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Ottawa Extends Zack Smith [4 Years, $1,887,500/year]

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Old
09-05-2012, 11:17 PM
  #51
SammyTheBull
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Great deal.

I really like Smith's game.

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Old
09-05-2012, 11:43 PM
  #52
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Good signing by the Sens.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:10 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
Zibanejad should be our 3rd, which places him as our 4th.
If he's our 4th then we really don't need to sign him to a four-year deal as that kind of talent IS replaceable from within.

It's a strange deal. Our team has a LOT of these tweeners and while you certainly do need a mix, not sure it should be at the expense of someone with genuine upside like Zibanejad or even (heaven forbid) DaCosta. We'll see though. I'm not angry about the deal but I do wonder what's going through Murray's head, what with all these prospects that have been lauded heavily now being stuck in Bingo (not a bad thing for seasoning) instead of challenging for spots.
It's unclear where or even if Zbad will place on the roster, so it's hard to argue that ZS' spot will instantly be overtaken. And if that did happen, like someone else said, he can and could play the wing. And Zbad would really only be on the third line to develop, he's not a grinder or a defensive forward. His game is offence-oriented even if he does have size. But I totally disagree on Smith being expendable. He's already been an adequate 3C at a fairly young age, very gritty guy, stands up for teammates, provides a lot of what you want out of a 3C.

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Old
09-06-2012, 12:33 AM
  #54
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Latendresse = 1yr @ $2M
Neil = 3yrs @ $1.9M
Turris = 5yrs @ $3.5M
Karlsson = 7yrs @ $6.5M
Smith = 4yrs @ 1.8M

...and the team is still under the salary floor

Fantastic summer by Murray. The future is looking bright.

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Old
09-06-2012, 07:45 AM
  #55
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4 years? Yikes. Cap hit is OK but 4 years for a guy like this is odd stuff. That used to be a long term deal, nowadays its the norm.

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Old
09-06-2012, 09:25 AM
  #56
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Smiths production us replaceable but that's why we don't sign based on stat lines.

Smith isn't being sign purely based on production although it's clear GMBM thinks his will go up, he's being signed for his somewhat possible production and everything else he brings to the table.

Good signing

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Old
09-06-2012, 09:44 AM
  #57
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I like it. I don't think its a steal, but totally fair.

He's a guy that as he gets older will become the type you want on your third line.

I actually am loving the rebuild for the sens and see a pretty exciting road ahead. With multiple deals that could be huge steals, while still giving the Sens the ability to sign bigger name players down the road if these deals don't work out.

Cannot complain! Love Smith and pretty sure he's a great guy to have around.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:01 AM
  #58
Cherith Cutestory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Of course there is more to the game than putting up points. That was not my point.

The days of actually earning a long term, big money contract are well behind us and for me personally that is disappointing. This young man is set for life after playing a successful half a season of hockey in the NHL.

I did not say it was a bad contract. I said that I don't think he deserves it, and in fact I feel the same way about the Turris extension as well.
But, the only point you've proven is that you're basing your opinion on a half-succesful season of points and completely disregarded the additional elements to the game Smith brings that the poster above you mentioned.

It's not all about points. Some of his $1.88 mil salary is going towards his PK skills, toughness and grit. I'll admit it's tought to break down a yearly salary based on all aspects of the game, but $1.88 mil seems perfectly reasonable for what he does.

But it's an opinion thing.

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:18 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherith Cutestory View Post
But, the only point you've proven is that you're basing your opinion on a half-succesful season of points and completely disregarded the additional elements to the game Smith brings that the poster above you mentioned.

It's not all about points. Some of his $1.88 mil salary is going towards his PK skills, toughness and grit. I'll admit it's tought to break down a yearly salary based on all aspects of the game, but $1.88 mil seems perfectly reasonable for what he does.

But it's an opinion thing.
The media keeps saying there will be salary roll back as well here with the new CBA the team1200 said yesterday expect 15%. Well that puts Smith around a 1.5 mil contract and a guy like Turris around 2.9-3 million.

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Old
09-06-2012, 11:54 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
They aren't comparable situations.

...

