The RinkFor the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.
It is ridiculous, I agree. $250 for a composite stick made in china with a cost per unit that's probably 5% of that.
The prices are that high because people keep buying them. I see morning pickup guys that are novices and 50 lbs overweight with Easton RS sticks.
I set my personal limit at $100. I like the lighter weight and whippier response vs. a wood stick and they last me forever. I feel I'm getting value.
How many more goals would I score with an Easton RS vs. an S15? My guess is probably none.
The material cost might be 5%. You need to remember there's overhead, labour, management, depreciation on machinery, leases, design expense, etc.
It adds up.
Yeah, they still get a sizable profit, but please, if you're going to complain about margins go ***** about something like Hermes/LV bags. Stuff made out of leather costs $50,000+.
The material cost might be 5%. You need to remember there's overhead, labour, management, depreciation on machinery, leases, design expense, etc.
It adds up.
Yeah, they still get a sizable profit, but please, if you're going to complain about margins go ***** about something like Hermes/LV bags. Stuff made out of leather costs $50,000+.
I have a business degree. I'm well aware of the costs you mentioned. At $250 a stick the margins are ridiculous is my point. Those expenses were still there when sticks cost $20 and were likely higher since they were made in Canada and not China.
This is a hockey board and the topic is about sticks. Margins of other products have no place here.
I tend to buy very slightly used, high-end sticks. Haven't spent more than a $100 yet. Apparently I don't shoot hard enough because they seem to last forever.
Let's say a top end in the states is $250 while one in Canada is $300. 5% base cost price for the manufacturer would be $12.50 and $15.00 respectively.
One of, if not the largest Canadian sporting goods retailers has the retail cost price of top end sticks anywhere in the neighborhood between $170 - $190, most often around $180, which is 60% of regular retail price. Buying constantly and consistently in large quantities from manufacturers for locations coast-to-coast allows for such a price per unit. Don't think these major manufacturers would give 1100% markups to buyers. That's also considering the fact that the retailer buys in bulk, so the cost individually of each stick may be higher than that $180 range.
The cost of industrial carbon fibre is apparently about $10 / lb, roughly translating to about $4.50/kg. Assuming a top end SR stick is 400g (the APX and original U+ CL is about 415g non-grip with the smallest blade) and assuming around 350g of that stick is carbon fibre (I'm excluding any kevlar, resin, foam cores, paint or grip coatings), that material cost alone is still around $1.50, not discounting your argument entirely at the moment.
Now let's add all of the stuff in brackets, cost of labor (still there, even if it's overseas), rent and probably most of all, transport.
I'll be the first to admit that I have no data backing my argument except for the evidence above, but if you have such data to prove me wrong, it would be very welcome.
No data except word of mouth from various vendors. Most of the cost of the sticks goes towards R & D of the products and not the actual manufacturing of said product.
My guess is, if you look at the "clones" of top brand sticks, the cost of manufacturing and shipping them over here is probably around $50. That doesn't include R&D, manufacturer profit, marketing, warranties, and other costs. I would guess that bumps it up to at least $75-100 for a $200 stick.
The material itself might be $5-10 per stick, but that doesn't include the cost of setting up molds, the machines for production (including upkeep and wear&tear), labor, rent for the factory, packaging, and shipping them overseas.
My guess (completely uneducated) would be that store cost for a stick is around $100-125 for a $200 stick. It might be closer to $150+ for a $225+ stick. That does include all of the above costs including manufacturer's profit.
Retail stores making $50-75 for a top end stick would make sense, and then of course at the end of life they make no money as they blow them out, maybe lose a few bucks as they really need to clear out old stock (like the S17's and SE16's that are still in a few stores).
My guess is, if you look at the "clones" of top brand sticks, the cost of manufacturing and shipping them over here is probably around $50. That doesn't include R&D, manufacturer profit, marketing, warranties, and other costs. I would guess that bumps it up to at least $75-100 for a $200 stick.
The material itself might be $5-10 per stick, but that doesn't include the cost of setting up molds, the machines for production (including upkeep and wear&tear), labor, rent for the factory, packaging, and shipping them overseas.
My guess (completely uneducated) would be that store cost for a stick is around $100-125 for a $200 stick. It might be closer to $150+ for a $225+ stick. That does include all of the above costs including manufacturer's profit.
Retail stores making $50-75 for a top end stick would make sense, and then of course at the end of life they make no money as they blow them out, maybe lose a few bucks as they really need to clear out old stock (like the S17's and SE16's that are still in a few stores).
Your costs are actually low for the retail prices you quoted. Add about $20 or so dollars to those costs and you're now in the ballpark of actual costs.
Trust me, sticks and high end skates are the last things the shops are actually making money on.
