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New CBA? Are Panthers Well Positioned? (ALL CBA TALK HERE)

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Old
09-03-2012, 11:25 AM
  #26
billysbreakdown
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What's the latest on the case? I must've missed something. Seems like the majority is confident there will be a lockout.

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09-03-2012, 01:36 PM
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Every time you think that they are making progress, news comes out that destroys any bit of hope you had garnered up. It's really frustrating. I think there is no doubt at this point that the season will be delayed, it's just a matter of how long or if we will even have a season if it's real bad. I hate this.

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09-15-2012, 11:16 PM
  #28
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And thus the lockout begins...here's to hoping they can get a fire lit under their butts and get something accomplished before we have another '04-'05 season or lack there of.

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09-16-2012, 02:53 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
Every time you think that they are making progress, news comes out that destroys any bit of hope you had garnered up. It's really frustrating. I think there is no doubt at this point that the season will be delayed, it's just a matter of how long or if we will even have a season if it's real bad. I hate this.
Big thanks to Bettman for this ********! NHLPA wants to meet but Bettman doesnt. It is clear that Players want to play while a CBA is being worked out but Bettman is being a ******** as usual..He will lock them out.

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09-16-2012, 03:04 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Boothinator View Post
Big thanks to Bettman for this ********! NHLPA wants to meet but Bettman doesnt. It is clear that Players want to play while a CBA is being worked out but Bettman is being a ******** as usual..He will lock them out.
bettman isn't an idiot. of course the NHLPA wants to play while the CBA is being worked out. donald fehr used that exact scenario as a negotiating ploy as the head of the MLBPA in 1994. when the playoffs roled around, the players decided to strike and had the league by the throat. the world series was cancelled and it absolutely crippled MLB for YEARS.

only an idiot would allow games to go on without a CBA after witnessing that. Fehr and the NHLPA are just using that whole stance to try and help their PR by fooling ignorant people that don't know the history of CBA negotiations in sports.

the truth of the matter is both are equally as guilty. the players are getting 57% of revenues right now which is obviously, too much. a 50-50 split is eventually what they will settle on, just like the NBA did and the NFL did (53-47, actually, in favor of the OWNERS). and greedy owners refusing to budge on revenue sharing that the players want to instill ( big market teams basically, like TOR, MTL BOS, NYR, ETC). they'll likely meet in the middle there, too.it's just a shame it takes cancelling games to get it done. but thats the nature of the beast when it comes to negotiations, only pressure/deadlines get anything done.

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09-16-2012, 03:04 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boothinator View Post
Big thanks to Bettman for this ********! NHLPA wants to meet but Bettman doesnt. It is clear that Players want to play while a CBA is being worked out but Bettman is being a ******** as usual..He will lock them out.
Bettman works for the owners, so you should be *****ing at the owners more, not Bettman. Of course he plays a big role in this thing, but he isnt the only one to blame. I do think its time that a NHL guy become the leagues next commish, not another branch from the Stern tree.

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09-16-2012, 04:26 AM
  #32
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All day they handed out big, lengthy contracts like they did all summer. Then they ask for it back. Ridiculous.

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09-16-2012, 10:54 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
bettman isn't an idiot. of course the NHLPA wants to play while the CBA is being worked out. donald fehr used that exact scenario as a negotiating ploy as the head of the MLBPA in 1994. when the playoffs roled around, the players decided to strike and had the league by the throat. the world series was cancelled and it absolutely crippled MLB for YEARS.

only an idiot would allow games to go on without a CBA after witnessing that. Fehr and the NHLPA are just using that whole stance to try and help their PR by fooling ignorant people that don't know the history of CBA negotiations in sports.

the truth of the matter is both are equally as guilty. the players are getting 57% of revenues right now which is obviously, too much. a 50-50 split is eventually what they will settle on, just like the NBA did and the NFL did (53-47, actually, in favor of the OWNERS). and greedy owners refusing to budge on revenue sharing that the players want to instill ( big market teams basically, like TOR, MTL BOS, NYR, ETC). they'll likely meet in the middle there, too.it's just a shame it takes cancelling games to get it done. but thats the nature of the beast when it comes to negotiations, only pressure/deadlines get anything done.
This. Both sides have been gathering their own bargaining chips throughout these negotiations. With the NHL it's the lockout, with the NHLPA it's labor issue laws in Canada (though I think the first attempt failed but it's going to be reconsidered) and both sides are implementing the media and turning this into a whole he says, she says ordeal. The things that kind of irks me about the whole thing is the hypocrisy behind the NHL saying they're paying too much money to players and then the owners turning around and giving out these hefty contracts (certainly glad the Panthers haven't done this). Also if this whole thing is just about revenue sharing then they have to realize that not only will they lose money/revenue for this season but the revenue will most likely not be increasing in the foreseeable future. So it's really baffling how they can act like hungry wolves on a leftover chicken bone when if they ACTUALLY work together they could go after the cash cow that would likely result from the new deal.

