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The Omark Thread: Willing to play in the AHL?

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Old
08-31-2012, 05:25 PM
  #76
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
With that logic, then I guess Brett Hull should be worth more than Lemieux or Yzerman.
No because Yzerman brought a lot of other elements and actually scored at a decent pace(37goals a year).

Also Lemieux scored at a higher rate than Hull.

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08-31-2012, 05:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
No because Yzerman brought a lot of other elements and actually scored at a decent pace(37goals a year).

Also Lemieux scored at a higher rate than Hull.
You just answer the question, you can't really compare the worth of a player to another based on just how many goals he can score and forgetting the rest.

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08-31-2012, 05:34 PM
  #78
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You just answer the question, you can't really compare the worth of a player based on how many goals he can score.
If you are a 30+ goal scorer you will get paid based on your ability to get goals. You can do nothing else and you'll get your money.

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08-31-2012, 06:18 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
If you are a 30+ goal scorer you will get paid based on your ability to get goals. You can do nothing else and you'll get your money.
So Michael Grabner, Kulemin, and Brenden Morrow should be paid handsomely well like Rick Nash?

The point of it all is this. There are alot of other tangibles and intangibles to measure the worth of a player then just goals. It really depends on what the team is looking for and the playing position will also dictate its needs and expectations. The center who scores alot of goals than assisting his wingers will probably not get full marks as opposed to a Joe Thornton who has help all his wingers score (ex. Marleau).

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08-31-2012, 07:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
So Michael Grabner, Kulemin, and Brenden Morrow should be paid handsomely well like Rick Nash?

The point of it all is this. There are alot of other tangibles and intangibles to measure the worth of a player then just goals. It really depends on what the team is looking for and the playing position will also dictate its needs and expectations. The center who scores alot of goals than assisting his wingers will probably not get full marks as opposed to a Joe Thornton who has help all his wingers score (ex. Marleau).
err....Morrow shouldn't really be listed as a "pure" goal scorer.

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08-31-2012, 07:57 PM
  #81
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err....Morrow shouldn't really be listed as a "pure" goal scorer.
No Kidding. My point exactly. Just making his point is not correct. Read his post, is there a word of "pure" goal scorer stated anywhere?

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08-31-2012, 08:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
I know very few astute hockey fans will agree with you on the above point. A point in assist is as good as a goal. You can't have a goal without the assist from someone. Really who cares how Omark gets his points as long as he contributed.
You don't even read what you put down do you? But I see its already been explained to you. I should stop right there as you have zero credibility in the discussion saying that. But consider how many players there are in the league that get 30 goals vs how many get 30 assists. Now consider what I'm telling you about which asset is more valuable. Goals and Assists are not equal. Odd as well that you're citing plurality here when nobody is agreeing with you.

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Omark is a rookie last year. So he had a higher minus of the plus/minus category-nothing new for a rookie playing extra minutes cause of the many injuries to the core group. Most of the team had bad plus/minuses not just Omark.
Cry cry cry. Poor Omark.

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It is common sense that moreso than not, a person coming to a new country will have more challenges to face couple with the fact that he was a rookie playing in a new league. There is added pressure.
So its common sense in your mind that Euro players take years longer before they are ready for action on this side of the pond? Somebody call central scouting. They might be interested in your theory..

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You are wrong.
I always love this in debate. "You're wrong" oh, er lolwut?


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During the late part of the season of 2011, Omark and PRV basically played big minutes because of all the injuries to the top 6, Renney did not have a choice.
Thats what I just finished saying.

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He was creative and made plays, hence his assists totals were greater. He made plays in the offensive zone and made a lot of tape to tape passes to PRV for pp goals. He was relentless while pursuing the puck and difficult to move a way from. The sports shows had commented on how creative Omark was with the puck showing at one time using his skate to move the puck out of the corner while his stick was tied up.
He steal pucks away from unsuspecting players. Not sure if you remember all the fine passes he made on the pp.
I'm not sure if you remember a player that didn't produce well enough at this level and certainly didn't score well enough at this level.