Kyle Turris
- put up a mid-level 2nd liner pace over 2/3's of the season (projected 5th forward)... while playing with Alfredsson, who at 59th in scoring was way better than any linemate we ever gave Fisher. In addition, he played with a rotation of guys like Foligno, Greening, Michalek... also typically better linemates than Fisher was saddled with. So the stats are kind of difficult to put full faith in because he may never play with an Alfredsson again and it was only over 2/3's of the season.
Mike Fisher

22 yrs (0.51 pts/g with Ottawa)
rest of career with Ottawa (0.52 pts/g)

signed for 5 yrs @ 4.2M when the cap was 50.2M (~8.4% of cap)

Kyle Turris

22 yrs (0.59 pts/g with Ottawa)

signed for 5 yrs @ 3.5M when the cap was 70.2M (~5.0% of cap)

Turris doesn't have do anything but maintain to live up to and surpass the "great" Mike Fisher.

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Old
09-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #61
Do Make Say Think
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
The media keeps saying there will be salary roll back as well here with the new CBA the team1200 said yesterday expect 15%. Well that puts Smith around a 1.5 mil contract and a guy like Turris around 2.9-3 million.
Anybody telling you there is going to be a rollback is full of it.

Hopefully there is one but it's far from certain right now: the PA has refused to negotiate with the NHL so far.

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Old
09-06-2012, 05:46 PM
  #62
BK201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
Anybody telling you there is going to be a rollback is full of it.

Hopefully there is one but it's far from certain right now: the PA has refused to negotiate with the NHL so far.
Actually both sides are not really going hard.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:19 PM
  #63
HighLifeMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherith Cutestory View Post
But, the only point you've proven is that you're basing your opinion on a half-succesful season of points and completely disregarded the additional elements to the game Smith brings that the poster above you mentioned.

It's not all about points. Some of his $1.88 mil salary is going towards his PK skills, toughness and grit. I'll admit it's tought to break down a yearly salary based on all aspects of the game, but $1.88 mil seems perfectly reasonable for what he does.

But it's an opinion thing.
Look throughout the thread. Senator fans themselves have repeatedly mentioned that he struggled in the second half of the season. I am not the only one saying this. If he is not producing as a top nine forward, he is simply not as valuable as you are making him out to be.

Yes 1.88M in today's game seems reasonable, I never debated that. He simply has not done enough "in my opinion" to justify earning a four year contract, let alone worth 7.5M bucks.

I was more venting my opinions on the idea that these deals are now a norm in the game today, as opposed to the signing itself.

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #64
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Gotta lock up those bottom-sixers.

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:19 AM
  #65
umma gumma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Look throughout the thread. Senator fans themselves have repeatedly mentioned that he struggled in the second half of the season. I am not the only one saying this. If he is not producing as a top nine forward, he is simply not as valuable as you are making him out to be.
He struggled after suffering a head injury and you could tell he wasn't the same player. He only missed one game so perhaps he came back too soon?

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Gotta lock up those bottom-sixers.
Actually what they've done is locked down the center ice position from lines 1 through 4.

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:23 AM
  #66
umma gumma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post

Kyle Turris
- put up a mid-level 2nd liner pace over 2/3's of the season (projected 5th forward)... while playing with Alfredsson, who at 59th in scoring was way better than any linemate we ever gave Fisher.
Fisher played plenty with Alfredsson who at 34/35 was a better player then he is at 39.

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Old
09-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
Actually what they've done is locked down the center ice position from lines 1 through 4.
Yeah, because Murray would have been hard pressed to find a 4th liner through FA.

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Old
09-07-2012, 11:54 AM
  #68
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It's a bit long in the term, but he does have a physical skillset that isn't really possessed by the rest of our forward prospects.

So he's not as easily replaceable as everyone believes, IMO.

Murray obviously sees him as the next Chris Neil of sorts, who is getting a bit long in the tooth.

If only he could fight like Neil.

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Old
09-07-2012, 12:07 PM
  #69
umma gumma
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Yeah, because Murray would have been hard pressed to find a 4th liner through FA.
Smith doesn't play on our 4th line.

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:46 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
Smith doesn't play on our 4th line.
maybe, maybe not. Really depends on what the stache wants to do with regin.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:28 PM
  #71
umma gumma
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
maybe, maybe not. Really depends on what the stache wants to do with regin.
Unfortuanetly for Regin he starts from scratch; Smith has already shown the coach what he can do, so the 3rd line C is his to lose. I'm convinced Regin will be moved to the wing.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:35 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Yeah, because Murray would have been hard pressed to find a 4th liner through FA.
That's not at all the point here. Yes, we could go out and get some old 4th liner whose better days are behind him, or we could extend a young player whose been through the ranks, won a championship for the organization, is a hard worker and a solid 3rd line player.

