86
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There is a difference with football franchises moving vs hockey ones. The NHL is currently trying to grow the game still in the United States, especially the southern portion where they have next to no market share there amongst other sports. The NFL already dominates the sports landscape in the United States, so with the NFL teams it's simply about which team will generate the most money, with the NHL there are other factors involved that might mean for something that is for the better health of the league in the long run.

For the NHL to ever be considered on equal footing with the other leagues it absolutely needs to develop into a relevant sport in the the whole southern half of the country. Hell, its not even the top sport in the northern half. This is paramount to long term future revenues as it's a huge untapped market that the NHL needs to grow in so having a struggling franchise in those areas is worth the expenses to keep it afloat because it's cultivating future fans that will help bolster the support in that region down the road. These things take a long time to develop but the windfall from them is absolutely huge and much more of a fiscal difference than if a team from phoenix was moved to a canadian market. Yeah that team would see an immediate boost of gate receipts and other income, but what you dont see is the lost future revenue from a market that then becomes ignored. Face it theres a lot more people down south than in Canada, to ignore that area only to focus on what is already hockey fans is foolish and in that same breath I say what the NHL has done has been extremely smart and probably reason why the TV deals have become so lucrative.

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08-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
There is a difference with football franchises moving vs hockey ones. The NHL is currently trying to grow the game still in the United States, especially the southern portion where they have next to no market share there amongst other sports. The NFL already dominates the sports landscape in the United States, so with the NFL teams it's simply about which team will generate the most money, with the NHL there are other factors involved that might mean for something that is for the better health of the league in the long run.

For the NHL to ever be considered on equal footing with the other leagues it absolutely needs to develop into a relevant sport in the the whole southern half of the country. Hell, its not even the top sport in the northern half. This is paramount to long term future revenues as it's a huge untapped market that the NHL needs to grow in so having a struggling franchise in those areas is worth the expenses to keep it afloat because it's cultivating future fans that will help bolster the support in that region down the road. These things take a long time to develop but the windfall from them is absolutely huge and much more of a fiscal difference than if a team from phoenix was moved to a canadian market. Yeah that team would see an immediate boost of gate receipts and other income, but what you dont see is the lost future revenue from a market that then becomes ignored. Face it theres a lot more people down south than in Canada, to ignore that area only to focus on what is already hockey fans is foolish and in that same breath I say what the NHL has done has been extremely smart and probably reason why the TV deals have become so lucrative.
I see what you're saying. But why try to make it work when it isn't? can't the NHL gradually move south and attract fans that way? I just don't see it working if you just throw teams at the south and expect fans to come out. I would say start the league where it has the biggest fanbase and gradually expand to other areas to make the sport more popular. So yeah I could see eventually the southern US with a lot more hockey teams. but right away it just doesn't seem to me like a good idea.

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08-28-2012, 03:16 PM
  #88
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I see what you're saying. But why try to make it work when it isn't? can't the NHL gradually move south and attract fans that way? I just don't see it working if you just throw teams at the south and expect fans to come out. I would say start the league where it has the biggest fanbase and gradually expand to other areas to make the sport more popular. So yeah I could see eventually the southern US with a lot more hockey teams. but right away it just doesn't seem to me like a good idea.
It's not going to work right away and thats what you're expecting. It's a very very long process. You gotta realize when there is a NHL team in an area it brings with it youth hockey programs and interest. Parents getting their kids involved in that, and those kids playing that sport and growing up and reaching adulthood and when it comes time for their kids to play a sport Hockey will be treated in the same breath as basketball, baseball, and football due to their past experience with the sport. With more people playing it and showing interest in it all those can then be tapped as NHL fans potentially but it starts with the grassroots growing of the sport in general. If you put a team in one of those hockey deprived areas and then throw your arms in the air about the lack of perceived interest by the fans there then you have an incredibly short sighted view about what the purpose of those teams are.

We're just now starting to see the fruits of the california teams and Wayne Gretzky's arrival in LA over 20 years ago. It created excitement in that area and those parents put their kids into hockey, a sport they very well might of ignored had that not of happened. This bolsters the league as a whole because theres also an entire market of athletes that have passed up the sport of hockey in the past who very well might compose future team USA's in the future. Sports are huge down south and theres no reason to say Hockey can't be a part of that discussion. Hockey rinks are popping up all over the place making the sport more and more accessible. You don't need cold weather to play it, even when you live in a cold climate you only get a couple times each year where it's even really feasible to play ice hockey on a pond anyways due to weather issues and snow.