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You are grasping at straws.
lol. We're talking about a 25yr old Omark here that hasn't stuck in an NHL lineup and I'm grasping at straws.

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The fact Omark showed he can play on the team in some capacity esp on the pp in 2011.
The fact is that the team considers him expendable and did in 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and now. Who's grasping at straws in the face of reality of whats actually occurred?


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There was talk by some experts (Rishaug was one) that the Oilers should work some plays around Omark while on the pp because he is creative and smart.
Somebody tell the Oilers they got it all wrong..

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You seemed to dispell all of Omark's abilities while ignoring he was a rookie playing in North American soil for the first time in 2010-2011. The rookie had a 0.53 ppg in about 51 games or so. Those mistakes he has made was attritbuted to him being a rookie. He became less used once the regular players came back from injuries the next season. There was no room for a sophomore to have the ice time. He made some not so professional remarks about playing in the AHL because he was fiercely competitive. I am neither a fan or an Omark hater but after watching hockey for many years, you know when a player has it or not to play in the NHL- he just needed a chance to play more. I think we have said enough about Omark.
Clearly Omark doesn't have it at this point. Its why he's going to play in Switzerland.

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Old
08-31-2012, 09:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
You don't even read what you put down do you? But I see its already been explained to you. I should stop right there as you have zero credibility in the discussion saying that. But consider how many players there are in the league that get 30 goals vs how many get 30 assists. Now consider what I'm telling you about which asset is more valuable. Goals and Assists are not equal. Odd as well that you're citing plurality here when nobody is agreeing with you.

Cry cry cry. Poor Omark.

So its common sense in your mind that Euro players take years longer before they are ready for action on this side of the pond? Somebody call central scouting. They might be interested in your theory..


I always love this in debate. "You're wrong" oh, er lolwut?

Thats what I just finished saying.

I'm not sure if you remember a player that didn't produce well enough at this level and certainly didn't score well enough at this level.


lol. We're talking about a 25yr old Omark here that hasn't stuck in an NHL lineup and I'm grasping at straws.

The fact is that the team considers him expendable and did in 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and now. Who's grasping at straws in the face of reality of whats actually occurred?


Somebody tell the Oilers they got it all wrong..

Clearly Omark doesn't have it at this point. Its why he's going to play in Switzerland.
Why don't you read over my past posts again. Perhaps you will find the "hidden" answers. At this point, all I am doing is repeating myself. Good luck.

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09-01-2012, 10:04 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
So Michael Grabner, Kulemin, and Brenden Morrow should be paid handsomely well like Rick Nash?

The point of it all is this. There are alot of other tangibles and intangibles to measure the worth of a player then just goals. It really depends on what the team is looking for and the playing position will also dictate its needs and expectations. The center who scores alot of goals than assisting his wingers will probably not get full marks as opposed to a Joe Thornton who has help all his wingers score (ex. Marleau).
No because they didn't have Rick Nash potential. But Grabner got a 15mil contract after one year of goal scoring, Kulemin is getting close to 3mil a year because he has 30 goal potential.

But thanks for proving my point that guys that get 30 goals get paid. You won't see a guy that only gets 30 assists get that kind of money.

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09-01-2012, 10:48 AM
  #85
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SOOOOOOO many people bought "23" jerseys after the Tampa Bay game 2 seasons ago

Not going to lose sleep over it, but good luck to him anyways.

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09-01-2012, 12:36 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
No because they didn't have Rick Nash potential. But Grabner got a 15mil contract after one year of goal scoring, Kulemin is getting close to 3mil a year because he has 30 goal potential.

But thanks for proving my point that guys that get 30 goals get paid. You won't see a guy that only gets 30 assists get that kind of money.
Has Grabner's goals escalated after his 15 mil contract of one year of goal scoring? Right.
Rick Nash's potential and other players' potential have something to do with the worth of a player, you dont' say. Seems like you are contradicting your own points that goals are the only measuring stick for pay amounts to which I have countered a few times that there are other tangibles and intangibles that also make up a player's worth. Only a narrow sighted GM would give a one 30 goal season player a tremendous pay raise without looking at other performance indicators (past and present and future).

