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Old
08-30-2012, 09:30 AM
  #26
nwpensfan
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
nope. 5-6 D are dime a dozen. infact we have 20 of them.

infact the only way you can get rid of them is minimum 6 at a time...because pennies are getting eliminated.

kennedy is a cool guy but do not want. we could actually use some size... like that magnus paajarvii kid. Man i wish we could get that Paajarvii kid on the oilers.
Wow, you guys are deep!!

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08-30-2012, 09:31 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Omark also has a ****** entitled attitude.
Magnus has a positive outlook on things.

That is a giant difference.
I guess it's this "positive outlook" that helped him to score amazing 8 points in 41 games last season. How many points will he score if his outlook becomes even more positive, I wonder?

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Old
08-30-2012, 09:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
I guess it's this "positive outlook" that helped him to score amazing 8 points in 41 games last season. How many points will he score if his outlook becomes even more positive, I wonder?
Or he can get back to his rookie season form and build on that?
Not like he never had an average season.

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Old
08-30-2012, 09:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Lol, in a couple of years Edmonton will get as much for Paajarvi as for Omark. The guy won't get a place in top 6 and leave them to Europe for nothing...
Paajarvi's already shown he can play in the bigs he just had a case of the old sophomore slump. 15 goals and 30+points your rookie season is impressive. He'll find his game again.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:09 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
There seems to be a strong misconception that the Oilers are lacking in defense prospects. At his point they almost have too many for the number of spots available to them. Right now they have Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, Fedun, Teubert, Gustafsson and Davidson to go along with J.Schultz as their young prospects playing pro that have NHL upside. I did not include Alex Plante, who was an AHL allstar because his days as an Oiler may be near over. Add to that Gernat, Simpson and Laleggia and what this team does not need are more dmen who do not have significant upside.
It drives me nuts to see all of the offers for #5-6 D men to EDM. We have plenty of those guys, please pawn them somewhere else.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:12 AM
  #31
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Do I just not understand the appeal with Tyler Kennedy? I like him, but I don't like him more than a Talbot or a guy like that. Can't see how the 2nd proposed trade behooves Edmonton at all

I think the defensemen in the deal going to Edmonton are #5s at best and Kennedy is a 3rd liner for the rest of his career. I don't see why Edmonton would give up a guy with a boat load of potential for that return.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:23 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
It drives me nuts to see all of the offers for #5-6 D men to EDM. We have plenty of those guys, please pawn them somewhere else.
me too! we are on HF Boards...i think some people need to check Hockeys Future board and see the depth the Oilers have on D and how they are ranked...other team's posters offering us more of what we already have isn't going to help the Oilers now or in the future. unless we can find a legit #1 d-man out there, the Oil just aren't going to deal for anymore d-men.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:26 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Do I just not understand the appeal with Tyler Kennedy? I like him, but I don't like him more than a Talbot or a guy like that. Can't see how the 2nd proposed trade behooves Edmonton at all

I think the defensemen in the deal going to Edmonton are #5s at best and Kennedy is a 3rd liner for the rest of his career. I don't see why Edmonton would give up a guy with a boat load of potential for that return.
Kennedy's a good 3rd liner, decent offensive skills, a pest, good fighter for his size and solid in his own end. I think Talbot has him beat defensively but Kennedy has the edge offensively.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Do I just not understand the appeal with Tyler Kennedy? I like him, but I don't like him more than a Talbot or a guy like that. Can't see how the 2nd proposed trade behooves Edmonton at all

I think the defensemen in the deal going to Edmonton are #5s at best and Kennedy is a 3rd liner for the rest of his career. I don't see why Edmonton would give up a guy with a boat load of potential for that return.
I think you just haven't looked deep enough into TK. His even strength production is at top 6 level when you weight for ice time. He just never gets any PP time to pad his stats (when he has, he's done fairly well).

Very underrated player that has top level compete effort on every shift. I don't want the Pens to trade him to anybody unless they get a Gogo/Neal-Niskannen type of deal.

TK is so much better than Talbot it's not even close. TK can drive the play without relying on other players like Talbot (who wouldn't be the best skater at any public skate).

He's (TK) been a positive Corsi player every year of his career (having better Corsi numbers than Crosby and Malkin for a couple of years)

TK averages about 2.0 even strength points / 60min ice time. Top 6 cut off level is about 1.6 Pts/60

Last year, this placed him ahead of Taylor Hall, Vanek, Backstrom, Grabovski, Perron, Ryan, Skinner, Jagr, Eric Staal, Nash, Marleau, (I could keep going). Do you get my point? TK produces at even strength, and he does it at a high level. He only makes 2mil. He has NOT produced at a 3rd line level. PIT's 3rd line usually went up against top lines too.

