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Rick Nash+S.Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part III)

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Old
08-29-2012, 03:22 PM
  #451
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For a team like the Rangers who rarely drafts in the top-10 of any draft to get a top-end player there are very few paths to take. Free agency, hope to hit a home-run in the draft, or trade.

They have been, and continue to be able to stockpile the depth pieces, 2nd/3rd/4th line, 2nd pairing players who many teams covet. If they can continue to do that they will be able to afford to make these types of deals.

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08-29-2012, 06:02 PM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
10/10. A lot of people, including me, complain about a lot but I don't think we should...This was a good move. In reality what we traded away made most room for Nash's money. And IMO... Nash, Kreider>Dubinsky, Arty... not saying I don't like them, I loved them. But when a big opportunity to get a great player for as little as we traded...get it done, got it done, would do it again
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
For a team like the Rangers who rarely drafts in the top-10 of any draft to get a top-end player there are very few paths to take. Free agency, hope to hit a home-run in the draft, or trade.

They have been, and continue to be able to stockpile the depth pieces, 2nd/3rd/4th line, 2nd pairing players who many teams covet. If they can continue to do that they will be able to afford to make these types of deals.
These posts make a great point.

For years the Rangers have taken chances on players when they either A. Couldn't afford to do so, or B. Had no reason to do so, taking on players for the sake of taking them on and hoping they would be the answer.

For once, this team has strategically placed itself in a position to make a trace like this and they're getting flack for it? Unbelievable. You make this trade 8 days a week and twice on Sundays before pasta dinner without thinking twice.

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08-30-2012, 08:40 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
For a team like the Rangers who rarely drafts in the top-10 of any draft to get a top-end player there are very few paths to take. Free agency, hope to hit a home-run in the draft, or trade.

They have been, and continue to be able to stockpile the depth pieces, 2nd/3rd/4th line, 2nd pairing players who many teams covet. If they can continue to do that they will be able to afford to make these types of deals.
Yep. To be honest, I didn't think it would work out, but they've done a surprisingly good job developing young role players. The team we have in place right now is very formidable on paper, and we don't have that huge drop-off in terms of talent waiting in the wings like many teams do when they've "cashed in their chips" so to speak.

This team has managed to undo some major gaffs in it's recent history with some shrewd FA signings, quality drafting, and miracle trades. Hope it stays this way. Knock on wood.

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08-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #454
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The thing is that the Rangers will never be able to draft like Pittsburgh so they're going to have to hope that one or two of the middle to late round picks pan(s) out.

The team needed top line talent and getting Nash was exactly the move Slats needed to make. IMO we have about a 3-4 year window to win the Cup once or twice and those opportunities haven't come around often for this franchise.

Lundqvist, Nash, Richards, Gaborik, Staal, Callahan, Girardi are in their prime and the young guys like Kreider, DZ, McD etc. have some experience under their belt. If not next year then the year after that they could be the favorites to win the Cup and the team should be at its strongest - provided the core stays intact and guys don't get injured. Or let's say Lundqvist shouldn't get injured. If that happens then all bets are off.

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09-02-2012, 02:10 PM
  #455
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Any idea what the forward lineup is going to be? Kreider guaranteed a spot in the top 6?

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09-02-2012, 02:28 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Any idea what the forward lineup is going to be? Kreider guaranteed a spot in the top 6?
Without Gaborik:

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Kreider/Hagelin-Stepan-Kreider/Hagelin
Pyatt-Boyle-(rookie)
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

With Gaborik (assuming rookie gets sent back down) :

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Pyatt-Boyle-Hagelin
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

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09-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by tomcatNYR View Post
The thing is that the Rangers will never be able to draft like Pittsburgh so they're going to have to hope that one or two of the middle to late round picks pan(s) out.
Really? Do you mean that the Penguins are that much smarter than the Rangers or the NHL cheats to help the Penguins draft higher?

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09-02-2012, 04:21 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Really? Do you mean that the Penguins are that much smarter than the Rangers or the NHL cheats to help the Penguins draft higher?
I think the latter is definitely the case.

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09-02-2012, 06:33 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
Without Gaborik:

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Kreider/Hagelin-Stepan-Kreider/Hagelin
Pyatt-Boyle-(rookie)
Asham-Halpern-Rupp

With Gaborik (assuming rookie gets sent back down) :

Nash-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Pyatt-Boyle-Hagelin
Asham-Halpern-Rupp
Sweet. Either way he looks like he is destined for a top 6 spot.

