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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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Old
09-02-2012, 08:39 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by magix View Post
He has more tools to work with than any other forward prospect in the system and yes thats including the next "alfie". He is still the best prospect the sens have.
I still think Lehner, Stone and Silf are better prospects and will be better NHL'ers

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09-02-2012, 08:49 PM
  #352
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I agree with what others have said, this guy's going to be a huge star for this team for the next 10-15 years.

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09-02-2012, 09:20 PM
  #353
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What's intriguing is that we could see Zibanejad centering Silfverberg and Stone in Bingo, although i think they'll mostly try him on the wing.

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09-02-2012, 09:24 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
What's intriguing is that we could see Zibanejad centering Silfverberg and Stone in Bingo, although i think they'll mostly try him on the wing.
I wanna see Prince Zibby Petersson line from the rookie tourny.

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09-02-2012, 09:35 PM
  #355
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Or since Hossa at least. We do have a gem, and his attitude fits his skills sets.
Yaup, hossa is probably the best "everything you want in a hockey" type of player the sens had.

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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Just keep in mind the games most valuable players are ones that can hold onto the puck as they please...it's hard to believe this will ever be Mika's forte. I'm not even taking guesses as far as these 3 players paths go...people are down on Zibanejad for all the wrong reasons. Some don't get the moon from him so he's ****, or some just like to be pessimistic to disguise themselves as impartial and sophisticated.
He has the tools to dominate the puck which is why the kid has star potential.

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I still think Lehner, Stone and Silf are better prospects and will be better NHL'ers
Thats your opinion, but I respectfully disagree for the reasons I listed a couple of posts back.

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09-03-2012, 07:53 AM
  #356
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He has the tools to dominate the puck which is why the kid has star potential.



.
But that's none of the reason he has star potential. Players that dominate the puck generally display superior hockey sense (Crosby, Datsyuk, or an Alfredsson), and although I think people go way too far knocking the kids on ice smarts...it isn't one of his defining qualities. I'd compare his skill set and style of play to Ovechkin, a lesser version but he still approaches shifts similarly. Ovechkin doesn't dominate the puck....he grabs it and whistles it on net at any chance he gets, and if he sees someone guarding the shot he makes a one on one play. His game isn't complicated at all.

The best I've ever seen from Zibanejad is he's getting pucks on net as often as he can...and he's got the ability to do this. Not that he doesn't have the skating to beat a guy or have the size to run over a guy down low or what have you....but his puck possession qualities aren't likely to define him whatsoever.

Takes a lot more than physical talents to dominate the puck and high levels of hockey sense can't be expected just to appear out of thin air. Malkin can do it, not because of his physical tools but because he's got those tools and a very high level of hockey sense.

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09-03-2012, 08:03 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
What's intriguing is that we could see Zibanejad centering Silfverberg and Stone in Bingo, although i think they'll mostly try him on the wing.
If he's in Bingo I wouldn't be surprised if they have him playing center. It's not like wing is a massive adjustment at the next level and Bingo will probably need a top 6 center.

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09-03-2012, 09:13 AM
  #358
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Mika had 36 shots in 6 games during the WJC. 6 shots on goal per game. Obviously it will be much different (less) at the NHL level, but prorate that over 82 games an you have yourself nearly 500 shots on goal.

and this was on small ice, so he's likely to play the same way. Harder to get so may shots with big ice. His style is way better for North America and he should never have been returned to Drjugarden for that reason.

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09-03-2012, 11:34 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
But that's none of the reason he has star potential. Players that dominate the puck generally display superior hockey sense (Crosby, Datsyuk, or an Alfredsson), and although I think people go way too far knocking the kids on ice smarts...it isn't one of his defining qualities. I'd compare his skill set and style of play to Ovechkin, a lesser version but he still approaches shifts similarly. Ovechkin doesn't dominate the puck....he grabs it and whistles it on net at any chance he gets, and if he sees someone guarding the shot he makes a one on one play. His game isn't complicated at all.