I have a business degree. I'm well aware of the costs you mentioned. At $250 a stick the margins are ridiculous is my point. Those expenses were still there when sticks cost $20 and were likely higher since they were made in Canada and not China.
This is a hockey board and the topic is about sticks. Margins of other products have no place here.
Then you should be aware that $20-$30 a few decades ago is not the same as $20-$30 today. $1 back in the 80's is probably around $3 today.
You should also realize that labour was cheaper, the materials were different, and the machinery involved in production were much simpler (no composite weaving machine etc).
If you factor all of that in, yeah, there'd still be a noticeable increase in margin - but it makes sense because hockey's becoming a much more popular sport.
Then you should be aware that $20-$30 a few decades ago is not the same as $20-$30 today. $1 back in the 80's is probably around $3 today.
You should also realize that labour was cheaper, the materials were different, and the machinery involved in production were much simpler (no composite weaving machine etc).
If you factor all of that in, yeah, there'd still be a noticeable increase in margin - but it makes sense because hockey's becoming a much more popular sport.
Agreed. However I feel the whole margin argument is secondary.
Do $250 sticks make 99% of us better players or provide a good ROI in the points column? I would say probably not.
Buy a $70 or $100 stick and join a gym with the difference=better ROI.
That being said, people can do what they want with their money. If the 40 yr old beginner thats 50 lbs overweight thinks a $250 stick helps him in some way then psychologically I guess his purchase makes sense.
If there is one thing I've learned it's that despite their intelligence, human beings are the most irrational, emotionally driven animals on the planet. Cheese steak with extra cheese and a diet coke.
Do the production costs for a $250 stick really cost 2-3 times that of the production costs for a 100$ stick? That is EXTREMELY unlikely. They are probably using the exact same equipment to make them, just using a different composite mix to pour into the molds. Nothing more. I'd be willing to bet the profit on the high end sticks is ASTRONOMICAL. Especially compared to the $50-100 composites. It's all plastic, foam, and kevlar, when it comes down to it....
Do the production costs for a $250 stick really cost 2-3 times that of the production costs for a 100$ stick? That is EXTREMELY unlikely. They are probably using the exact same equipment to make them, just using a different composite mix to pour into the molds. Nothing more. I'd be willing to bet the profit on the high end sticks is ASTRONOMICAL. Especially compared to the $50-100 composites. It's all plastic, foam, and kevlar, when it comes down to it....
I was just thinking this actually... I remember the yellow synergy's that were the lightest sticks ever at the time being 300 bucks. Tbh you're getting a lot more bang for your buck now than you were before
Completely agree. The top end model of virtually every product line is "prestige" priced. You aren't getting tangible value there. The people that purchase those products pay more for the psychological "perceived" benefit. I call them suckers, but hey whatever makes them happy.
The value is typically at the mid price point. At the very most go one model down from the top.
it's amazing what marketing and pro seeding will do for sales of top end sticks to us normal people. not many guys i know get full benefit of playing with a bauer t1 nxg, etc. i wait until last years model goes on close out.
Easton seems to be starting a trend where they make three different sticks for the same.model. The mako came in three differ materials, all differ rpices. Starting w 75 then 110 and then 230. The durability and the weight were all quite similar. The 75 dollar one I bought and its been great. Its lasted me for about 3 months now and been playing regularly. I rather buy three of these...
Mlre companies should do this and they will prob make more money
Easton seems to be starting a trend where they make three different sticks for the same.model. The mako came in three differ materials, all differ rpices. Starting w 75 then 110 and then 230. The durability and the weight were all quite similar. The 75 dollar one I bought and its been great. Its lasted me for about 3 months now and been playing regularly. I rather buy three of these...
Mlre companies should do this and they will prob make more money
The weight of those sticks is definitely not similar... at my shop we sell the M2, M3, and the Mako top of the line one... there is a noticeable weight difference from the M3 to the Mako top of the line stick.
Here's the solution that works for my 13 year old son and me:
We found Bauer One80 wood/hybrid sticks on sale. They cost 130$ around here some years back. We get them for 19$ now. Bought 10 of them for each of us (102 flex for me, 67 for him). Great value, maybe less performant than a 300$ composite, but definitely better than any 200$ composite. We customize them by removing the paint.
Do the production costs for a $250 stick really cost 2-3 times that of the production costs for a 100$ stick? That is EXTREMELY unlikely. They are probably using the exact same equipment to make them, just using a different composite mix to pour into the molds. Nothing more. I'd be willing to bet the profit on the high end sticks is ASTRONOMICAL. Especially compared to the $50-100 composites. It's all plastic, foam, and kevlar, when it comes down to it....
composite sticks are not made from a liquid. No pouring involved. Mostly made of graphite.