TK is vastly underrated and does not get the opportunity from his ill informed coaching staff to shine.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:37 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I think you just haven't looked deep enough into TK. His even strength production is at top 6 level when you weight for ice time. He just never gets any PP time to pad his stats (when he has, he's done fairly well).

Very underrated player that has top level compete effort on every shift. I don't want the Pens to trade him to anybody unless they get a Gogo/Neal-Niskannen type of deal.

TK is so much better than Talbot it's not even close. TK can drive the play without relying on other players like Talbot (who wouldn't be the best skater at any public skate).

He's (TK) been a positive Corsi player every year of his career (having better Corsi numbers than Crosby and Malkin for a couple of years)

TK averages about 2.0 even strength points / 60min ice time. Top 6 cut off level is about 1.6 Pts/60

Last year, this placed him ahead of Taylor Hall, Vanek, Backstrom, Grabovski, Perron, Ryan, Skinner, Jagr, Eric Staal, Nash, Marleau, (I could keep going). Do you get my point? TK produces at even strength, and he does it at a high level. He only makes 2mil. He has NOT produced at a 3rd line level. PIT's 3rd line usually went up against top lines too.

TK is vastly underrated and does not get the opportunity from his ill informed coaching staff to shine.
I completely agree with you, he is one of the most underrated players on HF.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:41 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I think you just haven't looked deep enough into TK. His even strength production is at top 6 level when you weight for ice time. He just never gets any PP time to pad his stats (when he has, he's done fairly well).

Very underrated player that has top level compete effort on every shift. I don't want the Pens to trade him to anybody unless they get a Gogo/Neal-Niskannen type of deal.

TK is so much better than Talbot it's not even close. TK can drive the play without relying on other players like Talbot (who wouldn't be the best skater at any public skate).

He's (TK) been a positive Corsi player every year of his career (having better Corsi numbers than Crosby and Malkin for a couple of years)

TK averages about 2.0 even strength points / 60min ice time. Top 6 cut off level is about 1.6 Pts/60

Last year, this placed him ahead of Taylor Hall, Vanek, Backstrom, Grabovski, Perron, Ryan, Skinner, Jagr, Eric Staal, Nash, Marleau, (I could keep going). Do you get my point? TK produces at even strength, and he does it at a high level. He only makes 2mil. He has NOT produced at a 3rd line level. PIT's 3rd line usually went up against top lines too.

TK is vastly underrated and does not get the opportunity from his ill informed coaching staff to shine.
I get your point that Corsi numbers are totally irrelevant if you use it as a measuring stick to compare skill of players. I take any one of those players you said TK was ahead of.

I get that he may be underrated, but he's not that good. I'd love to have him, but he isn't THAT good.

I think he's exactly the kind of player that is cheap to acquire despite bringing a lot. Like how Flyers fans say Matt Read is worth a lot when he probably isn't...I think TK is the same way.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:44 AM
  #37
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I think Read's worth a decent amount because of his versatility and cheap contract. Kennedy's worth a decent amount because of his experience, ability to step into the top 6 and can play both sides.

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Old
08-30-2012, 11:48 AM
  #38
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I think Read's worth a decent amount because of his versatility and cheap contract. Kennedy's worth a decent amount because of his experience, ability to step into the top 6 and can play both sides.
And I absolutely agree with you. I'm just saying as a guy who's seen TK play a pretty decent amount...I don't get why I (as EDM) would ever give up Magnuss for him and some bottom pairing d-men.

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Old
08-30-2012, 12:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I think you just haven't looked deep enough into TK. His even strength production is at top 6 level when you weight for ice time. He just never gets any PP time to pad his stats (when he has, he's done fairly well).

Very underrated player that has top level compete effort on every shift. I don't want the Pens to trade him to anybody unless they get a Gogo/Neal-Niskannen type of deal.

TK is so much better than Talbot it's not even close. TK can drive the play without relying on other players like Talbot (who wouldn't be the best skater at any public skate).

He's (TK) been a positive Corsi player every year of his career (having better Corsi numbers than Crosby and Malkin for a couple of years)

TK averages about 2.0 even strength points / 60min ice time. Top 6 cut off level is about 1.6 Pts/60

Last year, this placed him ahead of Taylor Hall, Vanek, Backstrom, Grabovski, Perron, Ryan, Skinner, Jagr, Eric Staal, Nash, Marleau, (I could keep going). Do you get my point? TK produces at even strength, and he does it at a high level. He only makes 2mil. He has NOT produced at a 3rd line level. PIT's 3rd line usually went up against top lines too.

TK is vastly underrated and does not get the opportunity from his ill informed coaching staff to shine.
All this does is show that stats can be misleading.