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09-01-2012, 12:45 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
Has Grabner's goals escalated after his 15 mil contract of one year of goal scoring? Right.
Rick Nash's potential and other players' potential have something to do with the worth of a player, you dont' say. Seems like you are contradicting your own points that goals are the only measuring stick for pay amounts to which I have countered a few times that there are other tangibles and intangibles that also make up a player's worth. Only a narrow sighted GM would give a one 30 goal season player a tremendous pay raise without looking at other performance indicators (past and present and future).
I've said all along a goal scorer is worth more than a playmaker. If you don't bring other elements teams won't keep a 30a playmaker around, they will keep a guy that does nothing but scorer 30 goals.

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09-01-2012, 01:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I've said all along a goal scorer is worth more than a playmaker. If you don't bring other elements teams won't keep a 30a playmaker around, they will keep a guy that does nothing but scorer 30 goals.
I would not say that as an absolute fact that a goal scorer is worth more than a play maker. It really depends on many factors- a team's needs, the player's playing position, what complimentary players are available etc. At the end of the day it comes down to the same conclusion- both playmaker and goal scorer have equal value and a player's worth cannot be measured only by the goals he can score but must include other performance indicators. GTG...

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09-01-2012, 01:04 PM
  #89
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Doesn't matter if it's a goal scorer, play maker/assist guy, PP/PK specialist.

Omark fits none of the above qualifications in the NHL.

He'll stay in Europe, where he belongs. Not that I don't want him to do well for himself...I do. But he will have to do his "thing" in the Swiss league, Swedish League, or KHL.

If any Swedish posters know though, why wan't he picked up by one of the Swedish Elite teams? Is he too old? Not good enough? Or maybe they didn't offer him enough money?

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09-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #90
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by SLURVE View Post
I would not say that as an absolute fact that a goal scorer is worth more than a play maker. It really depends on many factors- a team's needs, the player's playing position, what complimentary players are available etc. At the end of the day it comes down to the same conclusion- both playmaker and goal scorer have equal value and a player's worth cannot be measured only by the goals he can score but must include other performance indicators. GTG...
That's what we've been debating this whole time.

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09-01-2012, 02:10 PM
  #91
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Why don't you read over my past posts again. Perhaps you will find the "hidden" answers. At this point, all I am doing is repeating myself. Good luck.
I read them the first time. Your posts don't become more convincing with the second read. As I've stated you should try re-reading them to see why you haven't gained any traction in this exchange.

But hey, no worries, I know what its like to walk the path less travelled and defend a player thats getting the gears. We all have our favorites or players that elicit a different look.
At the end of the day we don't agree on the players worth.

One other thing on the goal scoring aspect. Several reasons why a player that can score goals as well as contribute assists is more dangerous. The guy that scores goals tends to get in downlow deep situations more often with the puck and is comfortable in those areas. This challenges the D, creates other openings, and creates D vulnerabilities. The really good players work it that way. With Omark teams started to learn a few things.
1)They could just look off him and cover passing lanes and allow him the puck from the periphery.
2)Just take a run at him and knock him over and gain puck. This is something I wondered why opponents didn't do in his first year here. I thought they were granting him too much space. But scouting reports kicked in and teams started to learn you could physically take Omark out and get the puck. Taking a few steps towards Omark was more effective in bouncing him off the puck then being in a scrum with him. This is basic physics. A player thats reasonably strong(Omark) can hang in there beyond his size if you are just trying to push him off the puck. Which is ineffective. But take a few steps and check him off the puck and he was vulnerable to that. He hangs onto the puck long enough that you can do that with Omark.