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09-16-2012, 11:08 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
bettman isn't an idiot. of course the NHLPA wants to play while the CBA is being worked out. donald fehr used that exact scenario as a negotiating ploy as the head of the MLBPA in 1994. when the playoffs roled around, the players decided to strike and had the league by the throat. the world series was cancelled and it absolutely crippled MLB for YEARS.

only an idiot would allow games to go on without a CBA after witnessing that. Fehr and the NHLPA are just using that whole stance to try and help their PR by fooling ignorant people that don't know the history of CBA negotiations in sports.
And that killed the Expos, I ****ing hate Fehr, I hate him with the force of a 1000 suns.

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09-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #35
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Sorry but the players seem to me like a bunch of divas....I wished a million times I had the talent to play a sport that I loved even earning 100k a year I would volunteer to clean the locker rooms each night, and these guys are complaining about having to ride in economy in planes and stuff...pathetic

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09-16-2012, 12:23 PM
  #36
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That 'committed to work around the clock' line in the Message from the NHL is a nice slap in the face. Lol

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09-16-2012, 01:14 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boothinator View Post
Big thanks to Bettman for this ********! NHLPA wants to meet but Bettman doesnt. It is clear that Players want to play while a CBA is being worked out but Bettman is being a ******** as usual..He will lock them out.
No, the NHLPA doesn't want to meet. They actually didn't even give any response whatsoever to the NHL's last two proposals. They are perfectly content with waiting for a long time to get what they want. The NHL has been inviting the NHLPA to talk for over a year. The NHLPA finally agreed to meet for talks for the first time only 3 months ago. Fehr knows exactly what he's doing. I saw this coming a mile away. He delayed and delayed in order to trick some people into thinking this was the NHL's fault for locking out the players come Sept. 15. The NHL also deserves a lot of blame, their initial proposal was ridiculous.

The NHLPA doesn't want to meet. They just want to continue playing under the old CBA. Which the NHL simply can't do. You can't play without a CBA. We saw what happened the last time a league did that with the word of the union that said they would act in good faith - oh, what do you know. Fehr was in charge of that union. All fans of small market teams should not be as angry at Bettman as they are. He's trying to make the long term viability of small market teams stronger. The players cannot continue getting 57% of HRR. It's simply impossible to go on with that structure.

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09-16-2012, 06:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
No, the NHLPA doesn't want to meet. They actually didn't even give any response whatsoever to the NHL's last two proposals. They are perfectly content with waiting for a long time to get what they want. The NHL has been inviting the NHLPA to talk for over a year. The NHLPA finally agreed to meet for talks for the first time only 3 months ago. Fehr knows exactly what he's doing. I saw this coming a mile away. He delayed and delayed in order to trick some people into thinking this was the NHL's fault for locking out the players come Sept. 15. The NHL also deserves a lot of blame, their initial proposal was ridiculous.

The NHLPA doesn't want to meet. They just want to continue playing under the old CBA. Which the NHL simply can't do. You can't play without a CBA. We saw what happened the last time a league did that with the word of the union that said they would act in good faith - oh, what do you know. Fehr was in charge of that union. All fans of small market teams should not be as angry at Bettman as they are. He's trying to make the long term viability of small market teams stronger. The players cannot continue getting 57% of HRR. It's simply impossible to go on with that structure.
NHLPA and players have stronger position this time than last time, next month they are going to get their escrow money, 8 % of their last season's salary.
What are other expenses teams are paying (43% portion of HRR)? They have hundreds of other employees or are they employed by SSE (in Panthers case), they pay travel, equipment etc.

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09-16-2012, 07:01 PM
  #39
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so how long will this take? Any decent guesses?

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09-17-2012, 02:20 AM
  #40
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so how long will this take? Any decent guesses?
Some TSN guy said around mid December. Anyone know when the next meeting is?

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09-17-2012, 07:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
so how long will this take? Any decent guesses?
No, it could be from very short (1-2 months) to very long (1-2 seasons.
If lockout is short, let's say 1 month, Panthers would benefit (at least short term), they have only three home games:

"If the lockout wiped out the opening month, the Panthers would lose just three home games and would save big bucks by not paying salary nor paying for a long scheduled road trip Long Island, Winnipeg and Minnesota.

October is traditionally a tough sell for NHL teams around the league -- and especially in Florida."

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...#storylink=cpy

But somehow I would be very sure, that even losing one month, NHL would do some rescheduling (uneven number games, home games etc).

