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Sharks Prospect Info/Discussion 6.0

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Old
09-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #76
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So where is Kuraly playing next season -USHL again? Whats the best guess on when he might turn pro??

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09-02-2012, 03:52 PM
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So where is Kuraly playing next season -USHL again? Whats the best guess on when he might turn pro??
I think he's playing at Miami (Ohio)...not 100% sure of that. If that's the case figure a minimum of two season in the NCAA.

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09-02-2012, 04:34 PM
  #78
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Per Wingels, he'll be @ Miami

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09-02-2012, 06:40 PM
  #79
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So where is Kuraly playing next season -USHL again? Whats the best guess on when he might turn pro??
He'll be in college, and I expect him to play two years minimum, three years probably, and four years possibly. His dad is the all-time leading scorer at Miami U. at Ohio, so maybe he wants to try and break his father's record.

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09-02-2012, 10:21 PM
  #80
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Per Wingels, he'll be @ Miami
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He'll be in college, and I expect him to play two years minimum, three years probably, and four years possibly. His dad is the all-time leading scorer at Miami U. at Ohio, so maybe he wants to try and break his father's record.
Thanks, i think i knew this... just to many prospects to memorize...

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09-03-2012, 05:32 AM
  #81
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Thanks, i think i knew this... just to many prospects to memorize...
No love again...

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09-03-2012, 11:09 AM
  #82
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A pretty decent write up on Sharks prospects. I don't 100% agree with him on everything but he's pretty good about getting a lot of input from a lot of different scouts on players.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1370

And before people laugh or complain about Petrecki & Doherty being on there, keep in mind he has a lot more info on these players then most and this is based on upside - not necessarily where these players are at currently.

He also doesn't rank goaltenders.


Last edited by stalockrox: 09-03-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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09-03-2012, 11:25 AM
  #83
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A pretty decent write up on Sharks prospects. I don't 100% agree with him on everything but he's pretty good about getting a lot of input from a lot of different scouts on players.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=310

And before people laugh or complain about Petrecki & Doherty being on there, keep in mind he has a lot more info on these players then most and this is based on upside - not necessarily where these players are at currently.

He also doesn't rank goaltenders.
Wrong link.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1370

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09-03-2012, 11:27 AM
  #84
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Thanks!! (see, I give you some love)

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09-03-2012, 11:33 AM
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Thanks!! (see, I give you some love)


The write-ups are decent...I do have an issue with his rankings and I think that both Stalberg and Irwin in the Sharks top 15.

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09-03-2012, 11:38 AM
  #86
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The write-ups are decent...I do have an issue with his rankings and I think that both Stalberg and Irwin in the Sharks top 15.
I don't disagree - the one big issue I have with Pronman is that he doesn't actually scout a lot of the players (and how could he??) so much of the info he has is 'secondhand', although, it's from other scouts. I also think some of his projections are conservative, which is also fine.

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09-03-2012, 12:40 PM
  #87
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Pronman is typically extremely conservative on his rankings, it doesn't surprise me. I like that he generally disregards draft pedigree, but I think he has a few guys wrong. Obviously that's just me, who's only ever see a couple of guys play, but some just seem a bit off.

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09-06-2012, 01:00 PM
  #88
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...rks-prospects/

Easy to see the trend in how the Sharks are drafting: forwards with high hockey IQ and two-way ability, and smaller but excellent skating offensive defensemen. Definitely a step forward from the Nick Petrecki type of picks.

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09-06-2012, 01:29 PM
  #89
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...rks-prospects/

Easy to see the trend in how the Sharks are drafting: forwards with high hockey IQ and two-way ability, and smaller but excellent skating offensive defensemen. Definitely a step forward from the Nick Petrecki type of picks.
I have to agree.

Not a bad ranking or our prospects either.

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09-06-2012, 01:30 PM
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Yeah, it was actually not bad. I think HF is a little too high on Hamilton, but otherwise I have no qualms.