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09-02-2012, 08:16 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
For a team like the Rangers who rarely drafts in the top-10 of any draft to get a top-end player there are very few paths to take. Free agency, hope to hit a home-run in the draft, or trade.

They have been, and continue to be able to stockpile the depth pieces, 2nd/3rd/4th line, 2nd pairing players who many teams covet. If they can continue to do that they will be able to afford to make these types of deals.
there are plenty of top players picked after the rangers pick every year...picking in the top 10 helps but doesn't guarantee anything either.

there is a reason why some teams like nj and det pick late in the 1st round every year but continue to draft and develop players and remain competitive and teams like columbus and the isles pick top 5ish and continue to suck

and we have stockpiled those players cause those are the type of players we've drafted. we have focused on character, seemingly at times at the expense of talent, but there has been plenty of top talent that we passed on.

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09-02-2012, 10:26 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
there are plenty of top players picked after the rangers pick every year...picking in the top 10 helps but doesn't guarantee anything either.

there is a reason why some teams like nj and det pick late in the 1st round every year but continue to draft and develop players and remain competitive and teams like columbus and the isles pick top 5ish and continue to suck

and we have stockpiled those players cause those are the type of players we've drafted. we have focused on character, seemingly at times at the expense of talent, but there has been plenty of top talent that we passed on.
Other than Claude Giroux, what big time scorers have we missed out on since we started drafting well in 04? It's too early to tell on Tarasenko versus McIlrath, but that pick seemed more about filling a role than focusing on character. Clark and Gorton definitely have an affinity for guys with the right stuff, but I don't see any shortage on talent in their picks.

Of the top 10 scorers in the league this year you have four first overall picks, a second overall, a third overall, a fifth overall, and three other guys. So yeah, it's possible to get a guy like that outside the top 10, but it happens very, very rarely. You can't expect a constant influx of star scorers. Yes you'd like to steal one in the draft every few years (and Kreider might be just that), but for continued success you're going to have to look to make a deal to bring in talent every so often.

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09-02-2012, 10:46 PM
  #462
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we could always end up with both thomas and miller by the time the season starts at this rate... and sauer and mcilrath... which would make kreider on the 3rd line make more sense IMO

1- hagelin/richards/gaborik
2- nash/stepan/callahan
3- kreider/miller/thomas
4- rupp/boyle/pyatt|halpern|asham

a- girardi/mcdonagh
b- staal/sauer
c- del zotto/mcilrath
(d prob will be all over the place)

upsides to each line:
1- hagelin is a puck chaser. his speed, agility, and stamina forces turnovers and creates space. richards and gaborik both have strong shots and creativity to jump on the turnovers.
2- nash is an opportunistic player. stepan doesn't have the best shot, but he always aims for bouncy areas in order to set up juicy rebounds. nash would be jumping on them nonstop. nash can force turnovers. stepan can as well. both are very creative. nash and callahan are both physical guys; nash of course having size and speed. callahan likes tap ins and redirections.
3- kreider and miller should make up for thomas' size. kreider and miller 'should' both be physical. all three have some creativity-- thomas probably having the most. decent hands/shots all around. being all rookies can be benched when games are too tight without effective chemistry(of course kreider may still earn some extra shifts)
4- big bodied checking line with grit. decent defensively. depends who plays. we have strong depth if miller/thomas end up being ready by the start of a shortened season.

downsides to each line:
1- no real size. hagelin can't finish like kreider.
2- nash is only speed. has to create space for himself. stepan's shot
3- all rookies. mistakes bound to happen. thomas' size. board work likely will lack from three rookies. kreider will likely see less minutes than in the top six. lose out on that strict checking 3rd line torts seems to love so much
4- no real speed or playmaking. goals would all be grinds. strong 4th line though imo


Defense overview
a. mcdonagh's speed is better to match the top lines than staal's(albeit not slow). girardi is physical. mcdonagh is not
b. staal's physical. sauer is a tank when healthy. staal likes being more aggressive, sauer likes hanging back. compliment each other's styles well.
c. mcilrath and del zotto are both very physical. del zotto is more free to produce with mcilrath protecting him. mcilrath will get least playing time with mdz while he adjusts, but mdz can still play on the PP.


