HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Islanders
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-05-2012, 01:33 PM
  #201
Homeland Security
Mod Supervisor
HFBoards
 
Homeland Security's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY/FL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
to be fair tho, if, lets use someone not close to us, like phoenix, gets revenue sharing, if they are losing money, shouldnt they be able to use that money to try to break even? Theres no point in a team losing ten mil a season to get ten mil but be mandated to spend it back on the team, thus STILL losing ten mil a season.



btw, you're thinking of both florida AND tampa in the mlb. recently tampa has been doing better but florida used to get something like 40mil and keep their payroll in the low-mid 20's. now THAT is ********.
In a sense you're right, but you know Wang will continue to spend to the floor and pocket revenue sharing money he would get. To me thats not right. The league is giving you that money to reinvest in the team. IF the Isles headed to a path of consistent winning and playoff appearances and hell even a Stanley Cup, Wang would make money.

__________________
Homeland Security is online now  
Old
09-05-2012, 01:55 PM
  #202
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
In a sense you're right, but you know Wang will continue to spend to the floor and pocket revenue sharing money he would get. To me thats not right. The league is giving you that money to reinvest in the team. IF the Isles headed to a path of consistent winning and playoff appearances and hell even a Stanley Cup, Wang would make money.
THIS.

If you invest in the product and put out the best, most appealing item for fans, THEY SPEND MONEY. You hire the best talent to make it happen. You get the best talent on the ice, in the front office and put the best quality as the expectation.

That's how Detroit went from 2,000 fans a night to sell outs for over a decade. (they don't sell out now, after the economy and what I believe to be Babcock's mark on players leaving and free agents no longer desiring to sign there)

What happens to Wang's $4M loss two years ago if we got solid defense and scoring instead of diving into the dumpsters? $4M turns to even, plus any playoff revenue.....there is still time, but I'm not counting on things changing if the owner does not want to spend t make money. And we are NOT talking about going to the cap ceiling, just wiser hires making better trades and signings.

It's true in all business. Spend wiser, not more, not less, but wiser.

OlTimeHockey is offline  
Old
09-06-2012, 10:05 PM
  #203
BelovedIsles
Registered User
 
BelovedIsles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In Your head [;
Country: United States
Posts: 10,010
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BelovedIsles
The combined effect of a possible lockout AND the sad state of this franchise doesn't have me all that excited about hockey this year....sigh...

BelovedIsles is offline  
Old
09-06-2012, 11:28 PM
  #204
Seph
Registered User
 
Seph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oregon
Country: South Korea
Posts: 15,813
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Seph
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
In a sense you're right, but you know Wang will continue to spend to the floor and pocket revenue sharing money he would get. To me thats not right. The league is giving you that money to reinvest in the team. IF the Isles headed to a path of consistent winning and playoff appearances and hell even a Stanley Cup, Wang would make money.
That would be easy enough to prevent simply changing the cap floor rules. For example, not allowing buyout money to count towards the floor, and making the gap between the floor and the ceiling smaller. I would also prefer to see cap hits calculated as actual salary paid, rather than how it is calculated now, but I highly doubt we see that.

Seph is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 02:03 AM
  #205
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,963
vCash: 500
I kinda like the floor and ceiling gap wide. It doesn't punish success as much. The Pens ran the floor and now the ceiling due to years of building (sucking, tanking and a rigged draft). The Isles should have a low dollar cap floor like now but room for the maturation of players into gems (under our astute coaching and management).

OlTimeHockey is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 07:33 AM
  #206
rikker
fan since '75.
 
rikker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
I kinda like the floor and ceiling gap wide. It doesn't punish success as much. The Pens ran the floor and now the ceiling due to years of building (sucking, tanking and a rigged draft). The Isles should have a low dollar cap floor like now but room for the maturation of players into gems (under our astute coaching and management).
i agree...



i understand the whole concept of 'nudging' teams to be competitive, but i think it's best that they widen the gap between the lower and upper. and then let the chips fall where they may. if an organization ices a low-cap team, and the fans still support them (with $), then the fans deserve what they get. it would affect salaries less. the rich could spend more, the cheapos could spend less. and more importantly, we would be able to watch hockey!

get it done guys.

rikker is online now  
Old
09-07-2012, 09:14 AM
  #207
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,366
vCash: 1300
We had a $16m gap, between last season's floor and ceiling. That's fine. I have no complaint with a $16m gap. Let deep pocketed teams spend to the ceiling. It's a bonus for their fans and players.