Why should the NHL push this? Because we're talking about doubling or tripling it's future revenue, maybe even more. There is just too large of a sports obsessed culture that is untapped currently in the south and they have a large say in directing the national discussion on what are America's top sports. Until the NHL draws into that group hockey will always be the #4 redheaded step child sport.

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08-28-2012, 04:03 PM
  #89
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I'm with Gooch here. Moving teams back north or to Canada helps current revenue for that team, but I doubt it actually attracts many new fans. Of the potential fans of a new team in Quebec, how many do you think are already NHL fans? I'd say the majority. Meanwhile, if you take a team out of Phoenix, how many of those fans will continue being NHL fans? I'd say the minority.

Moving teams to areas that already watch the NHL is just not as good of a long term plan assuming the goal is to someday become a top tier sports league. The support from Canada is great. But when talking about long term potential, Canada is pretty much a saturated market. There just aren't enough people there to actually grow the game by any significant amount. There's a boatload of short term revenue for the team that moves there. But the overall league revenue will not be much different. It would essentially have the same net effect as revenue sharing on a league-wide scale; except mostly the sharing would be going from one team to one other team instead of from the healthiest teams to the neediest teams.

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08-28-2012, 07:09 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
There is a difference with football franchises moving vs hockey ones. The NHL is currently trying to grow the game still in the United States, especially the southern portion where they have next to no market share there amongst other sports. The NFL already dominates the sports landscape in the United States, so with the NFL teams it's simply about which team will generate the most money, with the NHL there are other factors involved that might mean for something that is for the better health of the league in the long run.

For the NHL to ever be considered on equal footing with the other leagues it absolutely needs to develop into a relevant sport in the the whole southern half of the country. Hell, its not even the top sport in the northern half. This is paramount to long term future revenues as it's a huge untapped market that the NHL needs to grow in so having a struggling franchise in those areas is worth the expenses to keep it afloat because it's cultivating future fans that will help bolster the support in that region down the road. These things take a long time to develop but the windfall from them is absolutely huge and much more of a fiscal difference than if a team from phoenix was moved to a canadian market. Yeah that team would see an immediate boost of gate receipts and other income, but what you dont see is the lost future revenue from a market that then becomes ignored. Face it theres a lot more people down south than in Canada, to ignore that area only to focus on what is already hockey fans is foolish and in that same breath I say what the NHL has done has been extremely smart and probably reason why the TV deals have become so lucrative.
Thanx for saving me from having to write this Gooch-you are right on the money!

The strong majority of NHL Internet fans who constantly gripe about the poorly supported southern teams have no idea what they are talking about. This was a brilliant move by the NHL, one of the only real visionary moves I have seen from them. It's goal is to someday grow the sport to the point that it can compete with the big three for all that American TV Gold.

As another ongoing topic is titled - There can be no great accomplishment without risk. The opening of southern markets is surely a risky venture, but the payback for longer term success should be gigantic. This is also why you have a couple of decent northern markets still without franchises.... You have to have options for the inevitable owner or three that just can't grow support for their teams. Talented owners can be hard to come by.


Last edited by Gallatin: 08-28-2012 at 08:51 PM.
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08-29-2012, 09:32 AM
  #91
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It's not going to work right away and thats what you're expecting. It's a very very long process. You gotta realize when there is a NHL team in an area it brings with it youth hockey programs and interest. Parents getting their kids involved in that, and those kids playing that sport and growing up and reaching adulthood and when it comes time for their kids to play a sport Hockey will be treated in the same breath as basketball, baseball, and football due to their past experience with the sport. With more people playing it and showing interest in it all those can then be tapped as NHL fans potentially but it starts with the grassroots growing of the sport in general. If you put a team in one of those hockey deprived areas and then throw your arms in the air about the lack of perceived interest by the fans there then you have an incredibly short sighted view about what the purpose of those teams are.

We're just now starting to see the fruits of the california teams and Wayne Gretzky's arrival in LA over 20 years ago. It created excitement in that area and those parents put their kids into hockey, a sport they very well might of ignored had that not of happened. This bolsters the league as a whole because theres also an entire market of athletes that have passed up the sport of hockey in the past who very well might compose future team USA's in the future. Sports are huge down south and theres no reason to say Hockey can't be a part of that discussion. Hockey rinks are popping up all over the place making the sport more and more accessible. You don't need cold weather to play it, even when you live in a cold climate you only get a couple times each year where it's even really feasible to play ice hockey on a pond anyways due to weather issues and snow.