The best I've ever seen from Zibanejad is he's getting pucks on net as often as he can...and he's got the ability to do this. Not that he doesn't have the skating to beat a guy or have the size to run over a guy down low or what have you....but his puck possession qualities aren't likely to define him whatsoever.

Takes a lot more than physical talents to dominate the puck and high levels of hockey sense can't be expected just to appear out of thin air. Malkin can do it, not because of his physical tools but because he's got those tools and a very high level of hockey sense.
You can be puck dominant in different ways. Prime Ovchekin was puck dominant not in the sense that he would hold onto it forever with dekes/dangles/smarts and what not but because no one in the league could separate him from the puck when he was charging down the wing. So unless he made a mistake or got off a shot it was near impossible to stop him from getting to where he wanted to go which was always the slot or going hard to the net whether it was via power or deke.

And even though he did not hold onto it as long as the others you listed, he had these bursts 6-7 times a game throughout the season which adds up. So in a non traditional sense you can say he was dominant with the puck whenever he got it. And I think zibanejad will be similar to this (definently not to the extent OV was).

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09-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
But that's none of the reason he has star potential. Players that dominate the puck generally display superior hockey sense (Crosby, Datsyuk, or an Alfredsson), and although I think people go way too far knocking the kids on ice smarts...it isn't one of his defining qualities. I'd compare his skill set and style of play to Ovechkin, a lesser version but he still approaches shifts similarly. Ovechkin doesn't dominate the puck....he grabs it and whistles it on net at any chance he gets, and if he sees someone guarding the shot he makes a one on one play. His game isn't complicated at all.

The best I've ever seen from Zibanejad is he's getting pucks on net as often as he can...and he's got the ability to do this. Not that he doesn't have the skating to beat a guy or have the size to run over a guy down low or what have you....but his puck possession qualities aren't likely to define him whatsoever.

Takes a lot more than physical talents to dominate the puck and high levels of hockey sense can't be expected just to appear out of thin air. Malkin can do it, not because of his physical tools but because he's got those tools and a very high level of hockey sense.
While I agree with you that in gerneral, the players that are able hold onto the puck are the more valuable/bigger impact guys, and that Zibby isnt neccesarily one of those guys. But on the other hand if said player has all of the best physical tools to work with, like Zibby does, then it makes up the difference in playing style between a playmaking/quaterback type player and powerful skating sniper/powerforward.

We already have some great playmakers and potential ones in our ranks, what we dont have is a Zibby, unless you count Michalek I guess. But I still think that its Zibby's one timer that will do big things for him in this league. We have two players players in Karlsson and Spezza (three if you count Alfie of course by this might not all happen next year) who are able to thread some incredible passes, and can place the puck on the tape of the stick of who they sent it to. I have no doubt they will figure out a way to incorporate that new weapon into our arsenal.

And I think the move to wing should stop anyones concern about his hockey sense because its really not bad to begin with, and he simply wont be carrying the puck nearly as much as a center would. When he does carry the puck he'll be forced to rely more on his physical tools and beat guys with strength and speed.

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09-03-2012, 12:23 PM
  #361
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While I agree with you that in gerneral, the players that are able hold onto the puck are the more valuable/bigger impact guys, and that Zibby isnt neccesarily one of those guys. But on the other hand if said player has all of the best physical tools to work with, like Zibby does, then it makes up the difference in playing style between a playmaking/quaterback type player and powerful skating sniper/powerforward.

We already have some great playmakers and potential ones in our ranks, what we dont have is a Zibby, unless you count Michalek I guess. But I still think that its Zibby's one timer that will do big things for him in this league. We have two players players in Karlsson and Spezza (three if you count Alfie of course by this might not all happen next year) who are able to thread some incredible passes, and can place the puck on the tape of the stick of who they sent it to. I have no doubt they will figure out a way to incorporate that new weapon into our arsenal.

And I think the move to wing should stop anyones concern about his hockey sense because its really not bad to begin with, and he simply wont be carrying the puck nearly as much as a center would. When he does carry the puck he'll be forced to rely more on his physical tools and beat guys with strength and speed.
Mark Stone's playmaking ability and his passing are awesome too, maybe not on par with Spezza but it's something to get excited about.

