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Apparently Lidstrom was as good as Lemieux

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Old
09-02-2012, 04:52 PM
  #26
Ogrezilla
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Mario probably could have been the best forward ever if he was healthy. As things went though, Gretzky was the best forward ever.

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Old
09-02-2012, 05:04 PM
  #27
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Lidstrom isn't even top 3 in his position

1.Orr
2.Shore
3.Bourque
4.Lidstrom
IMO

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09-02-2012, 05:39 PM
  #28
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They shoulda just broke it down by letter and position. Woulda been neat to see some of the names for offense and defense.

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09-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #29
Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
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Bobby Orr is so far ahead of any other defenseman that it's ridiculous when any other defenseman is mentioned as being on his level. Im my mind Orr was the greatest player to ever play the game and he dominated the game from his position the way nobody else could before or after him. It's sad that injuries caused his career to be cut so short, otherwise we'd have been able to see Orr play against Gretzky, that would have been something.

Lidstrom was very good for a very long time but he was never the best player in the game, not even for a single season. Never. He's not even close to Lemieux's level, his peak just simply wasn't high enough.


Last edited by Don'tcry4mejanhrdina: 09-02-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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09-02-2012, 06:17 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don'tcry4mejanhrdina View Post
Bobby Orr is so far ahead of any other defenseman that it's ridiculous when any other defenseman is mentioned as being on his level. Im my mind Orr was the greatest player to ever play the game and he dominated the game from his position the way nobody else could before or after him. It's sad that injuries caused his career to be cut so short, otherwise we'd have been able to see Orr play against Gretzky, that would have been something.

Lidstrom was very good for a very long time but he was never the best player in the game, not even for a single season. Never. He's not even close to Lemieux's level, his peak just simply wasn't highy enough.
Bingo.

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Old
09-02-2012, 06:20 PM
  #31
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This made me ****ing sick to my stomach . This is no proper way to write an article. The author of this article should be held responsible.Garbage. Nick didnt even deserve his last Norris imo.

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09-02-2012, 08:33 PM
  #32
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And my hate for Lidstrom is close to approaching Saku11's irrational hate for Datsyuk. First he was "the perfect human" and now he's tied with Lemieux? The ass kissing of this man needs to end.

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Old
09-02-2012, 09:06 PM
  #33
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Lidstrom was consistently one of the top defenseman in the league for the last 15 years of his career, but he was never enough of a game-changing player to be compared to Lemieux.

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09-02-2012, 09:12 PM
  #34
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The only defenseman comparable to lemieux are Orr and maybe MAYBE make an argument for bourque. Which shows just how amazing lemieux was.

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09-02-2012, 10:53 PM
  #35
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You can argue Orr for sure (that's the traditional pick... note I said you can argue Lidstrom as the greatest overall D, not that it's right). Guys, Lidstrom was an exceptional D for two decades and during his prime no one was consistently as good he was in all phases. Borque and Shore were great but not better than Lidstrom overall IMO. Orr is the "Michael Jordan pick" but Lidstrom was outstanding in all facets of the game and he was extremely consistent at the highest level.

There might've been guys with bigger slapshots on the PP, guys who dished out more punishment, guys who skated faster but no guys who had the total package the way he did and who brought it every single night.

Again, NOT arguing he's "better than Lemieux". As I said it's a stupid comparison (there's only one or two people to compare to Lemieux and their names rhyme with Shane Schmetzky and Rordie Row, as far as being "the best ever / most dominant ever during their primes" type argument).

However if Lidstrom had been a Penguin I wager attitudes in this thread would be a lot different at least as far as tolerating people talking about both of them as being among the greatest players ever.

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09-02-2012, 10:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
And my hate for Lidstrom is close to approaching Saku11's irrational hate for Datsyuk. First he was "the perfect human" and now he's tied with Lemieux? The ass kissing of this man needs to end.
Yeah I hate that crap too. People forget how he was talking about going back to SWE until the Wings gave him his boatload of money.

To be honest I'm not even sure if Lidstrom is in my top 5 defenseman.

Orr
Shore
Potvin
Bourque
Harvey or Lidstrom... its a toss up for me but I do rank those other 4 above him.

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09-02-2012, 11:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
You can argue Orr for sure (that's the traditional pick... note I said you can argue Lidstrom as the greatest overall D, not that it's right). Guys, Lidstrom was an exceptional D for two decades and during his prime no one was consistently as good he was in all phases. Borque and Shore were great but not better than Lidstrom overall IMO. Orr is the "Michael Jordan pick" but Lidstrom was outstanding in all facets of the game and he was extremely consistent at the highest level.

There might've been guys with bigger slapshots on the PP, guys who dished out more punishment, guys who skated faster but no guys who had the total package the way he did and who brought it every single night.

Again, NOT arguing he's "better than Lemieux". As I said it's a stupid comparison (there's only one or two people to compare to Lemieux and their names rhyme with Shane Schmetzky and Rordie Row, as far as being "the best ever / most dominant ever during their primes" type argument).

