HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

Off-season Armchair GM Thread Part IX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #426
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
He put up 59 points in 08-09 with a mixture Michalek (Couture is better), Clowe (he was worse back then), and Cheechoo.
If Couture and Michalek were the same age and both healthy, I would take Michalek everytime.


Last edited by Hatrick Marleau: 08-29-2012 at 03:54 PM.
Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:00 PM
  #427
SactoShork
fun must be alwalys
 
SactoShork's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 9,234
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
If Couture and Michalek were the same age and both healthy, I would take Michalek everytime.
Because he skates faster? I don't get it.

SactoShork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:08 PM
  #428
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
If Couture and Michalek were the same age and both healthy, I would take Michalek everytime.
I disagree, but that's irrelevant. Couture is better now than Michalek was back then.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #429
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Because he skates faster? I don't get it.
Because massive suffocating negativity is the game this off-season.

I don't see any reason I would choose Michalek over Couture, I don't even see those two players on the same level. Michalek is at best a complimentary player, at worst an injury prone liability. He's good defensively, and he's fast, but beyond that he's simply never been able to sustain a high level of play for any length of time.

Couture can carry a line, Michalek absolutely can not.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:16 PM
  #430
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Because he skates faster? I don't get it.
He reminds me a lot of Marleau. Both very good skaters, same size, both are very good defensively, and very good shots. Marleau is more skilled offensively and a little better defensively.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:16 PM
  #431
McLovin25
Eberle=Clutch
 
McLovin25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Because he skates faster? I don't get it.
i thought that was the only thing that mattered to sharks fans, the speed in which said player skates...

McLovin25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:20 PM
  #432
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
i thought that was the only thing that mattered to sharks fans, the speed in which said player skates...
I think comments like this are seriously getting old. No one ever said speed is all that matters. They said this team can't afford anymore slow players, there is a HUGE difference.

This team cannot afford to get slower, it needs to get faster, so the reason you keep hearing that is because when we look at player additions we are sticking to that philosophy. Mitchell is a fast skater and no one wants anything more to do with him, we need skill players, but we need skill players that can skate.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:21 PM
  #433
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I disagree, but that's irrelevant. Couture is better now than Michalek was back then.
I don't agree that Couture is better than Michalek was back than. Right now, Couture is at the same level now. The concussions and other injuries have taken a toll on Michalek.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #434
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I don't agree that Couture is better than Michalek was back than. Right now, Couture is at the same level now. The concussions and other injuries have taken a toll on Michalek.
Simply untrue. Michalek never had the vision or playmaking abilities Couture has shown, and as I said he could never carry his own line, Couture already does that.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:42 PM
  #435
Chubbs
Toasty
 
Chubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: parent's basement
Posts: 2,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I don't agree that Couture is better than Michalek was back than. Right now, Couture is at the same level now. The concussions and other injuries have taken a toll on Michalek.
Michalek's proneness to injuries is well documented and it would be wrong not to take that into account. If you're going to compare players based on physical traits like speed, then durability should be a criteria as well.

But even if both players were 100%, I probably would still take Couture, though it would be closer than some people on the boards would have it.

Chubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:52 PM
  #436
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Simply untrue. Michalek never had the vision or playmaking abilities Couture has shown, and as I said he could never carry his own line, Couture already does that.
Michalek put up 40 assists in his 2nd full season. Couture put up 34 assists in 2nd full season last year. Michael had 1 more point in his 2nd season and was a +17, while Couture was a +2. Couture can't carry his own line.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:55 PM
  #437
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
Michalek's proneness to injuries is well documented and it would be wrong not to take that into account. If you're going to compare players based on physical traits like speed, then durability should be a criteria as well.

But even if both players were 100%, I probably would still take Couture, though it would be closer than some people on the boards would have it.
Yeah, Michalek had a breakout season in 2006-2007, but then Raffi Torres ruined him that year the playoffs. I would take Couture right now over Michalek because of his injury history.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 04:58 PM
  #438
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Michalek put up 40 assists in his 2nd full season. Couture put up 34 assists in 2nd full season last year. Michael had 1 more point in his 2nd season and was a +17, while Couture was a +2. Couture can't carry his own line.
Do you just come up with ridiculous comparisons you know will irritate people in some bizarre attempt to depress everyone or something? I really don't understand why you keep making these arguments, what is your purpose here? Do you want everyone to stop rooting for the Sharks or something? Would you be happy if we were all as incredibly negative as you are? Seriously, what are you trying to get at here?

Michalek's first two seasons: 43g, 58a, 101p, +18
Couture's first two seasons: 63g, 58a, 121p, +20

Your cherry picking is impressive.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:01 PM
  #439
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,129
vCash: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
This Demers vs. Braun argument is pretty ridiculous. It's a tough one and close.

