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Episode IX|The Off-Season Thread|It's... still the offseason.

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09-05-2012, 09:39 AM
  #76
Milliardo
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Sorry for being OT. but I don't see it in him. Everyone is all praise for him but he only put up 55 points. I mean yeah he's a good player but I don't get all this hype.

Is there something about him not on paper that makes him so amazing?
First of all that's pretty good for a rookie who's coming right off the draft and second, that's more than Staal ever got in a season. Oh and third, what does any of this have to do with being a captain?

Kelly Buchberger was a great captain, Jason Smith, there are many captain who don't produce a lot of points.


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09-05-2012, 09:51 AM
  #77
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Callahan, Brown and Morrow say hi. It's not all about production. Consistent work ethic on and off the ice and coming up big in key moments when your team needs you is far more important IMO.
Last season of the 21 forward captains 7 were their teams leading scorer and only 3 played 75 games or more and were not in their teams top 3.

I agree its not all about production, but it does play a role.

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Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
First of all that's pretty good for a rookie who's coming right off the draft and second, that's more than Staal ever got in a season. Oh and third, what does any of this have to do with being a captain?

Kelly Buchberger was a great captain, Jason Smith, there are many captain who don't produce a lot of points.
That post had nothing to do with him being a captain so much as him receiving a ridiculous amount of hype.

and yeah 55 for a rookie is good, but its not unheard of. I just feel like he's getting a lot of hype that isn't justified by his on paper stats. Especially considering RNH put up the same points in less games.


Last edited by Candyman: 09-05-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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Old
09-05-2012, 10:23 AM
  #78
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Last season of the 21 forward captains 7 were their teams leading scorer and only 3 played 75 games or more and were not in their teams top 3.

I agree its not all about production, but it does play a role.
He was in his team's top 3, in fact he was 3 points off first place.

Quote:
That post had nothing to do with him being a captain so much as him receiving a ridiculous amount of hype.

and yeah 55 for a rookie is good, but its not unheard of. I just feel like he's getting a lot of hype that isn't justified by his on paper stats. Especially considering RNH put up the same points in less games.
He lived up to it and then some. 20+30 for a rookie is great. That made him a legitimate top six option despite coming straight from major junior.

What on paper stats aren't there? You're just talking about goals assists and points and not being very considerate. Landeskog has always by definition been a player who's value is far greater than those numbers show. He's not a #1 scoring center (RNH who should outscore him), he's an elite complementary winger who just had his first good season.

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09-05-2012, 12:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
He was in his team's top 3, in fact he was 3 points off first place.



He lived up to it and then some. 20+30 for a rookie is great. That made him a legitimate top six option despite coming straight from major junior.

What on paper stats aren't there? You're just talking about goals assists and points and not being very considerate. Landeskog has always by definition been a player who's value is far greater than those numbers show. He's not a #1 scoring center (RNH who should outscore him), he's an elite complementary winger who just had his first good season.
that's why I'm asking if there's more value than his numbers show, not that his numbers aren't good, just that they aren't jaw dropping. Certainly not good enough to warrant all the attention he's been receiving.

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09-05-2012, 12:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
that's why I'm asking if there's more value than his numbers show, not that his numbers aren't good, just that they aren't jaw dropping. Certainly not good enough to warrant all the attention he's been receiving.
I think Staal is a good example when talking about guys bringing more than their numbers show.

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09-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
that's why I'm asking if there's more value than his numbers show, not that his numbers aren't good, just that they aren't jaw dropping. Certainly not good enough to warrant all the attention he's been receiving.
I don't know what attention he's getting besides the captain thing, where I'd imagine half the posts aren't pumping his tires.

Pascal Dupuis just had an amazing year and had 6 more points at 32. If Eric Tangradi rivaled that production at age 22 we'd be ecstatic. Now imagine a 19 year came to our club next season and did that while serving as the glue guy a line needs to be successful. We'd go nuts and the guy would be beyond untouchable, but because his point totals don't jump at out you, fans around the league could make the same comments you are.

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09-05-2012, 02:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I don't know what attention he's getting besides the captain thing, where I'd imagine half the posts aren't pumping his tires.