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09-03-2012, 12:25 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by magix View Post
You can be puck dominant in different ways. Prime Ovchekin was puck dominant not in the sense that he would hold onto it forever with dekes/dangles/smarts and what not but because no one in the league could separate him from the puck when he was charging down the wing. So unless he made a mistake or got off a shot it was near impossible to stop him from getting to where he wanted to go which was always the slot or going hard to the net whether it was via power or deke.

And even though he did not hold onto it as long as the others you listed, he had these bursts 6-7 times a game throughout the season which adds up. So in a non traditional sense you can say he was dominant with the puck whenever he got it. And I think zibanejad will be similar to this (definently not to the extent OV was).
Not really, it's either you can buy time with the puck and have you're way with it....or you're something else. Having 6 to 7 bursts a game with the puck and scoring twice is not dominating the puck, it's dominating the game in those short busts you keep the puck for because you have better physical tools and can score from anywhere.

All I'm saying is you're stick on Zibanejad being the best of the bunch because he has obvious physical tools and will have the ability to score from range and out of nowhere at times is pretty simplistic. At the end of the day most of the top players in the game are that way because of their smarts. You let Stone's 6'3 frame fill out with that hockey sense, hands, vision and release...all of a sudden you've got a contest. He's never gonna be the same long range shooting and skating threat....but any player that can buy time with the puck downlow and find tape like Stone can could be expected to put up a fight.

Scouts drool over hockey sense more than anything else... so I wouldn't discount a couple prospects with boatloads of it along with very strong talent vs one with less of it, as far as we've seen, that has better physical talents.

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09-03-2012, 12:31 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
While I agree with you that in gerneral, the players that are able hold onto the puck are the more valuable/bigger impact guys, and that Zibby isnt neccesarily one of those guys. But on the other hand if said player has all of the best physical tools to work with, like Zibby does, then it makes up the difference in playing style between a playmaking/quaterback type player and powerful skating sniper/powerforward.

We already have some great playmakers and potential ones in our ranks, what we dont have is a Zibby, unless you count Michalek I guess. But I still think that its Zibby's one timer that will do big things for him in this league. We have two players players in Karlsson and Spezza (three if you count Alfie of course by this might not all happen next year) who are able to thread some incredible passes, and can place the puck on the tape of the stick of who they sent it to. I have no doubt they will figure out a way to incorporate that new weapon into our arsenal.

And I think the move to wing should stop anyones concern about his hockey sense because its really not bad to begin with, and he simply wont be carrying the puck nearly as much as a center would. When he does carry the puck he'll be forced to rely more on his physical tools and beat guys with strength and speed.
Not knocking Zibanejad at all, but if you can find a guy with top 6 skills that can hold on to the puck almost as he pleases you've very likely got a more valuable player. My point is, telling people Zibanejad is gonna certainly be the best of the bunch is undermining the potentials of Stone and Silfverberg. I think anyone talking about any one of these guys in terms of one certainly becoming better than the other is wrongfully believing scouting is an exact science.

I think there's 3 guys that have the tools to be 1st liners and potentially even more than that.

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09-03-2012, 12:34 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Candyintherain View Post
Mark Stone's playmaking ability and his passing are awesome too, maybe not on par with Spezza but it's something to get excited about.
Mark Stone's got everything but skating.

This is where high end hockey sense makes up for holes in a skill set. Even in the NHL playoffs, despite looking sketchy, he was never behind the play. Who cares how fast you are when you know where to be faster than most other players...it can even out.

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09-03-2012, 12:43 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Candyintherain View Post
Mark Stone's playmaking ability and his passing are awesome too, maybe not on par with Spezza but it's something to get excited about.
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Not knocking Zibanejad at all, but if you can find a guy with top 6 skills that can hold on to the puck almost as he pleases you've very likely got a more valuable player. My point is, telling people Zibanejad is gonna certainly be the best of the bunch is undermining the potentials of Stone and Silfverberg. I think anyone talking about any one of these guys in terms of one certainly becoming better than the other is wrongfully believing scouting is an exact science.

