Can I remind you that Ottawa Senators (NHL club) still holds rights of D Atyushov, who is 33 years old today. It is impossible in KHL. I dont say KHL rights rule is perfect, but NHLer´s is not ideal as well.
Are you sure that Lokomotiv traded Janus to Slovan? I am not. As cska78 said, it was only for try out, not season 2012/13. KHL uses to publish trades, NO WORD about Janus. And btw, Lokomotiv claims the same (yes, slovak media did not write about it). GM of Slovan would be idiot if he traded Janus rights before succesfull try out. Now, Janus had great try out, so Slovan needs to negotiate with Lokomotiv about trade. It sometimes happens that club changes opinion after a few days. Do you remember Janus situation in Tampa? May-April 2012 - Janus will be starter/ back up in AHL/call up in NHL next season. June-July 2012 Tampa traded/signed two goalies on one-way contract. Why? Why changed opinion? It is bussiness, it happens.
But it's a completely flawed system. Janus was more than likely going to be one of Slovan's netminders for the coming season along with Hostikka. At Loko he'll just be the third goalie when Sanford is back.
It's for another thread, but this KHL rights system is the most stupid rule in any hockey league in my opinion. Especially as they don't run out until 29!
Also, Janus said in an interview with Slovan's site last week that Lokomotiv had agreed he could play elsewhere for this season, but now they go back on their word.
it's a hairy situation for NHL, absolutely fine for Europe (I mean soccer teams have players try out for other teams while on contract all the time)...You were just looking for another reason to knock on the KHL and it's o'k it's your POV. KHL has plenty to be knocked on, but KHL does NOT have to copy NHL in everything they do.
You were just looking for another reason to knock on the KHL and it's o'k it's your POV. KHL has plenty to be knocked on, but KHL does NOT have to copy NHL in everything they do.
I'm not looking for a reason to knock the KHL. I do work with Slovan, and I'm glad that they have joined the KHL, but I find this rights system stupid. The KHL wants to expand into these countries, but so many of these players are now locked up until 29 years of age.
How are Slovan meant to bring through young Slovak players coming back from North America when they are attached to KHL clubs?
And Vorky, I'm going by what Janus said in the interview with the team, which was then posted on the Slovan website! He said in that interview that Lokomotiv were letting him play not for them
I'm not looking for a reason to knock the KHL. I do work with Slovan, and I'm glad that they have joined the KHL, but I find this rights system stupid. The KHL wants to expand into these countries, but so many of these players are now locked up until 29 years of age.
How are Slovan meant to bring through young Slovak players coming back from North America when they are attached to KHL clubs?
And Vorky, I'm going by what Janus said in the interview with the team, which was then posted on the Slovan website! He said in that interview that Lokomotiv were letting him play not for them
If he said that then it must've been obvious that it is not the whole truth. Nobody would just pass player's rights on somebody else for nothing.
How are Slovan meant to bring through young Slovak players coming back from North America when they are attached to KHL clubs?
This is simply stupid. Where in the rules of the league is written that Slovan must bring through young Slovak players?
Slovan should of joined the league earlier and then drafted players they wanted and that would be it. Should the fans of other clubs write bitter posts about players they won't be able to sign for their clubs because they are now drafted by Slovan? You can't get Janus, so look elsewhere.
And Vorky, I'm going by what Janus said in the interview with the team, which was then posted on the Slovan website! He said in that interview that Lokomotiv were letting him play not for them
I agree, he said it but the statement was not clear enough. We still dont know if the permision was for try out (and after that Loko decide if gives permission for season, maybe was verbal deal about it) OR Loko gave permission for whole season (as we can see, that did not happen). I dont work for Slovan, maybe you work, so you have better info.
One thing - why Slovan signed Janus for try out? Because Slovan wanted to test him? I dont think so, GM knows who Janus is. Janus wanted try out instead of contract for whole season? Nonsense, he wants contract for season as soon as possible. Slovan can not signed him for whole season because Loko did not give permission (no trade)? Seems, it is true. One more time, KHL did not confirm Janus trade. As I know, KHL confirms such things. I say it many times, dont believe slovak media (especially SITA, TASR) because they have NO knowledge about KHL.
Btw, Slovan can trade rights of slovaks. HC LEV Praha did it (D Mikus, F Cingel as I remember). As you know, trade does not work like in NHL, you can pay money for rights in KHL.
This is simply stupid. Where in the rules of the league is written that Slovan must bring through young Slovak players?
