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Saad for Plekanec

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Old
09-06-2012, 09:27 AM
  #51
IceDaddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I still don't understand why Hab fans want to move Pleks, we can't afford to move him right now. Gally is not ready and Desharnais had 1 great year, we have no idea if he can keep this up. Also we had a terrible year however we aren't rebuilding, the core is already pretty strong here

The only way it makes sense would be to do it at the trade deadline. It give them time to see if Eller can be more of a shut down center and if DD can repeat his good season.

But personally I would want TT+

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Old
09-06-2012, 09:41 AM
  #52
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The over rating of Brandon Saad continues.......


Hawks do the OP's trade each and every time laughing while the Habs turn it down each and every time holding back giggles.


Saad can over power kids in juniors while his percieved value lies in if he can do the same while playing against men, something he has done very little of and when he did looked out of place.

He fell in the draft for a reason.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:08 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
The over rating of Brandon Saad continues.......


Hawks do the OP's trade each and every time laughing while the Habs turn it down each and every time holding back giggles.


Saad can over power kids in juniors while his percieved value lies in if he can do the same while playing against men, something he has done very little of and when he did looked out of place.

He fell in the draft for a reason.
bzzzzz....wrong

Saad hardly "looked out of place" "while playing against men". In fact quite the opposite which is why the optomism from Hawks fans. He looked pretty darn good in training camp, preseason, and the handful of games he played before being returned to junior (it is really a shame that kids can't get sent to the AHL if they are ready).

He fell in the draft because he had a production drop off that in hindsight seemed to have been driven by injury issues. Like most drafts, if there were a redo a year later...things would be different.

As to the original trade proposal, probably a little reluctance from both sides. Pleks is a finished product for a franchise that probably is not at a point of taking a half step backword to maybe (and yes Saad is a prospect until he actually proves it in the NHL) take a step forward. Habs have the pieces to make the playoffs and that would certainly be their goal. Trading a top 6 for a prospect probably don;t go over well with their fanbase. While the Hawks need a center until proven otherwise, they also need some size in their top 6 almost as badly. Trading a cost controlled asset that seems to fit that need might be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:11 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
The only way it makes sense would be to do it at the trade deadline. It give them time to see if Eller can be more of a shut down center and if DD can repeat his good season.

But personally I would want TT+
Even is DD gives us another great year we would need Eller to step up his game big time. Pleks hits around 55-65 pts per year, Eller ain't gonna be giving us that anytime soon. I just don't think it's the right time to move him, maybe in 2 years from now when Gally is ready to come in

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:11 AM
  #55
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I've really liked what I've seen from Saad.

Tough call.

You can't rebuild a team by pitching all your veterans, because you need your young guys to learn from more experienced players.

But at the same time, rebuilding is about making a statement and making the most out of the assets that you have at the right time.

Very few power forwards burst onto the scene in the NHL in their first season or two.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:51 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I posted this before. Hjarm, Frolik, Saad, and McNeil for Plekanec, Cole, and young Dman (Weber?).
.
That deal sucks for Hawks

Weakens team defensively and gives up 2 of our better prospects for a good #2 C , A streaky vet winger and a dman who is worthless for Hawks given they already have plenty of dmen like him

If Hawks were to get into a deal for Plekanec it would be at trade deadline (Whenever we have a season) and would more likley involve a prospect not named Saad (Maybe McNeill for instance) and Hawks 1st rounder in next draft

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:55 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Even is DD gives us another great year we would need Eller to step up his game big time. Pleks hits around 55-65 pts per year, Eller ain't gonna be giving us that anytime soon. I just don't think it's the right time to move him, maybe in 2 years from now when Gally is ready to come in
2 years from now Pleks wont be worth as much as now.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:59 AM
  #58
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Not seeing how this helps the Habs crap center depth.

Galchenyuk is great but let's be realistic he missed all last year with a torn ACL and only played a couple games in the playoffs. He may become a really good center he may not that's why you can't trade proven centers for prospect wingers while counting your chickens before they hatch.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #59
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Players far more valuable than Plek:
Jordan Staal for Sutter and 1st round pick
Mike Richards and Bordson for Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd rounder
Jeff Carter for Voracek and 1st round pick and 3rd round pick

Players comparable to the value of Plek:
Derek Roy for Ott and Pardy
Ribeiro for Eakin and 2nd rounder

I don't see why this is so difficult to figure out.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:18 AM
  #60
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I agree with the statements made by some that Saad out-powered in Juniors and will need to take a big step to be ready for the NHL. With that in mind, I think considering moving Stalberg and Saad could benefit both teams if the Habs have what it takes to replace Plekanec at the moment. Chicago needs a winger of the likes that Kyle Beach was projected to be and I think Morin's injury caused him to be severely underrated, he could come back strong.