My concern is when we start talking about selling cap space and having a luxury tax. I don't want either in the new cba.

I don't want a return to the days when the isles were spending about $30m and their competitors were spending more then twice that. I'm counting on the owners greed to drive a hard bargain.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #208
CDirt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
If there's a lockout I might not come back to the game. I've been following this teaqm since I was 6 yrs old (I'm now 38). Enough is enough. This will be the third loxckout since 94/95. Not to mention the last one cost us a whole season.

Things tend to get flipped about rules wise and contract rules get flopped about about. It's rough when following a team that's constantly building and has to consistnently change their approach because of this.

I'l be pretty done if there's a lockout. Just can't do it anymore. Besides, I tend to find more productve things to do with the extra time each week.

CDirt is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #209
JKP
Registered User
 
JKP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDirt View Post
If there's a lockout I might not come back to the game. I've been following this teaqm since I was 6 yrs old (I'm now 38). Enough is enough. This will be the third loxckout since 94/95. Not to mention the last one cost us a whole season.

Things tend to get flipped about rules wise and contract rules get flopped about about. It's rough when following a team that's constantly building and has to consistnently change their approach because of this.

I'l be pretty done if there's a lockout. Just can't do it anymore. Besides, I tend to find more productve things to do with the extra time each week.
I'm not necessarily directing this to you, but more to this sentiment that you're expressing that many others express as well. For the most part, the fans always come back.

That's why the power has shifted to the league's over the players. They know you'll be back. Maybe not this year or next, but they know sooner or later you'll be back.

The pro sports owners know their marketing machines are too good now and mass media to prevalent. Sports is one of the few good programming options left for advertisers on tv (because it's live and not bit-torrented), so they'll be back too.

It's one of the frustrating things about this. They know we'll be back. They have no fear in killing a season again, because we came back and they grew their biz by 50%.

Hopefully it doesn't come to this and the PA realizes they can't win and cave. They need to get paid because their earning potential is very finite. The owners can afford to take a year off if it means they push the player cost back even more.

But rest assured, the owners know we'll all come back. And we'll be salivating for it from withdrawal. Sad but true.

JKP is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 03:34 PM
  #210
PWJunior
SUCK IT HATERS!
 
PWJunior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKP View Post
I'm not necessarily directing this to you, but more to this sentiment that you're expressing that many others express as well. For the most part, the fans always come back.

That's why the power has shifted to the league's over the players. They know you'll be back. Maybe not this year or next, but they know sooner or later you'll be back.

The pro sports owners know their marketing machines are too good now and mass media to prevalent. Sports is one of the few good programming options left for advertisers on tv (because it's live and not bit-torrented), so they'll be back too.

It's one of the frustrating things about this. They know we'll be back. They have no fear in killing a season again, because we came back and they grew their biz by 50%.

Hopefully it doesn't come to this and the PA realizes they can't win and cave. They need to get paid because their earning potential is very finite. The owners can afford to take a year off if it means they push the player cost back even more.

But rest assured, the owners know we'll all come back. And we'll be salivating for it from withdrawal. Sad but true.
Well stated and I have to agree with you.

We're also Isles fans, think about all the crap that we've had to endure for the last 20 years or so. Then add even more crap on top of that. I know I'll be devastated if the season is lost, but if I haven't thrown in the towel by now... I never will.

PWJunior is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 05:34 PM
  #211
JKP
Registered User
 
JKP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,725
vCash: 500
Yeah, I don't think they'll kill a season. The players have to know this hurts them waaaay more than the owners. They'll bluff as much as they can and maybe sacrifice one paycheck, but they're the losers in this fight.

The stars who make their millions will be fine and resist, but not the ~40% of the league making the minimum up to a million a year (57% made $2M or less last year).