Why should the NHL push this? Because we're talking about doubling or tripling it's future revenue, maybe even more. There is just too large of a sports obsessed culture that is untapped currently in the south and they have a large say in directing the national discussion on what are America's top sports. Until the NHL draws into that group hockey will always be the #4 redheaded step child sport.
No I don't expect it work right away, but I don't really think it will work by throwing teams in there just to have a team (usually a terrible one at that) and hoping the magic fairy dust of the NHL will create fans....

I don't object to the NHL placing teams in the South, I just think it should be done gradually. For Example I love that the NHL has a team in Nashville, it's far enough south that it's expanding, yet still close enough to Canada to have an initial fanbase. Let me put it this way, if some league decided to put a professional water polo (assuming you don't watch water polo) team in your hometown would you become a water polo fan? Probably not. But if that league were to put teams in cities closer to their base (wherever that is?! ) and gradually expand towards your city it's more likely that you'd care as you gradually gain more exposure to the sport.

Now i'm not suggesting you'll ever be a die-hard water polo fan. But what I'm saying is throwing terrible teams (Like Florida [yeah they were decent last year, but for YEARS they've been very bad], Atlanta, Phoenix etc) none of those teams have been contenders at any point since i've been a fan of the NHL (Granted Phoenix had a good run, but I still think it was a fluke and probably won't happen again unless Mike Smith goes back to God-mode) , in the south and hoping they will float just doesn't make sense to me. If I were looking to buy an NHL team I wouldn't touch anywhere south of Nashville it just doesn't make business sense to me, even in the long term. . I can tell you I don't want to cheer for a team that can never seem to win.

I see what you're saying about the youth programs and such and I agree it's great that kids can get the chance to play at a younger age. I wish I had had that in my life. But I don't think it takes an NHL franchise to be in that city in order for a youth program to take root. It wouldn't hurt it by any means, but I don't really want to see a 70 team league either just to "tap the talent pool".

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08-29-2012, 09:35 AM
  #92
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No I don't expect it work right away, but I don't really think it will work by throwing teams in there just to have a team (usually a terrible one at that) and hoping the magic fairy dust of the NHL will create fans....

I don't object to the NHL placing teams in the South, I just think it should be done gradually. For Example I love that the NHL has a team in Nashville, it's far enough south that it's expanding, yet still close enough to Canada to have an initial fanbase. Let me put it this way, if some league decided to put a professional water polo (assuming you don't watch water polo) team in your hometown would you become a water polo fan? Probably not. But if that league were to put teams in cities closer to their base (wherever that is?! ) and gradually expand towards your city it's more likely that you'd care as you gradually gain more exposure to the sport.

Now i'm not suggesting you'll ever be a die-hard water polo fan. But what I'm saying is throwing terrible teams (Like Florida [yeah they were decent last year, but for YEARS they've been very bad], Atlanta, Phoenix etc) none of those teams have been contenders at any point since i've been a fan of the NHL. (Granted Phoenix had a good run, but I still think it was a fluke and probably won't happen again unless Mike Smith goes back to God-mode). I can tell you I don't want to cheer for a team that can never seem to win.

I see what you're saying about the youth programs and such and I agree it's great that kids can get the chance to play at a younger age. I wish I had had that in my life. But I don't think it takes an NHL franchise to be in that city in order for a youth program to take root. It wouldn't hurt it by any means, but I don't really want to see a 70 team league either just to "tap the talent pool".
its hard to gradually move these franchises though. "Hey Quebec, you are doing really well. But its time to take the next step in our expansion so you are going to Phoenix."

The teams had to be moved or located when the chance was there.

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08-29-2012, 11:09 AM
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No I don't expect it work right away, but I don't really think it will work by throwing teams in there just to have a team (usually a terrible one at that) and hoping the magic fairy dust of the NHL will create fans....

I don't object to the NHL placing teams in the South, I just think it should be done gradually. For Example I love that the NHL has a team in Nashville, it's far enough south that it's expanding, yet still close enough to Canada to have an initial fanbase. Let me put it this way, if some league decided to put a professional water polo (assuming you don't watch water polo) team in your hometown would you become a water polo fan? Probably not. But if that league were to put teams in cities closer to their base (wherever that is?! ) and gradually expand towards your city it's more likely that you'd care as you gradually gain more exposure to the sport.