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09-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #91
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I haven't been watching the Sharks for all that long but I got the sense that they used to have a deep forward group and played a more defensive game in general before Thornton came here. Does it seem like they're going back to that philosophy in the drafting since Thornton and the big offensive guys are getting older? Or am I making upa false history of things?

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09-06-2012, 05:47 PM
  #92
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that's a surprisingly solid prospect ranking from HF (especially considering it was written/compiled by someone who doesn't follow the Sharks as closely as other teams). Not sure I'm on board with pushing Kuraly all the way up to #5, or dropping Petrecki all the way down to #18 (though I understand and admit that he's really imploded potential-wise). Also a little surprised that Viedensky

The only other thing that's interesting is that the rankings don't all seem to fit with the HF grading scheme. Sefton and Joakim Ryan both grade out equal to or better than Petrecki, but neither makes the list. Marek Viedensky probably also didn't deserve to get booted from the top 20 either (and he grades the same as Blackwell, Stalberg, Mashinter, and Petrecki)

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09-06-2012, 07:08 PM
  #93
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Top 5 prospects are forwards. I like that.

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09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #94
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that's a surprisingly solid prospect ranking from HF (especially considering it was written/compiled by someone who doesn't follow the Sharks as closely as other teams). Not sure I'm on board with pushing Kuraly all the way up to #5, or dropping Petrecki all the way down to #18 (though I understand and admit that he's really imploded potential-wise). Also a little surprised that Viedensky

The only other thing that's interesting is that the rankings don't all seem to fit with the HF grading scheme. Sefton and Joakim Ryan both grade out equal to or better than Petrecki, but neither makes the list. Marek Viedensky probably also didn't deserve to get booted from the top 20 either (and he grades the same as Blackwell, Stalberg, Mashinter, and Petrecki)
Thank you about the Top 20 list and if you haven't seen the rest of my ratings and rankings then take a look at the Top 20 article thread. I posted all the rest of the Sharks prospects outside of the Top 20 list with some information on each player on that thread.

Kuraly has really improved but I will be honest with you about where he's ranked on the Top 20 list. It might be a little pre-mature but if he continues this rate of development at Miami (OHIO) University in the NCAA this coming season then he could move even closer to the Top of the list. I really saw him at the 9-12th spot not 5th but I was convinced by the Managing editor who saw Kuraly play live at the US WJC Evaluation Camp, to put him at the number 5 spot on the Top 20 list. He sees him as a bigger, slightly faster and more skilled the Marcus Foligno(BUF) type player. This kid is really solid defensively first but his offensive potential is really big because his speed gets him out in the open ice and his offensive finish has really improved.

The biggest problem with the ratings is there aren't any half grades or it would be a little more clear. A player like Petrecki hasn't lived up to his projected potential but could where others like Ryan, it's a little to early to tell. Sefton played on a horrible team and a lot of that played into his stunted development and little improvement in his overall game. Viedensky doesn't have the offensive upside that the others above him have but it's his defensive game and penalty killing which will get him to the NHL. He just didn't excel at either in his rookie AHL season and will need to be outstandingin those areas this coming year, to gain enough confidence to add to his offensive game.

For me, there's not a very big difference between any of the Sharks' prospects from 13th spot down to 30th. It all depends on development and improvement at each level as they move forward in their careers. It takes all different types players to make a winning team at any level of hockey but it's the little things that gets a player to the NHL.


I hope my comments helped you understand a little more of what my thinking was when making the Top 20 list. Thanks again for the comments and reading the article!

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09-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Yeah, it was actually not bad. I think HF is a little too high on Hamilton, but otherwise I have no qualms.
Hamilton has the all-round game needed to make the NHL and just has to adjust to the size and speed of the pro level game. The two-way, physical and hard working centerman can play all the forward positions but is better at center because his speeding is very good to play the full 200ft of the ice and his playmaking skills are better suited to the middle ice position. He's the type of player that teams need to win games and championships. In the last seven years, most players who are chosen to play on Team Canada at the WJC tournament and play a big role in the line-up have gone on to play in the NHL. Some more successful than others. Some of the players who are cut from Team Canada's WJC squad use it as motivation in their careers to make an impact at the next levels, just to prove that they should have made the team.