Last edited by Kreider Typical: 09-02-2012 at 11:33 PM. Reason: added reasoning
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09-03-2012, 12:56 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Really? Do you mean that the Penguins are that much smarter than the Rangers or the NHL cheats to help the Penguins draft higher?
No, neither.

As was already said, the Rangers will always be good enough / not bad enough to stay out of the cellar and not get any top-3 picks to select the best players of their generation. That's the difference. Nothing wrong in that, just saying that the Rangers will probably never be able to go down that road.

That leaves us free agency and trades and so far Sather has been trading pretty well post-lockout and his FA signings have also gotten better by the time.

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09-04-2012, 07:25 AM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
there are plenty of top players picked after the rangers pick every year...picking in the top 10 helps but doesn't guarantee anything either.

there is a reason why some teams like nj and det pick late in the 1st round every year but continue to draft and develop players and remain competitive and teams like columbus and the isles pick top 5ish and continue to suck

and we have stockpiled those players cause those are the type of players we've drafted. we have focused on character, seemingly at times at the expense of talent, but there has been plenty of top talent that we passed on.
You are speaking to the exceptions rather than the rules. Detroit has been a very good team for so long because they were able to hit home-runs delving into Russia and Sweden prior to most teams. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Holmstrom, Lidstrom.

Do they draft well? Of course. But even most Detroit fans know that once Datsyuk and Zetterberg start to falter they will have some problems filling those top slots.

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09-04-2012, 07:34 PM
  #465
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I love reading those comments about not wanting Rick Nash to fight....Jerome Iginla and Daavid Backes fight and id take both of them on the Rangers.

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09-04-2012, 10:08 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
I love reading those comments about not wanting Rick Nash to fight....Jerome Iginla and Daavid Backes fight and id take both of them on the Rangers.
What are you trying to prove? All you seem to care about when we add someone to the roster is whether he fights. Does Kreider fight? Will Nash fight? Who ****ing cares? We got him to score goals and win us games. He can't do that with his ass in the penalty box and his head bashed in. He's got eight career fights going back to juniors. I've got news for you. He's not going to be dropping the gloves much. We didn't give up four big assets and commit $7.8 million in cap space over the next six years for him to be Mike Rupp.

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09-04-2012, 10:14 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
What are you trying to prove? All you seem to care about when we add someone to the roster is whether he fights. Does Kreider fight? Will Nash fight? Who ****ing cares? We got him to score goals and win us games. He can't do that with his ass in the penalty box and his head bashed in. He's got eight career fights going back to juniors. I've got news for you. He's not going to be dropping the gloves much. We didn't give up four big assets and commit $7.8 million in cap space over the next six years for him to be Mike Rupp.
This. x1000. All he ever cares about is fighting. This isn't Slap Shot. This isn't "old time hockey." The league is much different now. It is quicker, more skilled. You need to score goals. I'm not saying that wasn't a concept in the past, but it is more emphasized now. We have guys to drop the gloves. That's why we signed Rupp, Asham, Haley, Bickel, etc. Geez I'm sick of seeing posts about fighting, especially when it's asked of your goal scorers.

Nash isn't going to be fighting in the playoffs, why should he be fighting in the regular season? To satisfy one fan's sick obsession with dropping the gloves? Stupid, just stupid.

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09-05-2012, 12:00 AM
  #468
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What are you trying to prove? All you seem to care about when we add someone to the roster is whether he fights. Does Kreider fight? Will Nash fight? Who ****ing cares? We got him to score goals and win us games. He can't do that with his ass in the penalty box and his head bashed in. He's got eight career fights going back to juniors. I've got news for you. He's not going to be dropping the gloves much. We didn't give up four big assets and commit $7.8 million in cap space over the next six years for him to be Mike Rupp.

i want players that are leaders that bring emotion to the team like sticking up for teammates like when Shanny was a Ranger, not being a goon like Brashear Rupp Asham etc....did any of you guys say this when Messier and Graves was fighting back in the 90s?? they were great players that fought when they had too...i bet no one complained then...

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09-05-2012, 12:06 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i want players that are leaders that bring emotion to the team like sticking up for teammates like when Shanny was a Ranger, not being a goon like Brashear Rupp Asham etc....did any of you guys say this when Messier and Graves was fighting back in the 90s?? they were great players that fought when they had too...i bet no one complained then...
Not every star player has to be a power forward with a solid right hook. I'd rather they work on their wrister.