Tyler Kennedy is as average of an NHL player as you can get.

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Old
08-30-2012, 12:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Kreator View Post
Omark also has a ****** entitled attitude.
Magnus has a positive outlook on things.

That is a giant difference.
Plus PRV plays a 2 way game . If he does not develop into a scoring threat he is still very usefully . Omark no so much

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Old
08-30-2012, 01:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
And I absolutely agree with you. I'm just saying as a guy who's seen TK play a pretty decent amount...I don't get why I (as EDM) would ever give up Magnuss for him and some bottom pairing d-men.
Guess it depends on how much upside you think MPS has, it's certainly too early to make that trade right now though. MPS has the tools to be a solid two-way 3rd liner at the very least but he needs to figure things out.

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Old
08-30-2012, 01:57 PM
  #42
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Oilers are actually pretty short on natural left-wingers. MPS is hardly expendable for someone who's not a clear-cut top 4 D. Maybe he's not worth that much, but that's what it would take. So they'll be keeping Magnus, and gladly so.


Last edited by KarmaPolice: 08-30-2012 at 02:05 PM.
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Old
08-30-2012, 03:14 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
I guess it's this "positive outlook" that helped him to score amazing 8 points in 41 games last season. How many points will he score if his outlook becomes even more positive, I wonder?
It kept him in the industry with a chance to play his way to the NHL. Versus signing with a swiss club and hoping in 2-3 years when your rights with the Oilers end and you are a UFA that a team will sign the 28 year old 1 dimensional undersized forward who wasnt good enough for the KHL

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Old
08-30-2012, 04:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I get your point that Corsi numbers are totally irrelevant if you use it as a measuring stick to compare skill of players. I take any one of those players you said TK was ahead of.

I get that he may be underrated, but he's not that good. I'd love to have him, but he isn't THAT good.

I think he's exactly the kind of player that is cheap to acquire despite bringing a lot. Like how Flyers fans say Matt Read is worth a lot when he probably isn't...I think TK is the same way.
I did NOT state that he was ahead of those players in Corsi. He is ahead of those players in 5v5 pts / 60min ice time. Big difference. His point production rate is very similar to those players I mentioned at even strength. I wouldn't have thought those were his peers either in 5v5 production.

The Corsi just shows that he drives the play via puck possession so his point production should be (and has been) repeatable. Just remember he doesn't get many minutes/game. More minutes = more opportunity for points.

Your perspective of offensive players would change greatly if they didn't get tons of PP time to pad their point stats. TK has produced good results in this league for many years now. I have provided data to back up my opinion of him.

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Old
08-30-2012, 05:03 PM
  #45
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You're looking at the Pens needs and not the Oilers. We also already have a logjam at defense and surely aren't giving up on Paajarvi for #6/7 tweeners.

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Old
08-30-2012, 05:13 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Your perspective of offensive players would change greatly if they didn't get tons of PP time to pad their point stats.
You're presumption that he has an unsophisticated understanding of these things is wrong for one, and comes off as condescending.



Let's see TK's stats thus season without Staal helping to keep time of possession in his favor.

TK is a good player, but his stats can be misleading. His production per60 in the offensive zone would be interesting to see. I would wager his time on attack decreases this year and be spends more time in his own zone, in addition to scoring less when he is in the other teams zone.

I like TK's game though, because its all about hustle. Skill can be fickle, hustle is there every night.


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 08-30-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old
08-30-2012, 05:18 PM
  #47
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TK would be a good fit on the Oil. His hustle and enthusiasm would probably be a good blend/fit for the team. The ******* never stops skating hard.

You never have to worry about TK shooting the puck. TK could be going in on a 3 on 0 with Hall and RNH and he's going to shoot the puck instead of dishing it to those guys. Crosby even joked about playing with TK and that happening a few times

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Old
08-30-2012, 06:19 PM
  #48
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Paajarvi is gonna be a player mark my words. People do realize Joe Thornton only scored 4 goals in his first NHL season, Paajarvi had a bad case of the sophomore slump he'll be a 40-50 point winger next year IMO.

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Old
08-30-2012, 06:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
You're presumption that he has an unsophisticated understanding of these things is wrong for one, and comes off as condescending.



Let's see TK's stats thus season without Staal helping to keep time of possession in his favor.

TK is a good player, but his stats can be misleading. His production per60 in the offensive zone would be interesting to see. I would wager his time on attack decreases this year and be spends more time in his own zone, in addition to scoring less when he is in the other teams zone.

I like TK's game though, because its all about hustle. Skill can be fickle, hustle is there every night.
TK produced pretty well when he played on a line with Mark Letestu and Chris Conner.

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Old
08-30-2012, 06:42 PM
  #50
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MP will not be traded period.

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