Those guys will only have a few short years to bank cash to get them a decent nest egg. They lose a year and it's huge. It's those guys that will push the union to cave.

Be interesting how eager those guys are to give up a year for the superstars again...

JKP is offline  
Old
09-07-2012, 06:24 PM
  #212
Homeland Security
Mod Supervisor
HFBoards
 
Homeland Security's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY/FL
Country: United States
Posts: 15,816
vCash: 500
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ator-1.3858751


I don't know if this was posted. But figured I would post it.

Homeland Security is online now  
Old
09-12-2012, 12:23 PM
  #213
Mr Wentworth
Arch Duke of Raleigh
 
Mr Wentworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,429
vCash: 500
Shoot me now:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...8993--nhl.html

Mr Wentworth is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 01:22 PM
  #214
Strummergas
Registered User
 
Strummergas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,722
vCash: 500
well, I was just looking for an excuse to cancel cable. Here it is!

Strummergas is offline  
Old
09-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #215
MattMartin
KillerInstinct™
 
MattMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 5,449
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to MattMartin
You were my winter companion, my spring best friend, and now you gone. Oh the days of winter are so long but you made them worth standing. The nights so bitterly cold but warmed them up with your explosive speed, the unbelievable saves, the crash against the boards, the friendly way you settled a dispute with two men meeting for some harmless horseplay when the gloves come off. But greed killed you off and you’ll never be back. Why did it have to end this way, you could have made it work but we one thing for sure it was fun while it lasted. Good bye my dear friend rest in peace. Obituary of the National Hockey League. 1885-2012

__________________
GO BUFFALO
MattMartin is offline  
Old
09-13-2012, 07:37 PM
  #216
scott99
Registered User
 
scott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,057
vCash: 500
I saw 2 transactions today that pretty much tell me their will be no last minute deal to start the season on time. The Florida Panthers assigned Jonathon Huberdeau to Saint John in the Q, and Columbus assigned Ryan Murray to Everett in the WHL. I believe if you assign draftees to their Junior teams, you can't recall them. The consensus was, Murray was the most NHL ready of the 2012 first round picks.

scott99 is offline  
Old
09-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #217
JKP
Registered User
 
JKP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post
This guy was on Bob McCowan's show today and when he was asked about the 18 months quote, he said it was taken out of context. He said he's advising his players, based on the last lockout taking out a year, to prepare financially for 18 months as a worst case so that they won't need to worry about their money.

He said he does not expect it to be an 18m lockout, just that his clients should be financially prepared for the worst-case scenario.

JKP is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 11:12 AM
  #218
Crashsunday
Registered User
 
Crashsunday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
In this day and age, would somebody tell me why a player's union is even necessary. In what way, really, are any of the players being "taken advantage of". There was a time for unions, but that time is over.

I am 100% against the players who think that they are being treated poorly. Every perk, every trainer who tapes up their ankle or stretches them out between periods, every flight, every assistant who carries their bag for them or washes their uniform, every $10,000 per game played (at minimum) is better treatment than most everyone in the world will ever see. Cry me a river and then get back to work. It's the owners' league. Get used to it. Those who float the cash, get paid. Those who serve, don't (not as much anyway). You're an employee, if you don't like how your present employer is treating you, go find another job like everyone else or start your own business and take a risk. There's plenty of leagues out there.

Crashsunday is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 02:36 PM
  #219
Fantom
Registered User
 
Fantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsunday View Post
In this day and age, would somebody tell me why a player's union is even necessary. In what way, really, are any of the players being "taken advantage of". There was a time for unions, but that time is over.

I am 100% against the players who think that they are being treated poorly. Every perk, every trainer who tapes up their ankle or stretches them out between periods, every flight, every assistant who carries their bag for them or washes their uniform, every $10,000 per game played (at minimum) is better treatment than most everyone in the world will ever see. Cry me a river and then get back to work. It's the owners' league. Get used to it. Those who float the cash, get paid. Those who serve, don't (not as much anyway). You're an employee, if you don't like how your present employer is treating you, go find another job like everyone else or start your own business and take a risk. There's plenty of leagues out there.
The only issue i have with the what the owners proposed was rollback on current contracts. That if you ask me is completely unfair.