Here's something nobody has really mentioned. Braun before last season started was considered to barely be a prospect because of his poor skating. Boy did he really do something to improve that though!

With that said, if he can go from weak to strong skating in one off season, then there is no reason to keep saying Demers has more upside. Hell, Braun probably hasn't even figured exactly what he can pull off with his current skating and what if he improves even more? Not to mention he's a big kid.

I really like Demers ability to pass and play tough. I think he will get comfortable and be a great TWD. He has shown the ability to make great defensive plays... he just needs to be consistent and have a coach who won't destroy his development by playing him on the wrong side, or with Colin ****ing White.

I like them both and think if either one gets traded it will be a massive mistake.
Where are you getting the idea in bold? I'll throw in a link below to post from 2009 (of mine) where I am replying to Matt Trick. Even back then it was acknowledged that Braun was a solid, but not fantastic skater. And also back then his on-ice vision and hockey sense were acknowledged (at least by me).

Yes, I was off on Bielkie and Groulx, but at 1 out of 3 my scouting wasn't that bad.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=52

Braun is, and always has been, pegged as a solid 2-way defensive prospect. One who plays a more cerebral, non-physical game. He has decent offense, better than average defense, and average skating. This has been the talk on him since before he was drafted if I remember right. So it's no surprise that he's coming in exactly as expected. What he has never been known for is a significant amount of offensive creativity or high-end skating ability.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:03 PM
  #440
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Where are you getting the idea in bold? I'll throw in a link below to post from 2009 (of mine) where I am replying to Matt Trick. Even back then it was acknowledged that Braun was a solid, but not fantastic skater. And also back then his on-ice vision and hockey sense were acknowledged (at least by me).

Yes, I was off on Bielkie and Groulx, but at 1 out of 3 my scouting wasn't that bad.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=52

Braun is, and always has been, pegged as a solid 2-way defensive prospect. One who plays a more cerebral, non-physical game. He has decent offense, better than average defense, and average skating. This has been the talk on him since before he was drafted if I remember right. So it's no surprise that he's coming in exactly as expected. What he has never been known for is a significant amount of offensive creativity or high-end skating ability.
I was wondering that myself, I almost thought maybe he was thinking of Petrecki or something. I don't remember ever hearing anyone knock Braun's skating.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:10 PM
  #441
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Do you just come up with ridiculous comparisons you know will irritate people in some bizarre attempt to depress everyone or something? I really don't understand why you keep making these arguments, what is your purpose here? Do you want everyone to stop rooting for the Sharks or something? Would you be happy if we were all as incredibly negative as you are? Seriously, what are you trying to get at here?

Michalek's first two seasons: 43g, 58a, 101p, +18
Couture's first two seasons: 63g, 58a, 121p, +20

Your cherry picking is impressive.
You are forgetting that Couture played 43 games before his "rookie" season, 18 of which were Stanley Cup Playoff games. Michalek didn't get that kind of experience before his rookie year, which was a true rookie year unlike Couture.

Couture averaged .36PPG in his real rookie season, which was his 1st year in the league. Michalek averaged .43PPG in his 1st year.


Looks like you were cherry picking.

EDIT:Just because I don't agree with you, I am a negative person. I am just stating my opinion on things.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #442
thrillermiller89
Registered User
 
thrillermiller89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
i think these lines would be kind of cool to see

Havlat-Thornton-Pavelski
Malreau-Couture-Clowe

Thoughts?

thrillermiller89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:32 PM
  #443
Chubbs
Toasty
 
Chubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: parent's basement
Posts: 2,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
i think these lines would be kind of cool to see

Havlat-Thornton-Pavelski
Malreau-Couture-Clowe

Thoughts?
Havlat's creativity and rush play would be negated by Thornton unless Thornton reinvents his game. Also there's no F1 on that line and Pavelski would be the only true sniper.

Second line works. He may get his fair (or unfair at times) share of bashing, but that just goes to show you how versatile Marleau is in the lineup.

Chubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:34 PM
  #444
thrillermiller89
Registered User
 
thrillermiller89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 1,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
Havlat's creativity and rush play would be negated by Thornton unless Thornton reinvents his game. Also there's no F1 on that line and Pavelski would be the only true sniper.

Second line works. He may get his fair (or unfair at times) share of bashing, but that just goes to show you how versatile Marleau is in the lineup.
good to know.

thanks for the feedback

thrillermiller89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:37 PM
  #445
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
You are forgetting that Couture played 43 games before his "rookie" season, 18 of which were Stanley Cup Playoff games. Michalek didn't get that kind of experience before his rookie year, which was a true rookie year unlike Couture.