Now, from watching last season I am a die hard advocate of Pat Kane as our 2C. Toews looked more dominant/motivated without Kane on the wing and Kane was making far more dangerous plays from the middle. Kane and Toews have such good chemistry on the cycle that they'll go shift after shift keeping possession while never getting a decent scoring opportunity out of it, like the Sedins in the Playoffs. If Kane isn't our 2C, Brandon Pirri looks like a solid possibility there after a good showing in the AHL last year. Having Plekanec would give us a luxury that we could really use because you can at least count on one of Toews/Kane/Bolland being out for a while.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:18 AM
  #61
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Saad isn't being moved. Teravainen isn't being moved.

/thread.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:19 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Players far more valuable than Plek:
Jordan Staal for Sutter and 1st round pick
Mike Richards and Bordson for Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd rounder
Jeff Carter for Voracek and 1st round pick and 3rd round pick

Players comparable to the value of Plek:
Derek Roy for Ott and Pardy
Ribeiro for Eakin and 2nd rounder

I don't see why this is so difficult to figure out.

Disagree.

IMO

Staal,Richards,Carter>Plekanec>Roy,Ribeiro

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:20 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
The over rating of Brandon Saad continues.......


Hawks do the OP's trade each and every time laughing while the Habs turn it down each and every time holding back giggles.


Saad can over power kids in juniors while his percieved value lies in if he can do the same while playing against men, something he has done very little of and when he did looked out of place.

He fell in the draft for a reason.
This post has so much wrong with it. Stick to Rocford bud.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:58 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Toews best season ; 76 1 year ago. Plekanec's best season 70 2 years ago.
Who's the better leader ? Toews for sure take it. Who's the better 2-way player ? Pretty equal heh ? Who's paid more ? Who's playing with Hossa, Sharp and Kane ? Who had Cammaleri and Kostitsyn ?

I'd take Toews 393983934 times before Plekanec. But Toews is not what you guy's say he is.
Best season? How about points per game in their careers? Me thinks you don't want to go there.
Or even points in the playoffs...
There is not 1 thing Plekanec is better at than Toews.

The better two way palyer is Toews.
Offensively Toews is better.
Leadership Toews is far better.
Faceoffs Toews is better.


It's not close no matter what way you try to spin it.

FYI - Toews outscored Plekanec (LAST YEAR) by 5pts in 22 less games...

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:04 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
Disagree.

IMO

Staal,Richards,Carter>Plekanec>Roy,Ribeiro
Data taken at time of trade:

Roy has a career 0.78 ppg, 0.29gpg. 29 years old
Ribeiro has a career 0.76 ppg, 0.23gpg. 32 years old
Richards has a career 0.77 ppg, 0.29gpg, 26 years old
Carter has a career 0.74 ppg, 0.39 gpg. 26 years old
Plekanec has a career 0.66 ppg, 0.26 gpg. 29 years old
Staal has a career 0.58 ppg, 0.28 gpg. 23 years old

If i were to rate them defensively:
Staal>Richards>Plekanec>Carter>Roy>>Ribeiro

Staal is the only one who has always played with poor wingers.

I would put Plekanec below Roy and above Ribeiro in value if he were traded at this moment (obviously below the other 3).

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:07 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
bzzzzz....wrong

Saad hardly "looked out of place" "while playing against men". In fact quite the opposite which is why the optomism from Hawks fans.
Hawk fans in general in this forum like to trump up what ever the flavor of the month is instead of actually looking into what it is that they actually have. Go to their sub forum and see how the potential of teuvo teravainen, who is 165 pounds soaking wet and hasnt played a single minute in NA outside of a prospects camp and has been regulated to euro leagues of which,imo, cant even compare to actual NHL type play and are worse then the AHL, is reguarded as their best prospect as a primer.