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09-01-2012, 07:55 PM
  #92
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"Matias Strozyk (@MaStrozyk)
Linus Omark scored the GWG and added two assists in his debut for Zug, a 4-2 win over ZSC. Was also named 3rd star of the game. #NHL #Oilers"

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09-01-2012, 08:05 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
"Matias Strozyk (@MaStrozyk)
Linus Omark scored the GWG and added two assists in his debut for Zug, a 4-2 win over ZSC. Was also named 3rd star of the game. #NHL #Oilers"
meh. We all know that he plays well against weaker competition. He's good, he's just not NHL calibre

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09-01-2012, 08:09 PM
  #94
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meh. We all know that he plays well against weaker competition. He's good, he's just not NHL calibre
I still would say he is nhl calibre. He will get another oppertunity further down the line and i hope comments like this will be proved wrong.

With that said, am very dissepointed he signed in Switzerland. Swiz league is alright, however he should have waited out the nhl firstly and secondly if his goal is to play in the nhl he should have went to the khl.
Going to switzerland to me atleast doesnt say "hey i want to be an nhler" to me that looks more like giving up.

But as some posters pointed out, if there is a lockout he probably will have a discent oppertunity to showcase himself. But then again maybe there isnt..

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09-01-2012, 10:24 PM
  #95
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I don't understand why Omark is even remotely relevant still.

He was mediocre at best when he came up, I guess he did some good things but obviously he's no better than Hall, Eberle or Yakupov so where does he fit in the top 6 for wingers? He can't be a bottom 6 winger, he's completely ineffective in that role.

I'd say for wingers Paajarvi, Hartikianen, Hamilton, Pitlick and Cornet are all better players that I'd rather have on the team.

Good luck in the Euro leagues ya dud.

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09-01-2012, 10:28 PM
  #96
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meh. We all know that he plays well against weaker competition. He's good, he's just not NHL calibre
I disagree, but I guess we'll see. Out of curiosity, how many NHL games/points does someone need to have had to remove all doubt that he is 'NHL-calibre'? Like, if in 7 years Omark heads back to Europe for good after playing four or five full 35-40 point seasons in the NHL, will that be good enough to say, 'okay, he had NHL game' or what? Where's the bar set at? Because I think there's a player there. Not good enough to crack the top two RW on this club, but still a good player.

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09-01-2012, 11:17 PM
  #97
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Will always cheer on Omark. Was always a fan. I don't get all the bitterness towards him that some fans display on here. To me that's actually pathetic. Wish him all the best in his career and hope he can make it back to the NHL one day ala Roman Cervenka or something like that. Cheers to you Linus, **** the haters!

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09-02-2012, 06:02 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect View Post
"Matias Strozyk (@MaStrozyk)
Linus Omark scored the GWG and added two assists in his debut for Zug, a 4-2 win over ZSC. Was also named 3rd star of the game. #NHL #Oilers"
The debute was the day before!Back to back games in european trophy against last years swiss champions zsc lions (with tambellini in the team)

They won home 4-1 omark behind 2 of the goals with 1 ass and 2 star of the game.
The awaygame they won with 4-2 omark with 1 g and 2 ass (1 star of the game).

Good start for linus with only 1 training with the team and he play in the 1 line with josh holden.

http://www.evz.ch/

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09-02-2012, 06:54 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
The debute was the day before!Back to back games in european trophy against last years swiss champions zsc lions (with tambellini in the team)

They won home 4-1 omark behind 2 of the goals with 1 ass and 2 star of the game.
The awaygame they won with 4-2 omark with 1 g and 2 ass (1 star of the game).

Good start for linus with only 1 training with the team and he play in the 1 line with josh holden.

http://www.evz.ch/
I was wondering how he could have had points on 3 of the 4 goals including the gwg and only got the 3rd star. This makes a lot more sense.


Last edited by Usual_Suspect: 09-02-2012 at 07:04 AM.
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09-02-2012, 06:55 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Will always cheer on Omark. Was always a fan. I don't get all the bitterness towards him that some fans display on here. To me that's actually pathetic. Wish him all the best in his career and hope he can make it back to the NHL one day ala Roman Cervenka or something like that. Cheers to you Linus, **** the haters!
Omark is still Oilers property. The better he does the more value he has as an asset. Not really sure why people cheer for him to do poorly.

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