All that being said about Hamilton, maybe he wouldn't be as high on the list if the other Sharks' prospects were stronger players at this time. The Top 20 list is always changing as each new season starts and progresses. That's why the HF site does a few each year to reflect those changes in the prospects' development. I hope this helps you understand more of my thinking on the Top 20 list.

Thanks for reading the article and making comments on it! It is really appreciated by me!

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09-06-2012, 09:12 PM
  #96
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Hamilton has the all-round game needed to make the NHL and just has to adjust to the size and speed of the pro level game. The two-way, physical and hard working centerman can play all the forward positions but is better at center because his speeding is very good to play the full 200ft of the ice and his playmaking skills are better suited to the middle ice position. He's the type of player that teams need to win games and championships. In the last seven years, most players who are chosen to play on Team Canada at the WJC tournament and play a big role in the line-up have gone on to play in the NHL. Some more successful than others. Some of the players who are cut from Team Canada's WJC squad use it as motivation in their careers to make an impact at the next levels, just to prove that they should have made the team.

All that being said about Hamilton, maybe he wouldn't be as high on the list if the other Sharks' prospects were stronger players at this time. The Top 20 list is always changing as each new season starts and progresses. That's why the HF site does a few each year to reflect those changes in the prospects' development. I hope this helps you understand more of my thinking on the Top 20 list.

Thanks for reading the article and making comments on it! It is really appreciated by me!
You misunderstand me. I have no issue with where he's ranked, but rather that people think he could be a top-6 forward. From everything I've heard, he seems like the prototypical 3rd liner and nothing more offensively. I love his defensive game and his speed and physicality and his intelligence, but I just don't think he has the offensive potential to cut it in a scoring role.

(Obviously, I'm just basing this on the admittedly small sample size of games from the WJC, and from lost of people who watch him play, so I guess I could be way, way off).

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09-07-2012, 01:56 AM
  #97
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You misunderstand me. I have no issue with where he's ranked, but rather that people think he could be a top-6 forward. From everything I've heard, he seems like the prototypical 3rd liner and nothing more offensively. I love his defensive game and his speed and physicality and his intelligence, but I just don't think he has the offensive potential to cut it in a scoring role.

(Obviously, I'm just basing this on the admittedly small sample size of games from the WJC, and from lost of people who watch him play, so I guess I could be way, way off).
I know what you are saying about Hamilton but what I was trying to point out is that he will be at worst a good third line centerman. He finished 8th in scoring in the OHL for the regular season and third in the OHL playoffs while shuting down the oppositions best forward line all year. Ryan Strome (NYI) played against the opposition's second or third line instead and finished thirty-third in the regular season and fifth in the OHL playoffs on the same Niagara Ice Dogs team.

You need to look at the whole picture of what the player's roles are on his team, what place his team is in and what league he's playing in. There are a lot of factors to how a prospect will perform at each level and stats tell a little of the story but can also be misleading at times if you don't take everything into consideration. Hamilton's numbers improved from last by about only three points but he played less games and in the WJC for Canada. His role on the team this past season changed to a more defensive shutdown role which he was also able to bring the same or better offensive output. So Hamilton's overall game became far better than if he had just played the offensive role and put up bigger offensive stats.

You see what I am saying about his potential as an NHL player, it's more as the second line centerman who plays against the opposition's top forward line every night. He could be the top offensive line center as well but it's the two-way game which gives the coach the multiple options with Hamilton. NHL coaches love players who can do both equally well and play all the specialty teams. It's what make Pavelski so valuable to the Sharks now and Hamilton will be like that in the future if his development keeps up at the same pace.