At last glace they have a thread with a link to something Corey Pronman had written...case closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
He looked pretty darn good in training camp,
Um..ok?
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
preseason,
And?
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
and the handful of games he played before being returned to junior (it is really a shame that kids can't get sent to the AHL if they are ready).
Bingo! If he was as great as many wish he was, he would have stuck with the big club. He didnt, and went back to juniors and dominated kids with his size. In the NHL, he wont have that physical luxury, but his size is impressive. If he can actually put it all togther then the Hawks might have something but again, the jury is still out, and you dont trade a question mark for a proven player, sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
He fell in the draft because he had a production drop off that in hindsight seemed to have been driven by injury issues. Like most drafts, if there were a redo a year later...things would be different.
This has come up countless times with Hawk fans proclaiming Saad a top 10 pick in a redo and it just isnt the case. Injuries? Sure, but the fact remains if he can keep up that type of production against men, and that hasnt been seen yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2wojo View Post
As to the original trade proposal, probably a little reluctance from both sides. Pleks is a finished product for a franchise that probably is not at a point of taking a half step backword to maybe (and yes Saad is a prospect until he actually proves it in the NHL) take a step forward. Habs have the pieces to make the playoffs and that would certainly be their goal. Trading a top 6 for a prospect probably don;t go over well with their fanbase. While the Hawks need a center until proven otherwise, they also need some size in their top 6 almost as badly. Trading a cost controlled asset that seems to fit that need might be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Agreed.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:19 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
The over rating of Brandon Saad continues.......


Hawks do the OP's trade each and every time laughing while the Habs turn it down each and every time holding back giggles.


Saad can over power kids in juniors while his percieved value lies in if he can do the same while playing against men, something he has done very little of and when he did looked out of place.

He fell in the draft for a reason.
Just like every single other player that's ever come out of Juniors ever

Saad had a beast season last year and is a top prospect. Sure-thing? Nope. But how many guys are? Yakupov.. maybe.. but then every other prospect is a wait and see thing.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:34 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Players far more valuable than Plek:
Jordan Staal for Sutter and 1st round pick
Mike Richards and Bordson for Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd rounder
Jeff Carter for Voracek and 1st round pick and 3rd round pick

Players comparable to the value of Plek:
Derek Roy for Ott and Pardy
Ribeiro for Eakin and 2nd rounder

I don't see why this is so difficult to figure out.
Ribeiro is a rental, though.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:39 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Data taken at time of trade:

Roy has a career 0.78 ppg, 0.29gpg. 29 years old
Ribeiro has a career 0.76 ppg, 0.23gpg. 32 years old
Richards has a career 0.77 ppg, 0.29gpg, 26 years old
Carter has a career 0.74 ppg, 0.39 gpg. 26 years old
Plekanec has a career 0.66 ppg, 0.26 gpg. 29 years old
Staal has a career 0.58 ppg, 0.28 gpg. 23 years old

If i were to rate them defensively:
Staal>Richards>Plekanec>Carter>Roy>>Ribeiro

Staal is the only one who has always played with poor wingers.

I would put Plekanec below Roy and above Ribeiro in value if he were traded at this moment (obviously below the other 3).
Career ppg is not a good gauging tool in this context. A player like Plekanec took longer to develop than someone like Roy. Today, however, I think most teams in the NHL would prefer giving their 2C slot to Plekanec rather than Roy, both for offensive and defensive duties.

Defensively, by the way, I consider Plekanec pretty much on par with Richards and Staal. He's not as gritty though but he's as good, if not better, PKer.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:53 PM
  #70
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You could bet that if the Blackhawks come calling about Pleks, the first thing Timmins will have Bergevin ask for is Teravainen.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:06 PM
  #71
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Martini is the type of poster who doesn't comprehend common sense.

A PROSPECT a question mark?! No way?!?!

There is plenty to be optimistic about in regards to Saad. You buzzkill.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:13 PM
  #72
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No deal.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:16 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Career ppg is not a good gauging tool in this context. A player like Plekanec took longer to develop than someone like Roy. Today, however, I think most teams in the NHL would prefer giving their 2C slot to Plekanec rather than Roy, both for offensive and defensive duties.

Defensively, by the way, I consider Plekanec pretty much on par with Richards and Staal. He's not as gritty though but he's as good, if not better, PKer.
I don't find it unreasonable to say Plekanec is better than Roy. I do however find that of recent trades for centers, Roy's trade is the most relevant because he is the most comparable guy in age, skill set, and the fact that they both are coming off of unspectacular years. That is why i feel that a reasonable value basis would be on the level of Ott and Pardy as opposed to some of the more...interesting evaluations I've seen. I don't really know anything about Pardy so I struggle to find a comparable deal for Chicago to propose.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:33 PM
  #74
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To give up a proven player for just a prospect doesn't make sense for MON.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:35 PM
  #75
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It's just ridiculous to make a trade with plekanec before the deadline. Habs can't afford to lose him right now without sacrifying the season (you can't do this on purpose in montreal without getting flame). At the deadline or at draft day next year, Plek could be moved for the right prize (a substantial one) if Eller or Galchenyuk have prove something special. I think it is fair to assume it would need to be Saad+ or Teravainen+. So I guess we are better to wait and see. I definitely would prefer that Bergevin find a decent winger for plekanec instead of trading him but that looks hard to do.

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