Slovan should of joined the league earlier and then drafted players they wanted and that would be it. Should the fans of other clubs write bitter posts about players they won't be able to sign for their clubs because they are now drafted by Slovan? You can't get Janus, so look elsewhere.
Because Slovan actually care about bringing through Slovakian players for the national team? It's been a big part of their team building process, which is why they signed guys like Dravecky, and kept guys like Bakos and Preisinger.
Also, in terms of marketing the team, to have native players playing for the one Slovak team in the KHL.
And it's not just because Slovan can't get Janus. The whole concept of the KHL draft is completely redundant IMO.
KHL draft has sense but people dont understand how russian developing system/trading in KHL works. End of story.
Spartak drafted D Mikus, this summer traded him to HC LEV Praha, got draft picks. Another story is to get money for drafted guys (after trade). It has sense, but it does not work like in NHL.
I'm not looking for a reason to knock the KHL. I do work with Slovan, and I'm glad that they have joined the KHL, but I find this rights system stupid. The KHL wants to expand into these countries, but so many of these players are now locked up until 29 years of age.
How are Slovan meant to bring through young Slovak players coming back from North America when they are attached to KHL clubs?
And Vorky, I'm going by what Janus said in the interview with the team, which was then posted on the Slovan website! He said in that interview that Lokomotiv were letting him play not for them
if you are working for Slovan and your team is about to join KHL let me tell you something in this league, rights for players a decided by contracts and draft, not by their nationality.
Because Slovan actually care about bringing through Slovakian players for the national team? It's been a big part of their team building process, which is why they signed guys like Dravecky, and kept guys like Bakos and Preisinger.
Also, in terms of marketing the team, to have native players playing for the one Slovak team in the KHL.
And it's not just because Slovan can't get Janus. The whole concept of the KHL draft is completely redundant IMO.
yes, the draft is kinda dumb, but yet some teams manage to take advantage of it. I think eventually draft will die out, because if schools in Russia are severed from PRO clubs they are dead.
yes, the draft is kinda dumb, but yet some teams manage to take advantage of it. I think eventually draft will die out, because if schools in Russia are severed from PRO clubs they are dead.
Plus the Draft is probably illegal in the European Union, thus in Latvia, Slovakia and other countries the KHL wants to expand to. No-one has gone to court so far and therefore it hasn't been adressed, but it's obvious that the Draft system is not compatible with the freedom of work guaranteed in the European Union. And since the Bosman Ruling we know that this also applies to sport clubs/franchises.
Plus the Draft is probably illegal in the European Union, thus in Latvia, Slovakia and other countries the KHL wants to expand to. No-one has gone to court so far and therefore it hasn't been adressed, but it's obvious that the Draft system is not compatible with the freedom of work guaranteed in the European Union. And since the Bosman Ruling we know that this also applies to sport clubs/franchises.
I agree with EU law, I have a doubt as well. Would be interesting to know what EU courts think about it. Important thing is that KHL uses russian law, not EU law, so who knows? And Russia is not member of EU. It is legal issue, so I dont know the answer
I agree with EU law, I have a doubt as well. Would be interesting to know what EU courts think about it. Important thing is that KHL uses russian law, not EU law, so who knows? And Russia is not member of EU. It is legal issue, so I dont know the answer
Well. I guess it would be legal to draft a player from a team based in a EU country and let him play in Russia if this is part of the contracts they sign (because it seems Russian working law allowes such things like the KHL draft) but it could be well the case that someone drafted by Slovan, Lev or Dinamo Riga can take legal steps according to EU working law against it.
Off course Russian (working) law has no effect in the EU as the players live and work here so the KHL has to respect EU jurisdiction (thats the negative aspect for them to expand to the West).
Well. I guess it would be legal to draft a player from a team based in a EU country and let him play in Russia if this is part of the contracts they sign (because it seems Russian working law allowes such things like the KHL draft) but it could be well the case that someone drafted by Slovan, Lev or Dinamo Riga can take legal steps according to EU working law against it.
Off course Russian (working) law has no effect in the EU as the players live and work here so the KHL has to respect EU jurisdiction (thats the negative aspect for them to expand to the West).
Exactly. Dinamo Riga, Lev Praha and Slovan Bratislava cannot draft EU citizens, at least not legally. With every additional KHL expansion franchise within the EU the likelihood of legal measures increases because more and more people are affected. Eventually all KHL franchises in the EU are going to be barred from the Junior Draft. (Or they're going to continue to particpate but only to draft Russians, Belarusians, Kazakhs.) For the same reason the NHL could never really expand to Europe until the Entry Draft is abolished.