I think there's 3 guys that have the tools to be 1st liners and potentially even more than that.
Absolutely agree about Stone and Silfverberg, both of them are gems. And I for sure didnt see what you were saying MoO as a knock against Zibby at all. I guess its just my opinion but I view Zibby as more a sure thing at this point. His hockey sense is less of a concern for me than Stone's skating and Silfverbergs ability to play an NHL style game.

Dont get me wrong, I still view the other two in the highest regard (Stone>Silfverberg imo). I just feel Zibby willl have the most success of the three, although Stone absolutely has a chance to surpass him, and Silfverberg quite possibly could as well. Heck even Noesen possibly could, although very unlikely imo.

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09-03-2012, 01:35 PM
  #366
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Yaup, hossa is probably the best "everything you want in a hockey" type of player the sens had.
Alfredsson.

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09-03-2012, 01:49 PM
  #367
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Am I the only one that doesn't think Stone will be a top line guy around here?

Don't get me wrong, he's an absolute steal at 7th round and I do think he will be an NHLer for sure. I just don't view him in the same light as some other prospects. I think he is a sure fire great 3rd liner, with potential for more, but not expecting it. That said, Stone still makes me excited and I think he will be an absolute great guy to have around

As for Zibanejad, I am also not convinced he will be an NHLer straight away. If he works hard and has great work ethic, he can be a great player, but I don't think top line potential will come for him without lots of hard work.

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09-03-2012, 02:36 PM
  #368
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I wanna see Prince Zibby Petersson line from the rookie tourny.
Very possible that we'll see that for sure. They seemed to really like Prince and Zibanejad together as a high energy forecheck with excellent skill - and Petersson adds a sniper's presence to keep opponents honest.

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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
If he's in Bingo I wouldn't be surprised if they have him playing center. It's not like wing is a massive adjustment at the next level and Bingo will probably need a top 6 center.
Perhaps. Hard to say right now with Bingo possibly getting an influx of players. In fact, things get very hard to figure out. The kind of thing that could keep Richardson awake at night trying to figure out. What is he going to do with Cannone and Hamilton? Are they the healthy scratches of the club, inserted in when there are injuries and call ups, or are they better suited in the lineup, or are they better suited in Elmira?

Cole Schneider is a really talented player who placed 20th in NCAA scoring last year, should he be on the 4th line? Is he built for a 4th line?

Jessiman is a joke of an NHL player, but at the AHL level, he can swat in a lot of goals from around the crease, does he play on the 4th line? If not, who moves up?

Then there's the whole issue of having nine AHL caliber D-men who need minutes. Great AHL D-men like Benoit, Eckford combined with rookies like Wideman and Blood combined with returnees like Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba etc.

Very hard, interesting decisions coming up - which is good I guess.

I think they'll do something like:

Silfverberg - Da Costa - Stone
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Petersson
Prince - Pageau - Grant
Schneider - Dziurynski - Jessiman
extras:
Hamilton, Cannone, Caporusso, Cowick

For D, I have no idea at all what they'll do.

Cowen - Wideman
Borowiecki - Gryba
Wiercioch - Eckford
Benoit - Blood
Claesson

Lehner
Lawson


Last edited by SpezDispenser: 09-03-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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09-03-2012, 02:43 PM
  #369
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Am I the only one that doesn't think Stone will be a top line guy around here?

Don't get me wrong, he's an absolute steal at 7th round and I do think he will be an NHLer for sure. I just don't view him in the same light as some other prospects. I think he is a sure fire great 3rd liner, with potential for more, but not expecting it. That said, Stone still makes me excited and I think he will be an absolute great guy to have around

As for Zibanejad, I am also not convinced he will be an NHLer straight away. If he works hard and has great work ethic, he can be a great player, but I don't think top line potential will come for him without lots of hard work.
Stone = Cheechoo-like "predatory" goal scorer. But with much better vision and much better puck possession skills.