Fantom is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #220
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
The only issue i have with the what the owners proposed was rollback on current contracts. That if you ask me is completely unfair.
Yep. The idiots who spent all that money should be held to their actions. There should have been a cap roll back but they just kept pushing the cap limits up. The only way to reign in spending is to make the spenders FEEL IT. If they adjust the cap, teams like NYR, Chicago and so on should FEEL IT.

Let the players keep their contracts and the drunken sailer spenders feel the repercussions. (but to be fair, I say this as a fan that spends $20M BELOW the cap floor minimum)

OlTimeHockey is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 03:24 PM
  #221
original islander
Registered User
 
original islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Yep. The idiots who spent all that money should be held to their actions. There should have been a cap roll back but they just kept pushing the cap limits up. The only way to reign in spending is to make the spenders FEEL IT. If they adjust the cap, teams like NYR, Chicago and so on should FEEL IT.

Let the players keep their contracts and the drunken sailer spenders feel the repercussions. (but to be fair, I say this as a fan that spends $20M BELOW the cap floor minimum)
Agree 100%. The owners are looking to change the status quo because of their overspending and should be held to be responsible for existing contracts. In a weird way Charles may drive me crazy at times but since the DiPietro contract he has been the one owner who is fiscally responsible (or cheap).

original islander is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #222
OlTimeHockey
Registered User
 
OlTimeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: home
Country: China
Posts: 15,963
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by original islander View Post
Agree 100%. The owners are looking to change the status quo because of their overspending and should be held to be responsible for existing contracts. In a weird way Charles may drive me crazy at times but since the DiPietro contract he has been the one owner who is fiscally responsible (or cheap).
Careful....defining it like that makes Milstein sound like the most fiscally responsible owner of all time.

Toronto wants the cap high. Detroit has no choice with their talent. Chicago was a big exercise in stupidity. A few teams pushed to get the big name and helped. MEANWHILE....the poorer teams spent as they had to, so the cap was a good idea, but....the league, and several high dollar market teams caused this mess. The players could have made good money and fans not gotten squeezed for higher tickets if not for a few teams that jacked prices - and thus league revenues - up.

So we, the fans, are screwed. What the top revenue teams did caused a mess for the rest. The players benefited, sure, and the game with the same players did not. It just costs more.

I place the blame for this on Toronto first and foremost. Just look at how much they escalated ticket prices on their fans. As a fan of semi-pure capitalism, I can't fault them, but.....as the league is a homogeneous unit which needs 30 successful entities within it to prosper, a few put great hurt on the many.

And thus, the fans.

So no hockey.

OlTimeHockey is offline  
Old
09-15-2012, 06:17 PM
  #223
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,366
vCash: 1300
Lambert gets some good jabs in at the owners.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3
Trending Topics: Won’t someone please think of the owners?
By Ryan Lambert

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-16-2012, 09:54 AM
  #224
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 29,366
vCash: 1300
A message from the team to the fans..Isles ought to delete that final paragraph.
We haven't seen around the clock negoiations.



http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=641501
A Message to our Fans and Partners
Sunday, 09.16.2012 / 9:01 AM / News
New York Islanders

Despite the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the National Hockey League has been, and remains, committed to negotiating around the clock to reach a new CBA that is fair to the Players and to the 30 NHL teams.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-16-2012, 10:20 AM
  #225
LongIslandCircus
Registered User
 
LongIslandCircus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
A message from the team to the fans..Isles ought to delete that final paragraph.
We haven't seen around the clock negoiations.



http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=641501
A Message to our Fans and Partners
Sunday, 09.16.2012 / 9:01 AM / News
New York Islanders

Despite the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the National Hockey League has been, and remains, committed to negotiating around the clock to reach a new CBA that is fair to the Players and to the 30 NHL teams.
False and misleading assurance that the season will get under way as scheduled. Probably an attempt to defer any refunds for season tickets/sponsorships/advertising fees.

LongIslandCircus is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.