However if Lidstrom had been a Penguin I wager attitudes in this thread would be a lot different at least as far as tolerating people talking about both of them as being among the greatest players ever.
CV, there's literally no argument for Lidstrom (or any defenseman) over Orr. Orr was not only great in all aspects of the game, he was transcendent.

There's a reason why there's "The Big Four" when it comes to discussion of the greatest ever, and then there's everybody else. That's no disrespect to Lidstrom, because anyone outside of those four who's ever played the game is in the same boat.

People who call Lidstrom even with Lemieux in terms of greatness really doesn't have the experience to talk about the subject knowledgeably, and ought to spend some time on the HoH board. And this doesn't have anything to do with the Wings either, because the same argument would apply if somebody wanted to compare Lidstrom to Howe.

They're on different tiers.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 09-02-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old
09-03-2012, 08:11 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
This made me ****ing sick to my stomach . This is no proper way to write an article. The author of this article should be held responsible.Garbage. Nick didnt even deserve his last Norris imo.
He was a -2 during the last season he won the Norris. I know it's customary to say +/- doesn't matter, but come on, he was the only starting d-man on the team that season to be a minus player.

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Old
09-03-2012, 08:52 AM
  #39
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Lemieux was the greatest player ever and I wouldnt even put lidstrom in the top 5 so thats how silly I find that rating to be. I just found Lidstrom to be just so incredibly overrated especially with a trophy system that often rewarded most points to someone who was supposedly best at their defensive orientated position. Lemieux when he played and especially during his prime was bar none the best player in the NHL. Gretzky's dominance happened moreso before Lemieux. Lidstrom until maybe recent years wasnt even considered the best at his position during those time frames. You had Ray Bourque and Chris Pronger occupying that.

When I watched Lemieux play, my jaw would at times drop as he would do things that made professionals look like amateurs...even the great Ray Bourque. Lidstrom never left me with any wow factor.

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Old
09-03-2012, 08:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
He was a -2 during the last season he won the Norris. I know it's customary to say +/- doesn't matter, but come on, he was the only starting d-man on the team that season to be a minus player.
Much like the Selke trophy, it was largely awarded based on reputation and not reality.

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Old
09-03-2012, 09:22 AM
  #41
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I definitely think the last 1 or 2 Norris' for Lidstrom, reputation had a ton to do with them.

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09-03-2012, 09:39 AM
  #42
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There's one person who regularly argues for Lidstrom on the HoH board, but even he didn't vote him first in the Top 60 Defenseman Project. Orr got 17/17 1st place votes.

Doug Harvey is better than Lidstrom and most everyone has him #2 overall. Shore gets **** on because people think he was a cartoon running around taking penalties every shift for some reason, but the dude was the best defensemen of all time until the 50s and the best player in the league at his peak. That said, I think you have to give Lidstrom credit for passing Potvin by now. My top 5 mirrors what the HoH panel came up with:

1. Orr
2. Harvey
3. Bourque
4. Shore
5. Lidstrom

Also since this is being discussed

1. Orr
2. Gretzky
3. Howe
4. Lemieux

I'll keep my head down, but Lidstrom isn't remotely close to the big four imo.


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 09-03-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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09-03-2012, 11:34 AM
  #43
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Sundin deserves a bit of love.

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09-03-2012, 12:01 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
Sundin deserves a bit of love.
If there's one place Sundin deserves some love, it's a thread discussing Lidstrom vs. Lemieux.

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09-03-2012, 12:12 PM
  #45
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Bingo.
I'll 2nd that bingo.

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Old
09-03-2012, 12:20 PM
  #46
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Does this even matter?

This is about best captains anyway, not best players. Bill Russell is probably considered a better leader han Wilt Chamberlain (even though Wilt was on another level in talent) because he won 11 titles in 13 seasons. Not to mention that Lidstrom played his entire career in one city (of course Mario did too, but this adds to Lidstrom's case).


Last edited by Pengo: 09-03-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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09-03-2012, 12:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Pengo View Post
Does this even matter?

This is about best captains anyway, not best players. Bill Russell is probably considered a better leader han Wilt Chamberlain (even though Wilt was on another level in talent) because he won 11 titles in 13 seasons. Not to mention that Lidstrom played his entire career in one city (of course Mario did too, but this adds to Lidstrom's case).
Huh? This is about best players not best captains. I think you read the wrong article.

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09-03-2012, 12:36 PM
  #48
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Huh? This is about best players not best captains. I think you read the wrong article.
Ohh.... that's what I read when I saw this article yesterday.

Yeah, I guess that changes my thoughts on this. Mario and Lidstrom really aren't on the same level talent-wise.

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09-03-2012, 01:12 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Pengo View Post
Does this even matter?
Not even a little. I'm going to extract myself from the conversation now but if you guys want to keep chest-thumping about this stuff keep it on topic. No crap about Red Wings sour grapes in 09, etc.

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Old
09-03-2012, 01:46 PM
  #50
Saku11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengo View Post
Does this even matter?

This is about best captains anyway, not best players.
Well, Mario was the better captain too. Im not saying Lidstrom is a bad captain, but he had the charisma equal to block of wood

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