If only the kid could skate worth a damn. He's made progress here and I'm crossing my fingers that the rest will eventually come. If Tavares can overcome bad skating, why not him?

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09-03-2012, 09:56 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Stone = Cheechoo-like "predatory" goal scorer. But with much better vision and much better puck possession skills.

If only the kid could skate worth a damn. He's made progress here and I'm crossing my fingers that the rest will eventually come. If Tavares can overcome bad skating, why not him?
Hes made great strides with his ugly skating and its only improving. Give him more conditioning and let him improve himself like Spezza once did. People forget his poorish skating when his first entered the league. Give it time, he'll be a solid NHLer, hes too smart on the ice.

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09-03-2012, 10:28 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Very possible that we'll see that for sure. They seemed to really like Prince and Zibanejad together as a high energy forecheck with excellent skill - and Petersson adds a sniper's presence to keep opponents honest.



Perhaps. Hard to say right now with Bingo possibly getting an influx of players. In fact, things get very hard to figure out. The kind of thing that could keep Richardson awake at night trying to figure out. What is he going to do with Cannone and Hamilton? Are they the healthy scratches of the club, inserted in when there are injuries and call ups, or are they better suited in the lineup, or are they better suited in Elmira?

Cole Schneider is a really talented player who placed 20th in NCAA scoring last year, should he be on the 4th line? Is he built for a 4th line?

Jessiman is a joke of an NHL player, but at the AHL level, he can swat in a lot of goals from around the crease, does he play on the 4th line? If not, who moves up?

Then there's the whole issue of having nine AHL caliber D-men who need minutes. Great AHL D-men like Benoit, Eckford combined with rookies like Wideman and Blood combined with returnees like Cowen, Wiercioch, Gryba etc.

Very hard, interesting decisions coming up - which is good I guess.

I think they'll do something like:

Silfverberg - Da Costa - Stone
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Petersson
Prince - Pageau - Grant
Schneider - Dziurynski - Jessiman
extras:
Hamilton, Cannone, Caporusso, Cowick

For D, I have no idea at all what they'll do.

Cowen - Wideman
Borowiecki - Gryba
Wiercioch - Eckford
Benoit - Blood
Claesson

Lehner
Lawson
Why is Cowen back in Bingo?

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09-03-2012, 10:38 PM
  #372
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Why is Cowen back in Bingo?
He's still on his ELC, I don't see why he wouldn't play there. Am I wrong?

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09-03-2012, 11:08 PM
  #373
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Why is Cowen back in Bingo?
I assume SD is basing this lineup on the NHL locking out it's players.

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09-04-2012, 08:38 AM
  #374
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I assume SD is basing this lineup on the NHL locking out it's players.
I see what he meant now. Yes, this is with a lockout.

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09-04-2012, 09:39 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Not really, it's either you can buy time with the puck and have you're way with it....or you're something else. Having 6 to 7 bursts a game with the puck and scoring twice is not dominating the puck, it's dominating the game in those short busts you keep the puck for because you have better physical tools and can score from anywhere.

All I'm saying is you're stick on Zibanejad being the best of the bunch because he has obvious physical tools and will have the ability to score from range and out of nowhere at times is pretty simplistic. At the end of the day most of the top players in the game are that way because of their smarts. You let Stone's 6'3 frame fill out with that hockey sense, hands, vision and release...all of a sudden you've got a contest. He's never gonna be the same long range shooting and skating threat....but any player that can buy time with the puck downlow and find tape like Stone can could be expected to put up a fight.

Scouts drool over hockey sense more than anything else... so I wouldn't discount a couple prospects with boatloads of it along with very strong talent vs one with less of it, as far as we've seen, that has better physical talents.
Well I guess thats just the difference between our opinions. You think stone's hockey sense could potentially make up the difference where I m not so keen as of yet. But if stone does pan out I definitely see him having a long career whereas zibanejad would have the better peak.

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