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David Desharnais next contract

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Old
08-30-2012, 12:24 PM
  #376
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If Kyle Turris can get 3,5 per year ... DD can certainly get 1 million more...

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08-31-2012, 01:16 AM
  #377
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turris is still about potential. DD clearly has reached his.

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08-31-2012, 03:14 AM
  #378
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If Kyle Turris can get 3,5 per year ... DD can certainly get 1 million more...

If DD continues his point production like last season he is definitly a 4M guy, i dont feel he should get anymore then PAC though

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08-31-2012, 08:18 AM
  #379
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turris is still about potential. DD clearly has reached his.
His ppg average went up in all 3 seasons he has touched NHL ice. Why are you so certain he has reached his maximum potential? He only had his first full NHL season last year and he put up 60 points! This is a guy that most people thought would never make the NHL. Not only did he make it, he put up 60 points as a rookie. I don't think he has reached his full potential, yet, and from what I can see everyone who bet against this kid over the years has been proven wrong.

Of course, if DD is "only" a 60 point producing center throughout his career, I can live with that. I just don't think he has topped out his potential.

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08-31-2012, 08:20 AM
  #380
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I'd like to see him extended 2 years and 7 mil. Safe contract for both sides...Habs don't commit too much cap hit or length in case his play drops off and DD gets a chance to prive he can string together a couple more 60 point seasons.

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08-31-2012, 09:12 AM
  #381
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Mikhail Grabovski is a player who, like Desharnais, can score 60 points over 80 games, but he does it with mediocre linemates and he does it with a much higher goals to assists ratio. He recently got 5 million per season, but that's a free agent contract.

So given that Desharnais is an RFA and his contributions thus far are strictly inferior to Grabovski who is a UFA, I'd say 3.5 million per season maximum.

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08-31-2012, 09:33 AM
  #382
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His ppg average went up in all 3 seasons he has touched NHL ice. Why are you so certain he has reached his maximum potential? He only had his first full NHL season last year and he put up 60 points! This is a guy that most people thought would never make the NHL. Not only did he make it, he put up 60 points as a rookie. I don't think he has reached his full potential, yet, and from what I can see everyone who bet against this kid over the years has been proven wrong.

Of course, if DD is "only" a 60 point producing center throughout his career, I can live with that. I just don't think he has topped out his potential.
i my was so obvious that a would have been slightly redundant. i don't believe he's done improving, at all

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08-31-2012, 10:46 AM
  #383
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Mikhail Grabovski is a player who, like Desharnais, can score 60 points over 80 games, but he does it with mediocre linemates and he does it with a much higher goals to assists ratio. He recently got 5 million per season, but that's a free agent contract.

So given that Desharnais is an RFA and his contributions thus far are strictly inferior to Grabovski who is a UFA, I'd say 3.5 million per season maximum.
At the moment? Probably. I'd probably offer him a 2-year, 6.5 total at the moment.

At the end of next season, if next season there is... Not so much, even if DD ends up with similar production.

If DD accepts 3.5 Mwith a 60 points season (or a prorated 60 points season), that means one thing, and only one thing : the guy took a serious hometown discount.

One more thing : Grabovski never proved he could be a 60-point center, cause he never actually reached 60 points. Came close, but never did, when he was 27 years old. That season, Grabs was a Top-6 guy for the whole season. Something Desharnais has yet to be -- Desharnais only got promoted to Top-6 status after 15 games or so last season. And he wasn't playing with Cole to begin the season, either. In fact, one could say that Cole picked it up when he started playing with Desharnais.

If Desharnais would have spent the whole season in the Top-6, a 70-pts season was certainly in his reach (would likely NOT have gotten it, but would have been darn close), and that would have made DD as much a 70pt guy than Grabovski is a 60pt guy (in other words... close to it, but not... yet). All the while being 2 years younger than Grabo was for his best season.

DD at 3.5 at the end of next season, if he has a similar season than the one he had in 2011-12, would imply he took a hometown discount. And one of the best deals league-wise for a guy in his mid-twenties who is, probably, a 65-pt player. Granted, Grabs contract is horrible and shouldn't be a reference.

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08-31-2012, 10:32 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Mikhail Grabovski is a player who, like Desharnais, can score 60 points over 80 games, but he does it with mediocre linemates and he does it with a much higher goals to assists ratio. He recently got 5 million per season, but that's a free agent contract.