Pascal Dupuis just had an amazing year and had 6 more points at 32. If Eric Tangradi rivaled that production at age 22 we'd be ecstatic. Now imagine a 19 year came to our club next season and did that while serving as the glue guy a line needs to be successful. We'd go nuts and the guy would be beyond untouchable, but because his point totals don't jump at out you, fans around the league could make the same comments you are.
The attention isn't as evident here as on social media where i've seen posts comparing him to Crosby, which is just ludacris.

If Tangradi played top line minutes and didn't put up 55 points i'd be disappointed. especially on this team.

Like i've said he had a good year, and that's great. but I wouldn't call him untouchable (unless you're referring to trades/movement). I think we need a bigger sample size before we put to much stock behind him. If he comes back next year and produces 70-80 points then the hype was worth it. If he comes back and produces 30 then all of the hype looks ridiculous.

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Old
09-05-2012, 04:48 PM
  #83
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If Tangradi played top line minutes and didn't put up 55 points i'd be disappointed. especially on this team.
I like Tangradi, but there is no way he puts up 55 points playing top line. Maybe in a couple of years if his game really takes off that's a possibility but right now, I'd be happy if he got 15 and 15 playing with either Geno or Sid.

Kunitz played 82 games last year mostly on Geno's wing and didn't hit 50. Think about that.

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09-05-2012, 05:09 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Wes C Addle View Post
I like Tangradi, but there is no way he puts up 55 points playing top line. Maybe in a couple of years if his game really takes off that's a possibility but right now, I'd be happy if he got 15 and 15 playing with either Geno or Sid.

Kunitz played 82 games last year mostly on Geno's wing and didn't hit 50. Think about that.
I think we'll be pleasantly surprised what Tangradi brings when he's put in a position to succeed with more minutes and talent around him.

And Kunitz had career highs in goals and points last year. 26/35/61.

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09-05-2012, 05:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Wes C Addle View Post
I like Tangradi, but there is no way he puts up 55 points playing top line. Maybe in a couple of years if his game really takes off that's a possibility but right now, I'd be happy if he got 15 and 15 playing with either Geno or Sid.

Kunitz played 82 games last year mostly on Geno's wing and didn't hit 50. Think about that.
I'll do more than that & look it up because I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

61 points...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2871

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09-05-2012, 09:50 PM
  #86
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I'll do more than that & look it up because I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

61 points...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2871
Tangradi won't get the powerplay time Kunitz gets. Unless he takes Kunitz's spot, at which point Kunitz will be a 40-45 point player. If Tangradi comes in and puts up 40 points without top line powerplay time that's a really good season. Kunitz put up 43 ES points last year.

When you basically only have 1 powerplay unit that gets any decent time, you can't have all 6 of your top 6 forwards on the powerplay. So you can't judge them all on their total points.

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09-05-2012, 11:15 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I'll do more than that & look it up because I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

61 points...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2871
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Tangradi won't get the powerplay time Kunitz gets. Unless he takes Kunitz's spot, at which point Kunitz will be a 40-45 point player. If Tangradi comes in and puts up 40 points without top line powerplay time that's a really good season. Kunitz put up 43 ES points last year.

When you basically only have 1 powerplay unit that gets any decent time, you can't have all 6 of your top 6 forwards on the powerplay. So you can't judge them all on their total points.
You're right I was, but the point still stands. As Ogre says, 40 points would be a very good season. Expecting Tangradi to hit 50 plus points is setting the bar at a level that would have to be extreme best case scenario for him.

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09-06-2012, 12:02 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Tangradi won't get the powerplay time Kunitz gets. Unless he takes Kunitz's spot, at which point Kunitz will be a 40-45 point player. If Tangradi comes in and puts up 40 points without top line powerplay time that's a really good season. Kunitz put up 43 ES points last year.

When you basically only have 1 powerplay unit that gets any decent time, you can't have all 6 of your top 6 forwards on the powerplay. So you can't judge them all on their total points.

True, Tangradi will not take Kunitz's spot on the top PP unit. However, one of the things we need to improve as a team going forward -- and this may not happen for a few more years until we can get more skilled forwards & Dmen into our line up -- is improve our 2nd PP unit.

