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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
09-04-2012, 12:34 PM
  #26
Blind Gardien
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I'd deal Weber for Raymond. I like Weber better than most Habs fans, I think; the way he started last season, before things unraveled, keeps me hopeful. He has upside. But that said, the team has enough PMD. For now.

Diaz is just a bit ahead, a bit more dynamic, and while he's also much older, I'd rather keep Diaz and wouldn't trade Diaz for Raymond.

Mind you, if we were forced to ditch Kaberle as part of complying with any new lowered salary cap, it would be better to have kept Weber around. So I'd at least want to wait for the new CBA terms to emerge before I went through with such a deal.

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Old
09-04-2012, 12:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
Raymond is a solid player who is a good pker and makes Kesler a better player because of his puck carrying ability. Why not hold on to him in case of injury? We don't need 4/5/6 d men anyway. We can use Raymonds pking and familiarity. I take him on the 4th line over guys like Weise or Oreskovich.

Unless Sweatt, Friesen or someone else on a good contract steps up, why not use Raymond on the 4th line?
because that isn't really the role Raymond should be playing... he's so weak in the corners he's better suited to a 3rd line checking/support role or a 2nd line offensive role.

Sadly he doesn't seem to have either of those spots on the Nucks anymore. Just doesn't fit.

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Old
09-04-2012, 02:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'd deal Weber for Raymond. I like Weber better than most Habs fans, I think; the way he started last season, before things unraveled, keeps me hopeful. He has upside. But that said, the team has enough PMD. For now.

Diaz is just a bit ahead, a bit more dynamic, and while he's also much older, I'd rather keep Diaz and wouldn't trade Diaz for Raymond.

Mind you, if we were forced to ditch Kaberle as part of complying with any new lowered salary cap, it would be better to have kept Weber around. So I'd at least want to wait for the new CBA terms to emerge before I went through with such a deal.

I'd rather do it for Diaz...

While he did show more than Weber last year, people seem to ignore the age & pro experience factor far too much imo. Weber has played only a fraction of the professional (almost 1/2), and is 2 years younger. For a defensman (especially PMD-men who are somewhat slight/small, which means a bigger adjustment curve in dealing with NHL size/strength), that is huge.

I'm of the opinion that in 2 years, there will be no doubt who the superior asset is, btw weber/diaz, though I think both have a good shot at being solid 2nd pairing dmen, if not better.


For depth & roster needs issues, I make the deal for Raymond with either one, don't think I add a 3rd though, maybe a 4th or another lesser prospect/young player (palushaj?).

Raymond would slot in really nicely next to Plekanec this year, imo, especially if they were to move Cole on that line (and put gionta either on Desharnais' wing, or on Eller's wing).


Van fans seem indifferent or supportive of the move, solid proposal...

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Old
09-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Van fans seem indifferent or supportive of the move, solid proposal...
Indifferent describes my attitude. I wouldn't be disappointed at the return, but I'm not of the frame of mind that Raymond is somehow cancerous to our team and needs to be cut out ASAP. A few NHL defenders, even if they are strictly a 6/7 role isn't bad, but I think Raymond would be worth more to other teams. We have players that can fill that 6 and under defender role, so while the move isn't terrible, it doesn't make a ton of sense unless Gillis has news on a defender we don't, or is looking to clear salary.

As many Canuck fans have pointed out, he just doesn't seem to have a spot here worthy of his talents.

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Old
09-04-2012, 03:02 PM
  #30
Vankiller Whale
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I'd rather just trade him for a second, tbh. We have no need for another defenseman.

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Old
09-04-2012, 03:45 PM
  #31
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He'd fill in nicely in Bourque's spot on the 2nd line, but then he has no place. TBH I'd rather not have White out of the lineup in place of Raymond. Raymond is much more skilled and all, but White is that fan favourite, go through the wall type player you want in the lineup in case things go sour.

I'd doubt Armstrong would get booted out for him, they might alternate. Doesn't beat out Prust, or Moen. If he can be an effective centre he'd beat out Nokelainen and Gomez. Eller would still be the 3rd line centre.

Raymond - Eller - Moen/Prust would be a pretty sweet 3rd line, though.

To sum it up, this deal would get rid of 1 of our many pmd and give us another good problem.

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:02 PM
  #32
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He'd fill in nicely in Bourque's spot on the 2nd line, but then he has no place. TBH I'd rather not have White out of the lineup in place of Raymond. Raymond is much more skilled and all, but White is that fan favourite, go through the wall type player you want in the lineup in case things go sour.

I'd doubt Armstrong would get booted out for him, they might alternate. Doesn't beat out Prust, or Moen. If he can be an effective centre he'd beat out Nokelainen and Gomez. Eller would still be the 3rd line centre.

Raymond - Eller - Moen/Prust would be a pretty sweet 3rd line, though.

To sum it up, this deal would get rid of 1 of our many pmd and give us another good problem.
Injuries are inevitable, White's going to be in the lineup more often than not even if he's not in the starting 12. If he can move to center even better , avoiding having to play Nokialainen who is largely useless beyond filling a position.