Now i'm not suggesting you'll ever be a die-hard water polo fan. But what I'm saying is throwing terrible teams (Like Florida [yeah they were decent last year, but for YEARS they've been very bad], Atlanta, Phoenix etc) none of those teams have been contenders at any point since i've been a fan of the NHL (Granted Phoenix had a good run, but I still think it was a fluke and probably won't happen again unless Mike Smith goes back to God-mode) , in the south and hoping they will float just doesn't make sense to me. If I were looking to buy an NHL team I wouldn't touch anywhere south of Nashville it just doesn't make business sense to me, even in the long term. . I can tell you I don't want to cheer for a team that can never seem to win.

I see what you're saying about the youth programs and such and I agree it's great that kids can get the chance to play at a younger age. I wish I had had that in my life. But I don't think it takes an NHL franchise to be in that city in order for a youth program to take root. It wouldn't hurt it by any means, but I don't really want to see a 70 team league either just to "tap the talent pool".
Anyone that started to play hockey as a kid in Pittsburgh in the early 90's will tell you that having an NHL team has a HUGE impact on local hockey. Before Lemieux, I can probably count on one hand the number of ice rinks in the Pittsburgh area (from what my Dad tells me anyway). By the mid nineties, many new arenas were built and Pittsburgh youth hockey had really expanded. It's now to the point where you can play in Pittsburgh through high school and still have a shot at the NHL. That was unheard of before the rise of the Pens.

Let's parallel that to a similar city in Cleveland. I live here now and can tell you that hockey is basically dead here other than a few wealthy prep schools and elite public schools. There is some good talent here for sure, but in terms of the popularity of the sport, number of rinks, leagues, hockey apparel stores (there's only 1 legit store in Northeast Ohio) it's pathetic compared to Pittsburgh. Most of this is due to the lack of an NHL team.

My point is that an NHL team is absolutely critical to the development of youth hockey in a non traditional market, or even any US market outside of New England or Minnesota/Michigan.

Now obviously not every franchise is blessed with a Lemieux or Crosby or Malkin, but if we really want to grow the game (not only revenues but USA hockey talent in general) then the NHL has to tap into markets throughout the country. Sometimes that will mean failed experiments like Atlanta (which had as much to do with poor ownership/management than it being a poor market).

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08-29-2012, 12:49 PM
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My thoughts are:

* Tickets are getting very expensive, and reaching a breaking point. For middle of the road seats you are now talking over $400 for a family of four, and that does not include parking, food, buying something at Pens' Gear, etc. That would be something like $22,000 a year for the average family. There is a tipping point where there will not be enough to support that amount and we have reached it obviously in many communities.

* The issues a number of franchises have with losses should have a greater revenue sharing component from the richer franchises, but I can see the issue some might have with a number that become black holes for revenue. Building in a market like Phoenix can take decades, and it is hard to tell is it is an investment or a place hockey will never be viable.

The long and short of it is that all sides need to give.

An idea. Make the owners and players both give back, and farm it back into ticket prices in places where the sport is struggling as an investment. Take a little less to grow the sport, instead of the owners just pocketing it.

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08-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #95
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My thoughts are:

* Tickets are getting very expensive, and reaching a breaking point. For middle of the road seats you are now talking over $400 for a family of four, and that does not include parking, food, buying something at Pens' Gear, etc. That would be something like $22,000 a year for the average family. There is a tipping point where there will not be enough to support that amount and we have reached it obviously in many communities.

* The issues a number of franchises have with losses should have a greater revenue sharing component from the richer franchises, but I can see the issue some might have with a number that become black holes for revenue. Building in a market like Phoenix can take decades, and it is hard to tell is it is an investment or a place hockey will never be viable.

The long and short of it is that all sides need to give.

An idea. Make the owners and players both give back, and farm it back into ticket prices in places where the sport is struggling as an investment. Take a little less to grow the sport, instead of the owners just pocketing it.
aren't tickets dirt cheap in most of the struggling markets? I know they were selling tickets at the gates of Columbus for like 10 or 15 bucks.

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08-29-2012, 01:04 PM
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aren't tickets dirt cheap in most of the struggling markets? I know they were selling tickets at the gates of Columbus for like 10 or 15 bucks.
I just looked Columbus up, for the preseason games they have them as low as $33 to $59 box office (not ticket master) in the upper bowl for the Pens' game on September 24th. Cheap bot not dirt cheap. Their best seats are a relative bargain compared to us at $212 a ticket. I would imagine season ticket holder prices would be better though.