So given that Desharnais is an RFA and his contributions thus far are strictly inferior to Grabovski who is a UFA, I'd say 3.5 million per season maximum.
Grabovski has not scored 60 points, yet. He came close, but has yet to do it. Desharnais has also NOT played a full season with top linemates, he played around 68 games with Cole and Pacioretty. DD has already shown he can perform better than Grabovski in just his first full season. Yes, Grabovski is more of a goal scorer. luckily for us, DD NEEDS to be a puck distributor because he has two fantastic goal scorers on his wings.

I doubt we get DD for 3.5 per season. I don't think we should offer him more than Pacioretty, though. Somewhere around 4 mil per season would be acceptable.

I will do my best to remember who I am discussing things with, this time...

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08-31-2012, 11:33 PM
  #385
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At the moment? Probably. I'd probably offer him a 2-year, 6.5 total at the moment.

At the end of next season, if next season there is... Not so much, even if DD ends up with similar production.

If DD accepts 3.5 Mwith a 60 points season (or a prorated 60 points season), that means one thing, and only one thing : the guy took a serious hometown discount.

One more thing : Grabovski never proved he could be a 60-point center, cause he never actually reached 60 points. Came close, but never did, when he was 27 years old. That season, Grabs was a Top-6 guy for the whole season. Something Desharnais has yet to be -- Desharnais only got promoted to Top-6 status after 15 games or so last season. And he wasn't playing with Cole to begin the season, either. In fact, one could say that Cole picked it up when he started playing with Desharnais.

If Desharnais would have spent the whole season in the Top-6, a 70-pts season was certainly in his reach (would likely NOT have gotten it, but would have been darn close), and that would have made DD as much a 70pt guy than Grabovski is a 60pt guy (in other words... close to it, but not... yet). All the while being 2 years younger than Grabo was for his best season.

DD at 3.5 at the end of next season, if he has a similar season than the one he had in 2011-12, would imply he took a hometown discount. And one of the best deals league-wise for a guy in his mid-twenties who is, probably, a 65-pt player. Granted, Grabs contract is horrible and shouldn't be a reference.
In the past three seasons, Grabovski has scored 62 goals and 82 assists in 214 games. That's a pace of 29 goals and 38 assists (67 points) per 82 games, slightly more total points but with a much higher goals to assists ratio. If you want to hold his injuries against him that's fine, but he's averaged 71 games played per year which is pretty good. Desharnais didn't get injured this year, some players rarely do, but on average most do.

Moreover, whereas Desharnais plays with Cole and Pacioretty, Grabovski plays with Kulemin and McCarthur. Would you trade Cole and Pacioretty for Kulemin and McCarthur? No, because Desharnais had better linemates.

Right now, it is clear that Grabovski > Desharnais.


Last edited by DAChampion: 09-01-2012 at 01:21 AM.
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09-01-2012, 04:41 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
His ppg average went up in all 3 seasons he has touched NHL ice. Why are you so certain he has reached his maximum potential? He only had his first full NHL season last year and he put up 60 points! This is a guy that most people thought would never make the NHL. Not only did he make it, he put up 60 points as a rookie. I don't think he has reached his full potential, yet, and from what I can see everyone who bet against this kid over the years has been proven wrong.

Of course, if DD is "only" a 60 point producing center throughout his career, I can live with that. I just don't think he has topped out his potential.
you call 6 games a season ?

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09-01-2012, 05:38 PM
  #387
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you call 6 games a season ?
No, I call 6 games exactly what it is: 6 games in a season. If you play games in A season, that is still A season of the NHL, just not a full season for the player. The reality is, though, he touched the ice in a Habs uniform in 3 different seasons, and his PPG average went up in each. Facts are simple and easy to find. Glad I could you again...

I will do my best not to confuse you with DAChampion this time...

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09-01-2012, 07:15 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
No, I call 6 games exactly what it is: 6 games in a season. If you play games in A season, that is still A season of the NHL, just not a full season for the player. The reality is, though, he touched the ice in a Habs uniform in 3 different seasons, and his PPG average went up in each. Facts are simple and easy to find. Glad I could you again...

I will do my best not to confuse you with DAChampion this time...
6 games is a laughable sample size to talk about PPG. Best ignore that season althogether if you want your argument to have any weight.

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09-01-2012, 08:39 PM
  #389
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i'd give him 15m over 4 years. One of my favorite hab.
he gets traded . Galchenyuk is #1 center , pleks is a solid #2

no room for a midget anymore

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09-01-2012, 10:05 PM
  #390
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In the past three seasons, Grabovski has scored 62 goals and 82 assists in 214 games. That's a pace of 29 goals and 38 assists (67 points) per 82 games, slightly more total points but with a much higher goals to assists ratio. If you want to hold his injuries against him that's fine, but he's averaged 71 games played per year which is pretty good. Desharnais didn't get injured this year, some players rarely do, but on average most do.