Buying players through free agency is a last resort IMO, you try to build a team from within.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:39 PM
  #73
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Yeah, because Murray would have been hard pressed to find a 4th liner through FA.
He just turned 24yo and put up higher end 3rd line numbers (14goals, 26 points) this year; his 1st full season in the league. He was 8th in ice time among forwards on the team.

Jesse Winchester is 28 and his career high is 18 points.
Zenon Konopka is 31 and his career high is 9 points.
Those guys are 4th liners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
Fisher played plenty with Alfredsson who at 34/35 was a better player then he is at 39.
Oh, what year was that? ... Never?

A couple of shifts and smattering of games here and there didn't make Alfredsson a linemate of Fisher's in any given season such that it ever could have affected his production ---> because they didn't play together enough.

These were Turris's RW's this year:
Alfredsson = 93.4%
B. Butler = 6.6%

Fisher never played with Alfredsson to anywhere near that extent. My best guess is that most of his seasons as the second line center look something like:
90% = Neil/Eaves/Shannon
10% = Alfredsson

With the exception of much of 1.5 seasons with Kovalev & half of a season with Comrie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by We Want the Cup 2010 View Post
Mike Fisher

22 yrs (0.51 pts/g with Ottawa)
rest of career with Ottawa (0.52 pts/g)

signed for 5 yrs @ 4.2M when the cap was 50.2M (~8.4% of cap)

Kyle Turris

22 yrs (0.59 pts/g with Ottawa)

signed for 5 yrs @ 3.5M when the cap was 70.2M (~5.0% of cap)

Turris doesn't have do anything but maintain to live up to and surpass the "great" Mike Fisher.

How to lie with statistics: 101

Mike Fisher became Ottawa's 2nd line center at 25yo, not 22yo.
From then on, he put up full seasons of:
0.65
0.71
0.59

0.41*
0.67

* Hartsburg tanked the #1 offense from the previous season down to 29th with amateurish breakout strategy before getting ****canned 48 games into the year. Everybody's offense suffered.

He put up those numbers playing with:
LW = Schaefer (2 seasons) or Foligno ( bits & pieces of 3 seasons)
RW = Kovalev (1 season), Comrie (0.5 seasons), Neil/Eaves/Shannon (~ the rest)

---------------------------------

Turris just put up a 0.53 pace with:
RW = Alfredsson
LW = Foligno (33.7%), Greening (21.4%), Michalek (7.1%)... 2/3rds of his season

The highest ranked players Fisher ever played an entire season with:
2009-10 = Kovalev = 98th in scoring
2005-06 = Schaefer = 115th in scoring

Turris, 2011-12 alone:
2011-12 = Alfie = 59th in scoring
2011-12 = Foligno = 110th in scoring

Now, obviously he didn't play with Foligno the entire year... so that comparison is somewhat disingenuous as well. But let me show you something about Greening's 37 points.

In the 5 full seasons that Fisher was the 2nd line center, 37 points was eclipsed only 7 times by players other than Alfie, Spezza, Heatley & Fisher.

- So that's the CASH line members who Fisher didn't play with.
- Vermette x 2 and Kelly x 1... who Fisher didn't play with.
- Schaefer x 2 and Kovalev x 1... Fisher's linemates in those seasons.
- Bryan Smolinski x 1... I honestly can't remember who he played with.

So 3 full season linemates out of 10 possible over 5 full seasons eclipsed 37 points.

And I shouldn't be skeptical of Turris's small sample size with a 27 goal scorer? ... Everything will just work out smashingly once he's expected to carry a 21yo Nick Foligno & Ryan Shannon?

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Old
09-07-2012, 04:02 PM
  #74
SenzZen
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I like it.

Pretty sure he was playing hurt for the 2nd half of last season.

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Old
09-07-2012, 05:33 PM
  #75
umma gumma
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Oh, what year was that? ... Never?
In 06/07 Alfie figured in on 40% of Fisher's ES points. That's not including any EN points either.

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