Tangradi is sure to be a fixture in front of the net on the 2nd PP. If we can see a guy like Dustin Jeffrey return fully healed and ready to go, he could be the guy who can quarterback the 2nd PP from the right half wall, with a right-hander like TK on the other side. What we're missing there is an NHL-ready Morrow or Pouliot to complete the unit, but if Tangradi & Jeffrey perform well this season, you can see that we've got the makings of a decent 2nd PP unit, in which Tangradi should be able to put up some points and get the experience to take over Kunitz's role someday.

All that being said, I do not see Tangradi as a top-6 winger this season unless he just blows people away -- and I've always been a Tangradi supporter. I think it is more likely that he gets bottom 6 time this season and work his way up through the line up. I also don't think Shero is done making moves to improve this roster (i.e. trades), but all GMing is on hold until the CBA gets sorted out.

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09-06-2012, 06:44 AM
  #89
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I'm not so sure Tangradi couldn't supplant Kunitz. Tangradi has room to improve, and at Kunitz's age, it can only go down. And let's face it, Kunitz is serviceable at what he does there on the PP, but he's much less than ideal.

Tangradi is the ideal net front guy on the PP. If he can up his level of play enough, I think he'd start at least splitting time with Kunitz in that spot.

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09-06-2012, 08:48 AM
  #90
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I'm not so sure Tangradi couldn't supplant Kunitz. Tangradi has room to improve, and at Kunitz's age, it can only go down. And let's face it, Kunitz is serviceable at what he does there on the PP, but he's much less than ideal.

Tangradi is the ideal net front guy on the PP. If he can up his level of play enough, I think he'd start at least splitting time with Kunitz in that spot.
This is actually possible. But at that point, are people going to be calling Kunitz and his 45 points old and declining because he lost his powerplay spot? I hope we are smarter than that as a fan base. Just look at 2011 TK vs every other year of TK to see what powerplay time means to a player's total stats.

And Jmelm, we are never going to see two even powerplays time-wise unless we split Sid and Geno. And that's not even worth discussing until we have the point guys to run two units. Maybe when Morrow makes the jump. As long as Sid and Geno are both on powerplay line one, powerplay line two will be getting garbage 20-30 second shifts at best aside from extended powerplays. Last year Staal led the 2nd unit powerplay with 1:59 a game and 7 PP points. After him Cooke and TK had 6 and 3 powerplay points.

To put it more simply: Tyler Kennedy was our 3rd forward on the 2nd powerplay. Crosby had more total powerplay time than TK last year.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 09-06-2012 at 09:04 AM.
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09-06-2012, 09:17 AM
  #91
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Wtf... FAIL!!!!!



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09-06-2012, 09:19 AM
  #92
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Wtf... FAIL!!!!!


gotta sell those magazines

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09-06-2012, 09:31 AM
  #93
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I'd love to see them go head to head for a few shifts. See Sid's skating ability in full effect.

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09-06-2012, 09:56 AM
  #94
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Wtf... FAIL!!!!!


It's just a sensationalist headline.

Besides, any magazine that advertises "The World According To Scott Hartnell" should not be taken seriously.

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09-06-2012, 10:26 AM
  #95
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Wtf... FAIL!!!!!




Anything to sell a magazine, eh?

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09-06-2012, 10:28 AM
  #96
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Wtf... FAIL!!!!!


Holy wtf have you done for me lately.

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09-06-2012, 10:32 AM
  #97
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I just love that Geno gets no love. Why wasn't it Giroux or Geno? Or maybe add Stamkos, Geno, and maybe Ovy and make it a top 5. I don't know.

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09-06-2012, 03:33 PM
  #98
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A magazine sells out its credibility to sell more magazines. Surprise surprise

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09-06-2012, 04:26 PM
  #99
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I just love that Geno gets no love. Why wasn't it Giroux or Geno? Or maybe add Stamkos, Geno, and maybe Ovy and make it a top 5. I don't know.
Agreed. The title should have been "who's better now Crosby or Malkin?"

Giroux isn't even in the picture as far as that goes to begin with.

Neither Giroux or Hartnell will have Jagr's prowess to heighten their talents again. I don't see them dropping much but it will drop.

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09-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #100
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I just love that Geno gets no love. Why wasn't it Giroux or Geno? Or maybe add Stamkos, Geno, and maybe Ovy and make it a top 5. I don't know.
Yeah

So much for "Malkin being overrated" eh.

Poor guy gets none of the love he deserves.

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