Between Rayomnd and Bourque they can have competition for the final top six spot and give Eller someone to work with offensively more often than not. Having two guys somewhat borderline for top six work due to question marks doubles the odds that one of them will be good enough for the spot

He fills a need especially since the young guys coming along probably could use more AHL time (except for Palushaj who is at make or break point anyway). I think Habs fans against it underestimate the need for more depth in the middle of the chart at forward than what they have right now. Raymond is a guy that you can test out and see if he works this year and make youngsters earn their spots rather than have them handed to them due to an empty spot.

I think Weber has some upside that it would be nice to keep, but there's a big cohort coming along on defense behind him and he's having difficulty beating out the guys ahead of him. Diaz has more use right now and is very much more the sure thing so I'd rather keep him.

Weber is a cap-hit cheap way for Vancouver to have some insurance and depth at defense. If Vancouver wants to dump Raymond for him I think its a good trade.

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #33
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for a bit more money we coud sign AK and have those assets for someone else

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Old
09-04-2012, 05:23 PM
  #34
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The best i would do is Weber straight up for Raymond.Wouldn't even consider adding a draft pick .No way.

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Old
09-04-2012, 09:36 PM
  #35
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Nothing against the guy but AV insists on trying to slot him with Kesler and by now men blind and deaf could tell him that isn't going to work.
I had an image of Hellen Keller yelling at AV "COME ON! NEITHER CAN PASS, IT OBVIOUSLY WON"T WORK!!!"

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Old
09-05-2012, 10:48 AM
  #36
Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I'd rather do it for Diaz...

While he did show more than Weber last year, people seem to ignore the age & pro experience factor far too much imo. Weber has played only a fraction of the professional (almost 1/2), and is 2 years younger. For a defensman (especially PMD-men who are somewhat slight/small, which means a bigger adjustment curve in dealing with NHL size/strength), that is huge.

I'm of the opinion that in 2 years, there will be no doubt who the superior asset is, btw weber/diaz, though I think both have a good shot at being solid 2nd pairing dmen, if not better.
Well, I can see it going either way. But there's just something more to me in Diaz's "processing speed" which makes me like him better. I'm not sure that the age and experience factors aren't a bit levelled out by the Euro adaptation factor, but who knows. Weber does seem to have a "thicker" build, though, which might ultimately stand him in better stead in the category of slightly-undersized PMD than Diaz's slighter frame.

Ultimately, I'm not sure where or if Raymond would fit in, but I figure he's another option anyway, where we have several question marks up front. Even if Bourque was healthy, we don't really know if he can do the job or not. Armstrong is a reclamation project. Prospects may or may not be ready. Raymond may or may not fit in. But would be worth a shot... at the right price.

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Old
09-05-2012, 11:13 AM
  #37
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I saw raymond going one way and didn't see bad contracts coming back.
Let me fire this one off to MG for the rubber stamp approval, this is a done deal.

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Old
09-05-2012, 02:24 PM
  #38
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Quit the crap with Raymond, bring me Tanev and then we'll talk.

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Old
09-05-2012, 02:25 PM
  #39
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For a second I thought this thread was about arranging for transportation to the Bell Center

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Old
09-05-2012, 04:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
because that isn't really the role Raymond should be playing... he's so weak in the corners he's better suited to a 3rd line checking/support role or a 2nd line offensive role.

Sadly he doesn't seem to have either of those spots on the Nucks anymore. Just doesn't fit.
I know what you are trying to say but this simply isn't true. Raymond is weak on his skates but his puck pursuit/retrieval is excellant. Often one of the first in the corner digging the puck out. His problem is what he does with the puck once he gets it. Often results in a weak shot towards the net and a turnover.

Lets not forget he just returned from a broken back and no off season to prepare. The year previous he was much stronger on his skates and was often one of the few Canucks hitting anyone come playoff time.

The Raymond bashing that goes on is so senseless. He is a 2/3 line tweener offensively and a great defensive player. Draws plenty of penalties with his speed and makes 2.5m or less. Yet we expect a superstar or bust it seems.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:11 AM
  #41
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Raymond for Diaz and a 3rd? Done.

And there's no way you're getting Tanev.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:33 AM
  #42
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Quit the crap with Raymond, bring me Tanev and then we'll talk.
Tanev + Raymond for Collberg + Weber/Diaz(whichever plays right, preferably)

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:38 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Tanev + Raymond for Collberg + Weber/Diaz(whichever plays right, preferably)
C-C-C-C-C-COUNTER-proposal.

Tanev for Weber/Diaz+Kristo+4th

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:40 AM
  #44
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
C-C-C-C-C-COUNTER-proposal.

Tanev for Weber/Diaz+Kristo+4th
Nope. We're not going to trade Tanev into a bunch of spare parts. The way I see it, Tanev = Collberg and Raymond = Weber/Diaz.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:42 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
C-C-C-C-C-COUNTER-proposal.

Tanev for Weber/Diaz+Kristo+4th
Nope. Tanev won't be moved for less then a complete overpayment. Kristo+defender Habs fans can't wait to ride out of town+4th is not that. He is our young, ELC guy that we are relying on to make a difference.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:44 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
C-C-C-C-C-COUNTER-proposal.

Tanev for Weber/Diaz+Kristo+4th
The Canucks have no reason to move Tanev in a deal such as this.

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Old
09-06-2012, 05:46 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
Raymond for Diaz and a 3rd? Done.

And there's no way you're getting Tanev.
There's not a chance we add a draft pick to get Raymond.
Weber straight up if your lucky and we are in the mood.
For Diaz the Nucks are adding the 3rd.

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