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09-07-2012, 09:56 AM
  #98
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As several others have said, this is definitely the best prospect list HF has done. However, I don't really agree with the rankings or some of the 'projections'.

I don't think Hamilton projects easily as a top 6 forward - I could see him developing into a 40pt shutdown center (which would be awesome!) but I'm not so sure his scoring will translate at the next level. This season in the AHL should be telling and I'd really, really love it if you turn out to be right about him.

I think both Abeltshauser and DeMelo should be ranked above Doherty, as both project to be top 4 d-men and have a pretty decent chance of reaching that upside. I do think Doherty has NHL upside (and huge upside if, huge if, he can put it together) but he's going to be a long term project.

I don't think Tierney projects to be a shutdown center, more of a two way scoring forward. As mentioned in his write up, he changed his game over the course of the past two seasons so he could earn a spot on the 4th line as a shutdown center, but he has some good offensive upside that should shine this year with the Knights graduating 3 of their top centers to the next level.

I don't think Viedensky should've been dropped from the top 20, it took him a while to get used to the pro game last year but by the 2nd half of the season he had the defensive side figured out (he was fantastic on the PK) and I think this season we'll see him pick up the offensive side as well.

I also think O'Regan and Ryan should be ranked above the likes of Lalancette, Mashinter, Ferriero based on skill and upside.

Lastly, Sateri has played 1 season in NA so I'm not sure when he was supposed to show he can carry a team. From what I've seen, read, heard of him he's got starter upside and from what I've gathered the Sharks org loves him. I love Stalock and think if he's pretty close to breaking into the NHL as a backup, but I see Sateri as the SJ goalie of the future.

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09-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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As several others have said, this is definitely the best prospect list HF has done. However, I don't really agree with the rankings or some of the 'projections'.

I don't think Hamilton projects easily as a top 6 forward - I could see him developing into a 40pt shutdown center (which would be awesome!) but I'm not so sure his scoring will translate at the next level. This season in the AHL should be telling and I'd really, really love it if you turn out to be right about him.

I think both Abeltshauser and DeMelo should be ranked above Doherty, as both project to be top 4 d-men and have a pretty decent chance of reaching that upside. I do think Doherty has NHL upside (and huge upside if, huge if, he can put it together) but he's going to be a long term project.

I don't think Tierney projects to be a shutdown center, more of a two way scoring forward. As mentioned in his write up, he changed his game over the course of the past two seasons so he could earn a spot on the 4th line as a shutdown center, but he has some good offensive upside that should shine this year with the Knights graduating 3 of their top centers to the next level.

I don't think Viedensky should've been dropped from the top 20, it took him a while to get used to the pro game last year but by the 2nd half of the season he had the defensive side figured out (he was fantastic on the PK) and I think this season we'll see him pick up the offensive side as well.

I also think O'Regan and Ryan should be ranked above the likes of Lalancette, Mashinter, Ferriero based on skill and upside.

Lastly, Sateri has played 1 season in NA so I'm not sure when he was supposed to show he can carry a team. From what I've seen, read, heard of him he's got starter upside and from what I've gathered the Sharks org loves him. I love Stalock and think if he's pretty close to breaking into the NHL as a backup, but I see Sateri as the SJ goalie of the future.
Thank you.

I have mentioned my reasons of why I think Hamilton will be that kind of player and it's more his smart two-way game that will get him there. His abilities to shutdown the best forwards but also out score them is what makes him easily project as a top-six forward. That's just my opinion from watching him play for two years.

Becareful when you compared apples to oranges with the defensemen, Abeltshauser and DeMelo to Doherty. The first two are playing in junior but their numbers and games aren't even yet close to Doherty's when he was at the same level. He's now playing pro-level so we have to really wait to see how Abeltshauser's and DeMelo's games translate to that the pro-level in order compared all of the players projections. They both could be better in the end if Doherty can't improve his game and skating. You are very right, he is a longer term project and a huge "If" because of his size. Abeltshauser is tall and lanky but so much lighter than Doherty so he is a faster skater but could lose some of that speed as he gains weight and strength. DeMelo needs to show more offensive upside this season to move past the other two players.