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09-05-2012, 12:18 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i want players that are leaders that bring emotion to the team like sticking up for teammates like when Shanny was a Ranger, not being a goon like Brashear Rupp Asham etc....did any of you guys say this when Messier and Graves was fighting back in the 90s?? they were great players that fought when they had too...i bet no one complained then...
Geez How many times did Shanny even fight? And how many times did he even remotely come close to winning a fight? We signed him to score goals. Yeah it was great that he fought Brashear, but it wasn't like I would've deemed him a terrible leader had he not fought him. You just sound ridiculous right now. Was Leetch a bad leader because he didn't fight? Are Stamkos, St.Louis, Richards, Alfredsson, Bergeron, Plekanec, the Sedin's, etc., bad leaders because they don't fight. Just stop with this ********. Not every star player has to drop the gloves to lead his team. It's an asinine argument. Your picking at straws here.

Are glaring problem was and has been goal scoring, especially on the power play. I don't need Nash sitting in the box for 5 minutes at any time during the season just to prove to someone like you he plays with emotion and leads his team by dropping the gloves.

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09-05-2012, 05:52 AM
  #471
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how will Nash be used on the powerplay???

Nash would be a good player to have to screen the goalie. he does have the size, strength and grit to do so...




does any one think Torts will put him on the point on the powerplay. im scared that he might...i hate when a forward is used on the point on the powerplay...

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09-05-2012, 06:14 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
how will Nash be used on the powerplay???

Nash would be a good player to have to screen the goalie. he does have the size, strength and grit to do so...



does any one think Torts will put him on the point on the powerplay. im scared that he might...i hate when a forward is used on the point on the powerplay...
i'd be shocked if he wasn't moved all over the place during the course of the season. front of the net, point, etc. we're coming from a PP that was struggling all season (albeit in the playoffs it was down right deadly). i'm sure they will test what he can do. the point may not be so bad for him. he wouldn't be afraid to skate the puck in. our second unit also looks much better this upcoming year with the addition of nash and kreider.

figure it could be nash/gaborik/richards on the 1st unit and kreider/stepan/callahan on the 2nd unit assuming they don't put nash on the point. if that's the case though i'm sure it'll just be hagelin (or a rookie) on the 2nd unit.

if nash is on the PP as a forward odds are he'd spend a lot of time in the dirty area since nobody else fits nearly as well. if he's on the point, kreider or cally may see some time with the first unit in front of the net.

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09-05-2012, 06:57 AM
  #473
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i'd be shocked if he wasn't moved all over the place during the course of the season. front of the net, point, etc. we're coming from a PP that was struggling all season (albeit in the playoffs it was down right deadly). i'm sure they will test what he can do. the point may not be so bad for him. he wouldn't be afraid to skate the puck in. our second unit also looks much better this upcoming year with the addition of nash and kreider.

figure it could be nash/gaborik/richards on the 1st unit and kreider/stepan/callahan on the 2nd unit assuming they don't put nash on the point. if that's the case though i'm sure it'll just be hagelin (or a rookie) on the 2nd unit.

if nash is on the PP as a forward odds are he'd spend a lot of time in the dirty area since nobody else fits nearly as well. if he's on the point, kreider or cally may see some time with the first unit in front of the net.
Dubinsky Callahan Kreider all played in front last year at times on the PP......Hagelin has quick hands so itt wont shock me to see him in front on the PP..another player i can see on the PP in front of the net is Pyatt..

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09-05-2012, 05:29 PM
  #474
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Geez How many times did Shanny even fight? And how many times did he even remotely come close to winning a fight? We signed him to score goals. Yeah it was great that he fought Brashear, but it wasn't like I would've deemed him a terrible leader had he not fought him. You just sound ridiculous right now. Was Leetch a bad leader because he didn't fight? Are Stamkos, St.Louis, Richards, Alfredsson, Bergeron, Plekanec, the Sedin's, etc., bad leaders because they don't fight. Just stop with this ********. Not every star player has to drop the gloves to lead his team. It's an asinine argument. Your picking at straws here.

Are glaring problem was and has been goal scoring, especially on the power play. I don't need Nash sitting in the box for 5 minutes at any time during the season just to prove to someone like you he plays with emotion and leads his team by dropping the gloves.
I couldn't agree more with this.

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09-05-2012, 06:49 PM
  #475
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Are people really arguing that Nash is a terrible leader cause he doesn't fight? Jesus Christ.

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