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09-17-2012, 07:09 AM
  #42
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January 24th will be the first home game of the season for the Panthers, at the new:


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09-17-2012, 11:08 AM
  #43
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love the new name!

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09-17-2012, 02:16 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
so how long will this take? Any decent guesses?
I think it really will depend on who blinks first TBH. And if you guys were worried before, it could actually be worse if one of the Panthers owners is correct:
Quote:
Stu Siegel ‏@StuSiegel
My prediction: the NHL owners are going to regret the lockout when Fehr pulls the salary cap off the table.

https://twitter.com/StuSiegel/status/247693176670928896
Its supposedly not considered an option right now but its like the "Nuke" option where it could be used as a last resort. So we could be in for a long one if they even have thought about that as an option.

Source: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1261115

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09-17-2012, 02:33 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
All day they handed out big, lengthy contracts like they did all summer. Then they ask for it back. Ridiculous.
Actually I believe this assumption is false, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I understand, regardless of how big or small the contracts being handed out, players will receive 57% of revenue. This is facilitated through the escrow system and in several past years, players have received a paycut because of the escrow (though not for the last year).

The owners could hand out $100 million contracts all day to all players, but at the end of the day, the players will still receive 57% of revenue. Or if owners were being conservative and handed out small contracts, the players would receive payments to top up to 57%.

So I think it's a bit disingenius to paint the owners as these drunken businessmen giving out millions of dollars while crying poor because at the end of the day, the 57% number is the one to focus on.

Also, I'm not sure how bonuses are accounted for in the escrow system since I think they are paid out near the beginning. I'm also not sure how it takes into account the varying contract amounts year-to-year. If anyone can enlighten me that would be appreciated.

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09-17-2012, 06:54 PM
  #46
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As a STHer, I fully expect that the Panthers will refund me the money I paid for the games that they cancel the moment they are cancelled.

I am not a bank. If they want to have a labor fight, they can do so without my money to finance it.

Of course, I am not holding my breath. I am looking forward to the bizarre correspondence I will be receiving from Yorkman that explains why they WON'T be refunding my money and how this is a wonderful benefit to me.

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09-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
Actually I believe this assumption is false, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

From what I understand, regardless of how big or small the contracts being handed out, players will receive 57% of revenue. This is facilitated through the escrow system and in several past years, players have received a paycut because of the escrow (though not for the last year).

The owners could hand out $100 million contracts all day to all players, but at the end of the day, the players will still receive 57% of revenue. Or if owners were being conservative and handed out small contracts, the players would receive payments to top up to 57%.

So I think it's a bit disingenius to paint the owners as these drunken businessmen giving out millions of dollars while crying poor because at the end of the day, the 57% number is the one to focus on.

Also, I'm not sure how bonuses are accounted for in the escrow system since I think they are paid out near the beginning. I'm also not sure how it takes into account the varying contract amounts year-to-year. If anyone can enlighten me that would be appreciated.
That was from a former NHLer I know well enough, and how it's being looked at.

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09-18-2012, 08:52 AM
  #48
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That was from a former NHLer I know well enough, and how it's being looked at.
If that's how the players look at it then they are not being properly informed...

I really don't understand why people keep pounding the table on the $100 million contracts when in reality, it isn't $100 million because of the clawbacks. The contracts could have been for $1 billion/year, but the players would still not receive more than their share of the revenue.

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09-18-2012, 08:54 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
As a STHer, I fully expect that the Panthers will refund me the money I paid for the games that they cancel the moment they are cancelled.

I am not a bank. If they want to have a labor fight, they can do so without my money to finance it.

Of course, I am not holding my breath. I am looking forward to the bizarre correspondence I will be receiving from Yorkman that explains why they WON'T be refunding my money and how this is a wonderful benefit to me.
Yup I'm in the same boat...and I assume you're a full season owner too which means you and I paid for those preseason games that are about to be cancelled as well. I'm expecting to get my money back on those as well for sure (even if I may not have used those tickets completely).

Yeah I dont think they will have a leg to stand on this time around when people ask for their refunds since we saw what happened the last time there was a lockout. I'm pretty sure I have a new ticket rep this yr since mine got promoted to Marketing Coordinator of Club Red (btw, congrats to Zach aka a99tobe). Next week I'll have to find out what they plan to do and let everyone know if there hasnt been some communication before then.

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09-18-2012, 01:33 PM
  #50
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Panthers layoff employees

Starting to hit our team now. Feel sorry for those people, laid off at a time when the economy is just miserable.

Quote:
The Florida Panthers have announced layoffs of some staff members, saying the moves are "primarily" because of the NHL lockout.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405570

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