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08-29-2012, 01:08 PM
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Anyone that started to play hockey as a kid in Pittsburgh in the early 90's will tell you that having an NHL team has a HUGE impact on local hockey. Before Lemieux, I can probably count on one hand the number of ice rinks in the Pittsburgh area (from what my Dad tells me anyway). By the mid nineties, many new arenas were built and Pittsburgh youth hockey had really expanded. It's now to the point where you can play in Pittsburgh through high school and still have a shot at the NHL. That was unheard of before the rise of the Pens.

Let's parallel that to a similar city in Cleveland. I live here now and can tell you that hockey is basically dead here other than a few wealthy prep schools and elite public schools. There is some good talent here for sure, but in terms of the popularity of the sport, number of rinks, leagues, hockey apparel stores (there's only 1 legit store in Northeast Ohio) it's pathetic compared to Pittsburgh. Most of this is due to the lack of an NHL team.

My point is that an NHL team is absolutely critical to the development of youth hockey in a non traditional market, or even any US market outside of New England or Minnesota/Michigan.

Now obviously not every franchise is blessed with a Lemieux or Crosby or Malkin, but if we really want to grow the game (not only revenues but USA hockey talent in general) then the NHL has to tap into markets throughout the country. Sometimes that will mean failed experiments like Atlanta (which had as much to do with poor ownership/management than it being a poor market).
I understand that having an NHL team can have a huge effect on the youth program. But like I said before I don't want a league with 70+ teams because every major city needs a hockey program. (and being a Pittsburgh fan Cleveland can just remain the ******* it is )

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its hard to gradually move these franchises though. "Hey Quebec, you are doing really well. But its time to take the next step in our expansion so you are going to Phoenix."

The teams had to be moved or located when the chance was there.
I don't think I'm coming across clearly. I don't mean to say don't jump on the opportunity if it should present itself to move a team to another location farther south. I just wouldn't immediately jump from say Ontario to Florida and think all is happy go lucky. I would rather see Ontario to say Omaha and in that manner gradually expand South.

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08-29-2012, 01:31 PM
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I'm ticked at what's happening but if the Pens didn't have a Cup contender then I probably would be more apathetic after they came back if the regular season is disrupted. However, everything will be forgotten, for me, once they play that first game.

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08-29-2012, 02:20 PM
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I understand that having an NHL team can have a huge effect on the youth program. But like I said before I don't want a league with 70+ teams because every major city needs a hockey program. (and being a Pittsburgh fan Cleveland can just remain the ******* it is )



I don't think I'm coming across clearly. I don't mean to say don't jump on the opportunity if it should present itself to move a team to another location farther south. I just wouldn't immediately jump from say Ontario to Florida and think all is happy go lucky. I would rather see Ontario to say Omaha and in that manner gradually expand South.
These are contradicting statements aren't they? On one hand you don't want a 70 team league, but on the other hand you want to gradually move South. How do you start a team in Omaha and when it succeeds start a team in Atlanta without adding more teams to the league?

The point I was trying to make is that for the game to grow, revenue and popularity wise, the big markets need to be tapped into. Omaha is not a big market so I don't see the point there. If you argued Kansas City should have gotten a team before Atlanta then I would agree. I think we are close to maxed out in the 30 team league for the forseeable future. I'm not that opposed to moving Phoenix or one of New Jersey/NYI, but I'd like to see the rest of the Southern teams stay where they are.

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08-29-2012, 07:20 PM
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These are contradicting statements aren't they? On one hand you don't want a 70 team league, but on the other hand you want to gradually move South. How do you start a team in Omaha and when it succeeds start a team in Atlanta without adding more teams to the league?

The point I was trying to make is that for the game to grow, revenue and popularity wise, the big markets need to be tapped into. Omaha is not a big market so I don't see the point there. If you argued Kansas City should have gotten a team before Atlanta then I would agree. I think we are close to maxed out in the 30 team league for the forseeable future. I'm not that opposed to moving Phoenix or one of New Jersey/NYI, but I'd like to see the rest of the Southern teams stay where they are.
They aren't at all contradicting. the Northeast is overcrowded with teams. New York alone has 3 teams. I'd like to see some of the NE teams moved and spread out more. As far as Omaha vs Kansas City I was just making an example, not necessarily a definite statement Kansas City is just as fine to me.

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