Couture averaged .36PPG in his real rookie season, which was his 1st year in the league. Michalek averaged .43PPG in his 1st year.


Looks like you were cherry picking.

EDIT:Just because I don't agree with you, I am a negative person. I am just stating my opinion on things.
I was using the two years YOU YOURSELF were using.

I said you are negative because you are constantly negative about everything. All our promising players are overated, all our prospects are garbage, all the past players we don't have anymore were superior... Seriously man, go over your posting history, you rarely post anything positive. Hell people get on MY case for being negative and I am getting on your case for it, so you know it must be bad.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #446
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
i think these lines would be kind of cool to see

Havlat-Thornton-Pavelski
Malreau-Couture-Clowe

Thoughts?
Not really much of a difference and Havlat and Joe are both pass first players.
I'd rather see this:

Couture Jumbo Samsonov
Havlat Pavelski Marleau
Clowe Desjardin Wingels

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 06:02 PM
  #447
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I was using the two years YOU YOURSELF were using.

I said you are negative because you are constantly negative about everything. All our promising players are overated, all our prospects are garbage, all the past players we don't have anymore were superior... Seriously man, go over your posting history, you rarely post anything positive. Hell people get on MY case for being negative and I am getting on your case for it, so you know it must be bad.
I was using their 2nd full season not their first 2 years. Their 2nd full season is a better comparison of the two. They are different players. Michalek was a Hossa/Erat type of player and I have no clue who I would compare Couture to.

The only players I said are overrated are Pavelski, Couture, and Braun. Pavelski and Couture are both the best in the world and Braun is a stud of a dman, apparently. Pavelski is an elite 2nd line center and Couture is a very good 2nd line center. From reading the comments, Pavelski is treated like an elite 1st line player and Couture is thought of as a potential top 10 center. By overrated, I mean overrated by Sharks fans. I don't recall calling are prospects garbage. Stalock, Nieto, Irwin, and Hertl are good to very good prospects. Olesuk and Stalberg are guys I expect to put on a show in training camp. I'm not being negative I'm being real. I am a big Sharks fan. I want to see them raise the cup. I watch every single game. Even if they were the worst team in the league, I would still watch every game. Hockey is my favorite sport. NHL 12 is my favorite game and soon NHL 13 will be my favorite. I give players credit during the season if they prove me wrong. I want Pavelski, Couture, and Braun to prove me wrong. If they do, I will take everything bad I said about them back.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 06:06 PM
  #448
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Couture averaged .36PPG in his real rookie season, which was his 1st year in the league. Michalek averaged .43PPG in his 1st year.
And who were their line-mates in their "true rookie" season. I like how you negate Pavelski's point totals when he's in the first line, but you completely ignore the fact that Michalek was consistently in the Top-6 (swapped between the first and the second line). Couture, in his "true rookie" season, was not only sent back to the AHL (tough to build chemistry with his linemates), but he was playing 3rd line minutes. While Michalek's C was Thornton or Marleau, Couture played alongside Malhotra, McGinn, Ortmeyer, etc.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #449
WTFetus
Moderator
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 11,590
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
The only players I said are overrated are Pavelski, Couture, and Braun. Pavelski and Couture are both the best in the world and Braun is a stud of a dman, apparently. Pavelski is an elite 2nd line center and Couture is a very good 2nd line center.
Again, if anything, you're underrating Braun. Saying Demers is going to be a #3 and Braun is going to be at best a #4 at this point in their careers is just ridiculous. Your logic is pretty terrible. Braun had a good season, but that doesn't count because he has to prove he can do it again. Demers had a bad season, but that doesn't count because he had a good season earlier? Way to show your bias.
And for the record, since when does saying Couture > Michalek mean that he's going to be a Top 10 C? And by the numbers, Pavelski was a great first line winger last season. 60+ points with Selke level defense.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 06:17 PM
  #450
Hatrick Marleau
#Gutless
 
Hatrick Marleau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: #awkward
Posts: 4,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
And who were their line-mates in their "true rookie" season. I like how you negate Pavelski's point totals when he's in the first line, but you completely ignore the fact that Michalek was consistently in the Top-6 (swapped between the first and the second line). Couture, in his "true rookie" season, was not only sent back to the AHL (tough to build chemistry with his linemates), but he was playing 3rd line minutes. While Michalek's C was Thornton or Marleau, Couture played alongside Malhotra, McGinn, Ortmeyer, etc.
In their 2nd full season they both were playing in the top 6. That is why I used that since it was a better comparison of the two.

Hatrick Marleau is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.