The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
New NHL proposal coming this week; NHL won't respond to counter unless salary cuts
I haven't seen too many really bitter, long standing holdouts on the player's parts recently. Looks to me (even during this renegotiation of the CBA) like some teams are very happy to hand out huge contracts -- how is that on the players?
It's not that TSN is wrong, it's that it's pro owner propoganda. TSN has sources but they are all owners and governors.
Yes, Aaron Ward is spewing pro owner propaganda.
TSN is doing nothing in terms of taking sides right now, maybe when the insiders come back to work it will change but for now they've just been reporting.
I haven't seen too many really bitter, long standing holdouts on the player's parts recently. Looks to me (even during this renegotiation of the CBA) like some teams are very happy to hand out huge contracts -- how is that on the players?
Players have happily used the 5% inflator on the cap every chance they've had which has help create the increase in salaries relative to revenues. Players have also happily signed deals with large front loadings which play a role in how much is held back in escrow...something they hate.
But ultimately, when you do business you do business under the current rules and you exploit those rules for all they are worth if you want to be successful. That doesn't mean you like the rules or that you don't want to see them changed. You just simply can't sit on your hands waiting for the day the rules of business change to something you fully agree with. The PA and the players can't just throw up their hands and say "but he gave me the money" and then turn around and say "we want to be partners" and "we don't like how much money is being put into escrow" etc etc etc
So yes the owners signed some big money deals. But, keep in mind that the total player share is fixed so it was all about screwing over the other teams as much as you can within the framework of the rules (the CBA). To do otherwise would first of all be completely against all logic when trying to win and, secondly, if all of a sudden on July 1 Suter and Parise weren't looking at lifetime huge money deals there would be a collusion charge filed by the PA on July 2.
TSN is doing nothing in terms of taking sides right now, maybe when the insiders come back to work it will change but for now they've just been reporting.
Bob McKenzie is back Tuesday so we'll see what he says.
Out of idle curiousity, does the NHLPA sill have a player president and player vice presidents? Haven't heard which player took over after Linden retired....
... there hasnt been a Player President since 2006 (Linden). Just individual team rep's.
Just out curiosity, is there anyone who thinks after what happened today in negotiation that there is a good chance there wont be a lock out? Please no pessimists
Personally, I see us looking at training camp getting cancelled and possibly the season starting in late October but I do not believe we will miss many games, if any at all. Right now it actually looks somewhat promising. Both sides seem to have a calmer head than last time.
I read that they were going to counter it today or tomorrow?
What Fehr said when talks finished is that "they were going to work on a proposal and reply to the owners offer". Not "prepare a proposal in response to the owner's offer". Just saying don't get your hopes up, the PA from what I have read have not actually said they were going to counter the owners offer which to me would be a proposal that is done within the same framework the league has proposed (the current CBA framework).
By the same token this last offer from the NHL was IMO not a counter offer to the PA but a sweetening of the previous offer and one that I think had a significant degree of fairness to it. I just expect the PA to do a similar thing and sweeten their previous offer which when it boils down to it means the two sides are still reading from a different book.
The NHL wants to keep the players share linked to revenues for the entirety of the deal. Even though they unlinked the cap (not players share) the first few years to keep it artificially low to remove some of the burden from the escrow mechanisms and player's back the player's share remained linked. The PA wants to remove linkage of the players share to revenues but are accepting of a hard-ish cap (also unlinked). Remember the PAs calculations of what the players share would be had nothing to do with linkage but was merely a calculation based on the assumption the revenues continued to grow at that 7% rate, expenses for the league wouldn't increase at a different rate etc it wasn't linkage. It's two completely different systems. Until one side or the other decides to negotiate within the framework of the other side there will be no true progress.
Now of course as Fehr has said about the NHL it isn't a give if you never had it in the first place in the current CBA. As such, using his own logic the players agreeing to work within the leagues proposed framework (same as the current CBA) involves no giving on his part. Though i'm sure if they do decide to do just that he'll phrase it as a big give.
Can people stop citing TSN as a source? Might as well take quotes directly from Bettman's office. Absolutely zero credibility.
Can you please provide some proof that they're not being honest with what they're printing?
Yes they're owned by Bell Canada, as is a portion of the Leafs, but until someone can point to something they're saying to show that it's false... all you're doing is crying wolf over nothing, and in the process attempting to discredit one of the premier sport companies in Canada.
I would have been impressed if they could create a new version of the CBA they wanted with that quick of a turnaround time. Slowly and steadily getting there. Still not worred, we may lose training camp but boohoo.
Essentially this is what the NHL did with their latest offer: They improved on kicking the NHL players in the teeth by instead opting to kick them in the stomach.
Or perhaps the analogy should be more like how one hockey source with knowledge of the negotiations portrayed it to CSNNE.com: “You took a really [expletive] proposal and made it a little less [expletive]. But that still makes it pretty [expletive].”
Essentially this is what the NHL did with their latest offer: They improved on kicking the NHL players in the teeth by instead opting to kick them in the stomach.
Or perhaps the analogy should be more like how one hockey source with knowledge of the negotiations portrayed it to CSNNE.com: “You took a really [expletive] proposal and made it a little less [expletive]. But that still makes it pretty [expletive].”
When the players start with 57%, and it's coming down - and we all know it will, everything is going to look ******. The players had better get used to this and move on. Try and get the best deal possible... but know that like lasttime, they're still going to lose.
Look at Guerin's quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerin
"We could have waited two years and they would have waited us out -- I would have given an extra 2 percent back to play that year," Guerin said. "When you are in the heat of battle, and you are fired up, you don't think what they are doing is right. But it's not about what is right or wrong -- it's their league. It's theirs. I feel, personally, I didn't like guys giving up a year of their career, for what? A few less bucks? Guys are making more money now than they ever have."
The numbers you posted showed that salaries have grown faster than revenues.
I thought they had. The link was 54% of HRR at the start of this CBA, it's now 57% of HRR. With a constant definition of HRR, that means total salary payout has grown faster than HRR.
It got reduced 24% and now it has risen 64%, which is 30% than in it was BEFORE the lockout. And 3% every single year is a lot, especially when you're already making millions. I'm quoting Bill Guerin now, the players need to be quiet.
To all NBA players who stand unified against the godless owners, read these words of warning from a former NHL player about the reality of losing an entire season:
"It's not worth it. Get a deal done," former Dallas Stars forward Bill Guerin said during a phone call last week.
Quote:
"We could have waited two years and they would have waited us out -- I would have given an extra 2 percent back to play that year," Guerin said. "When you are in the heat of battle, and you are fired up, you don't think what they are doing is right. But it's not about what is right or wrong -- it's their league. It's theirs. I feel, personally, I didn't like guys giving up a year of their career, for what? A few less bucks? Guys are making more money now than they ever have."
Guerin works for the Flyers now, funny how things change when you change sides.