The question is: Will franchises in Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus continue to do a draft or is the draft useless if not all KHL members are able to participate?
draft has nothing to do with law. It doesn't hold any legal ground and doesnt affect anything.
Its more like an agreement of clubs in the league. Basically clubs of the league agree not to offer work to a player drafted by another club. It doesnt take away any rights or affect the law. Slovan could for example offer work for a drafted player by another team. And hypothetically he could accept the job offer. No problem with the civil and labour laws, but they would be violating KHL regulations and would get a fine or maybe get kicked out of the league. either way other clubs just dont try to sign other players. so i dont understand how you see it as a legal issue
Lets imagine this situation. Slovan Bratislava drafts a czech player at his 17y old, this player does not sign contract with Slovan, he left to Canada, Slovan has his KHL rights until he is 29y old (hope). The player comes back to Europe, he is 20y old now. He wants to sign deal with HC LEV Praha but Slovan refuses to trade him. Is it ok according to EU labour law? Is not it similar to Bosman case?
1.Can EU court consider this case? KHL rules are based on russian law, not EU. On the other hand, the player and both clubs are from EU
2.There is a restriction on the free movement of workers (players) because the player does not have valid contract with Slovan but at the same time he can not sign with HC LEV.
Lets imagine this situation. Slovan Bratislava drafts a czech player at his 17y old, this player does not sign contract with Slovan, he left to Canada, Slovan has his KHL rights until he is 29y old (hope). The player comes back to Europe, he is 20y old now. He wants to sign deal with HC LEV Praha but Slovan refuses to trade him. Is it ok according to EU labour law? Is not it similar to Bosman case?
That's a really good example why the Draft is against EU law actually.
draft has nothing to do with law. It doesn't hold any legal ground and doesnt affect anything.
Its more like an agreement of clubs in the league. Basically clubs of the league agree not to offer work to a player drafted by another club. It doesnt take away any rights or affect the law. Slovan could for example offer work for a drafted player by another team. And hypothetically he could accept the job offer. No problem with the civil and labour laws, but they would be violating KHL regulations and would get a fine or maybe get kicked out of the league. either way other clubs just dont try to sign other players. so i dont understand how you see it as a legal issue
The agreement is limiting the players' choice to one franchise, in other words: it is eliminating his choice = freedom of movement for work. Now if it was a simple agreement between the clubs then it wouldn't be a legal issue. But as soon as there are KHL regulations and penalties enforcing the agreement you have a collective regulation of work. Collective regulations of work eliminating the freedom of movement for workers are illegal in the EU according to the Bosman ruling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky
Lets imagine this situation. Slovan Bratislava drafts a czech player at his 17y old, this player does not sign contract with Slovan, he left to Canada, Slovan has his KHL rights until he is 29y old (hope). The player comes back to Europe, he is 20y old now. He wants to sign deal with HC LEV Praha but Slovan refuses to trade him. Is it ok according to EU labour law? Is not it similar to Bosman case?
1.Can EU court consider this case? KHL rules are based on russian law, not EU. On the other hand, the player and both clubs are from EU
A citizen of the European Union is denied his freedom to work for whomever he wants to work for. EU courts can and will consider this case. Russian law means nothing in the European Union. If a Chinese company expands to Europe it doesn't bring Chinese work law along. The Company has to obey EU law and treat its employees accordingly.
If the player in your example goes to court, the participation of Lev/Slovan/Riga in the KHL entry draft is history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky
2.There is a restriction on the free movement of workers (players) because the player does not have valid contract with Slovan but at the same time he can not sign with HC LEV.
Exactly. Such a ruling might be legal in Russia (and in North America too), but not in the European Union.
draft has nothing to do with law. It doesn't hold any legal ground and doesnt affect anything.
Its more like an agreement of clubs in the league. Basically clubs of the league agree not to offer work to a player drafted by another club. It doesnt take away any rights or affect the law. Slovan could for example offer work for a drafted player by another team. And hypothetically he could accept the job offer. No problem with the civil and labour laws, but they would be violating KHL regulations and would get a fine or maybe get kicked out of the league. either way other clubs just dont try to sign other players. so i dont understand how you see it as a legal issue
This works as long as the powerhouses (and money) come from Russia. Imagine Lev Praha becoming the big shot in KHL. They would sign whoever they can, regardless of drafts (since it's ok with EU ruling) 'cause they wouldn't risk to get kicked out. As long as the EU teams are underdogs (sorry...) no problem.. Should they ever become really powerful....we'll see
This is simply stupid. Where in the rules of the league is written that Slovan must bring through young Slovak players?