Moreover, whereas Desharnais plays with Cole and Pacioretty, Grabovski plays with Kulemin and McCarthur. Would you trade Cole and Pacioretty for Kulemin and McCarthur? No, because Desharnais had better linemates.

Right now, it is clear that Grabovski > Desharnais.
...You fail at maths.

144 points, 214 games.

67 points per 82 games?

I won't even lose time to compute this. It doesn't make sense and that's roughly 55 points per 82 games.

That is actually drunk counting. Which probably mean i can count better drunk than you can count sober.

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09-01-2012, 10:07 PM
  #391
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he gets traded . Galchenyuk is #1 center , pleks is a solid #2

no room for a midget anymore
...DD gets traded for what?

And Gally is certainly NOT a 1st C. Yet.

Pleks might be gone before DD based on salary. But DD might be gone before Pleks due to contract being up sooner.

Besides, I think there are things Bergy won't do, and trade DD are exactly one of them. DD is a guy that has the potential to be an extremely efficient, low-maintenance scoring forward. Not a perfect player at all, and best prospect is to use him a bit like Brière. But, last time I checked, the Habs cannot exactly afford to get rid of a 60 pt player.


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09-01-2012, 10:26 PM
  #392
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...You fail at maths.

144 points, 214 games.

67 points per 82 games?

I won't even lose time to compute this. It doesn't make sense and that's roughly 55 points per 82 games.

That is actually drunk counting. Which probably mean i can count better drunk than you can count sober.
I get 0. I neglected to multiply by 82/100.

Ok, Grabovsky's production comes out to 24 goals and 31 assists per 82 games. He is equivalent to Desharnais on paper if 8 more goals is worth 13 fewer assists. However, he did this at an older age and with more experience, whereas Desharnais did what he did with better linemates and more PP time.

I said Grabovsky > Desharnais, I'll replace that with Grabovski = Desharnais.

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09-01-2012, 10:37 PM
  #393
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In the past three seasons, Grabovski has scored 62 goals and 82 assists in 214 games. That's a pace of 29 goals and 38 assists (67 points) per 82 games, slightly more total points but with a much higher goals to assists ratio. If you want to hold his injuries against him that's fine, but he's averaged 71 games played per year which is pretty good. Desharnais didn't get injured this year, some players rarely do, but on average most do.

Moreover, whereas Desharnais plays with Cole and Pacioretty, Grabovski plays with Kulemin and McCarthur. Would you trade Cole and Pacioretty for Kulemin and McCarthur? No, because Desharnais had better linemates.

Right now, it is clear that Grabovski > Desharnais.
DD has had better point totals over his first 3 seasons in the NHL than Grabovski did.

Grabovski has a career average of 51 points per 82 game season if you look at his career ppg average. Over the last 3 year, Grabovski averaged .67 ppg which translates into an average of 55 points per season. He has never scored 60 points, nor has he averaged a 60 ppg pace. By the way, using the last 3 seasons, Grabovski averages 23 goals per 82 game season, not 29, and he averages 31 assists per 82 game season, not 38. We need DD to set-up Cole and Pacioretty far more than we need DD to try and score goals.

Yes, DD has line mates that have done better than the ones Grabovski has. Did you ever think that DD was a major part of the reason his line mates are better? DD is the perfect complementary player for Cole and Pacioretty, a player who will get them the puck so they can score.

Call me when Grabovski has a better season than DD before trying to tell me Grabovski is better.

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09-01-2012, 10:47 PM
  #394
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Did you ever think that DD was a major part of the reason his line mates are better?
Pacioretty had the same goals per game in 2011-2012 as he did in 2010-2011. He did better this year because Chara behaved.

Cole indeed did better with David Desharnais than he did with Eric Staal.

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09-01-2012, 10:52 PM
  #395
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Pacioretty had the same goals per game in 2011-2012 as he did in 2010-2011. He did better this year because Chara behaved.

Cole indeed did better with David Desharnais than he did with Eric Staal.
Cole was only better on the powerplay, his ES numbers are basically identical to what he's been doing for years. If anything interesting happened to his linemates on even strength it was that Pacioretty in 2011-12 was a much better scorer than E Staal in 2010-11 (44 vs 52 points in less ice-time).

And claiming Desharnais made Cole a better PP scorer doesn't really change much when we're talking about ES lines, and seems a like a weak argument if the rest of the PP was suffering while he was doing so.