Tierney has offensive upside, yes but not if his defensive game suffers because he was getting limited playing time being just offensive so he readapted his game last season. I just don't see him as a top-six forward at this time but more likely top-nine with the abilities to help in injury situations on the team's top-six. He's has a couple of years of junior to improve his offensive game and become more of a offensive two-way center. That's why the some prospects more up on the Top 20 list while other move down.

For O'Regan and Ryan, I can see what you are talking about with their potential skills but it's the size issue to play at the pro-level and the need to see more improvement from Ryan this year while O'Regan is going to play at the NCAA level with older and bigger players so that's why I kept them off the Top 20 list. These two players need to be much heavier and strong to play at the pro-level. The other three have the size and games to get to the next level. I have seen more of Mashinter, Ferriero and a lot more of Lalancette in the QJMHL so I am more up on their games. The difference at this time between all these players is close. Things will change again as we see how they all perform this season. Like I said in the Top 20 thread where I posted my comment on all the Sharks ranking and ratings of the prospects, I believe that you will see both O'Regan and Ryan on the next Top 20 list if they have good season.

The goalies from Europe who come over and immediately play well are consider to have starter potential and rated 7.0C and up. Sateri struggled to adjust at first then picked it up in the second half of the year. At this time, he hasn't shown me that his overall game is that of a starter but it also doesn't mean that he won't improve into one. Sateri has the smarts, calm demeanor and work ethic to become the Sharks future starting goaltender but I not sure yet that he can be more than a good backup. If he puts together a good season then it's possible you are right. We will see! That's the fun of watch prospects and seeing if they will succeed at getting to the NHL.

These are all my opinions based on what I have seen not what I have read. I have 35+ years of playing, coaching and refereeing at elite level hockey in Canada so I want to see the prospects for myself not what others have written or just their stats. That's how I decide my ratings and rankings.

Thanks for the opinions, comments and reading my article.

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09-07-2012, 02:59 PM
  #100
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Thank you.

Becareful when you compared apples to oranges with the defensemen, Abeltshauser and DeMelo to Doherty. The first two are playing in junior but their numbers and games aren't even yet close to Doherty's when he was at the same level. He's now playing pro-level so we have to really wait to see how Abeltshauser's and DeMelo's games translate to that the pro-level in order compared all of the players projections. They both could be better in the end if Doherty can't improve his game and skating. You are very right, he is a longer term project and a huge "If" because of his size. Abeltshauser is tall and lanky but so much lighter than Doherty so he is a faster skater but could lose some of that speed as he gains weight and strength. DeMelo needs to show more offensive upside this season to move past the other two players.

The goalies from Europe who come over and immediately play well are consider to have starter potential and rated 7.0C and up. Sateri struggled to adjust at first then picked it up in the second half of the year. At this time, he hasn't shown me that his overall game is that of a starter but it also doesn't mean that he won't improve into one. Sateri has the smarts, calm demeanor and work ethic to become the Sharks future starting goaltender but I not sure yet that he can be more than a good backup. If he puts together a good season then it's possible you are right. We will see! That's the fun of watch prospects and seeing if they will succeed at getting to the NHL.

These are all my opinions based on what I have seen not what I have read. I have 35+ years of playing, coaching and refereeing at elite level hockey in Canada so I want to see the prospects for myself not what others have written or just their stats. That's how I decide my ratings and rankings.

Thanks for the opinions, comments and reading my article.
I didn't compare KA, DeMelo and Doherty to each other - at all. They are three incredibly different d-men. I simply said I think KA and DeMelo both have a better chance of reaching their upside.

It's good to know how HF ranks goalies - I don't agree with it at all, but at least I know your reasoning.

As I said originally, your write up is a huge improvement over what HF used to send out on Sharks prospects.

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