Pacioretty became a far better ES goal scorer but that's largely attributable to him finally converting on the tremendous amount of chances he generates and a bit of development from 21-22 and somewhat more ice-time. Plus he got an assist bump from playing with better goal scorers at RW and C in Cole and Desharnais over Gionta and Gomez.

Once you begin breaking down the results by component it becomes a lot more difficult to see a real improvement to those two's scoring that can be attributed to Desharnais. The only real change is in Pacioretty's shooting percentage I think that was more a matter of good vs bad randomness which is typically the case for shooting percentage in single seasons.


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09-01-2012, 10:53 PM
  #396
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I get 0. I neglected to multiply by 82/100.

Ok, Grabovsky's production comes out to 24 goals and 31 assists per 82 games. He is equivalent to Desharnais on paper if 8 more goals is worth 13 fewer assists. However, he did this at an older age and with more experience, whereas Desharnais did what he did with better linemates and more PP time.

I said Grabovsky > Desharnais, I'll replace that with Grabovski = Desharnais.
So 55 points is equal to 60 points in terms of production?? Scoring 8 more goals is better for personal stats, maybe, but I would rather the 13 more assists from the set-up player on our top line. More points means more production, overall. Let Pacioretty and Cole get the goals. Let DD distribute the puck. Let Grabovski stick with the Leafs, especially at HIS salary (5.5 million per!)...LOL. DD's first full season is already better than ANY of Grabovski's seasons in the NHL.

Like I said, call me when Grabovski gets more points than DD before you call him better. In that vein, call me when Grabovski gets as many points as DD before claiming they are equal. Look at Grabovski's first full season in the NHL and compare his rookie numbers to DD's. Not even close. I know which player I prefer. His initials are "DD".


Last edited by Drydenwasthebest: 09-01-2012 at 10:56 PM. Reason: added salary numbers
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09-02-2012, 01:32 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I get 0. I neglected to multiply by 82/100.

Ok, Grabovsky's production comes out to 24 goals and 31 assists per 82 games. He is equivalent to Desharnais on paper if 8 more goals is worth 13 fewer assists. However, he did this at an older age and with more experience, whereas Desharnais did what he did with better linemates and more PP time.

I said Grabovsky > Desharnais, I'll replace that with Grabovski = Desharnais.
DA I think you got pissed last night. Your arithmetic, (people call it math, it's not math,it's adding numbers), is a bit pear shaped this weekend. Not your usual precision.

I enjoyed a good bottle of Cabernet last night myself. Australian. Rich and fruity. Not fruity as in gay, just fruity.Not that I care if any guys here are gay....OK now I'm wandering.

Grabs=DD? Maybe. But DD is chez nous, and that counts. Grabs is very very fast though. I always loved the little bugger's speed.

I'd still say Grabs>DD, but as long as we're talking long term 3rd line Centers, I'd take DD. Heart of gold, and smart.

Just don't ask me to agree with DD on 1 or 2 unit after this year.

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09-02-2012, 03:17 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
No, I call 6 games exactly what it is: 6 games in a season. If you play games in A season, that is still A season of the NHL, just not a full season for the player. The reality is, though, he touched the ice in a Habs uniform in 3 different seasons, and his PPG average went up in each. Facts are simple and easy to find. Glad I could you again...

I will do my best not to confuse you with DAChampion this time...
I suggest you dont, you didnt look all that great the last time you did...

and I'm being polite here

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09-02-2012, 08:23 AM
  #399
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I suggest you dont, you didnt look all that great the last time you did...

and I'm being polite here
No worries.

The facts were right, it was the people I replied to that were wrong....

Lol. I have no issue with making and correcting my own mistakes. I just ask others to do the same. I DO appreciate the you are offering me, though.

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09-02-2012, 04:17 PM
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So 55 points is equal to 60 points in terms of production?? Scoring 8 more goals is better for personal stats, maybe, but I would rather the 13 more assists from the set-up player on our top line. More points means more production, overall. Let Pacioretty and Cole get the goals. Let DD distribute the puck. Let Grabovski stick with the Leafs, especially at HIS salary (5.5 million per!)...LOL. DD's first full season is already better than ANY of Grabovski's seasons in the NHL.

Like I said, call me when Grabovski gets more points than DD before you call him better. In that vein, call me when Grabovski gets as many points as DD before claiming they are equal. Look at Grabovski's first full season in the NHL and compare his rookie numbers to DD's. Not even close. I know which player I prefer. His initials are "DD".
they are both worth zilch on your top 6

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