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Edmonton - Phoenix

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:44 PM
  #26
rt
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I could see EDM scoring three goals a game next season, putting them in the top five. Then again, I could see them giving up three goals a game, putting them in the bottom five. That kind of a season generally gets you the tenth pick in the draft, give or take two spots. Sort of like Tampa last season.

There will be some great forwards sitting there in that range. Rychel, Domi, Duclair, Erne, Lazar, etc. could still be on the board.

Still, the only proven asset is Gagner, who as much ad I like him, is a B asset. Yandle is an A asset. If Phoenix moves Yandle for help up front they better get a PROVEN A asset in return.

So while the value works, I don't think it's a great fit for Phoenix.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:10 PM
  #27
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a draft pick does not help them next season, unless if the lockout will be a whole year - so it would be a gamble to where the pick will be. I predict that the Coyotes will be in a win now mode for the season, if they can avoid the lockout. I also predict the CBA will be very favorable to the Coyotes and they will pick up a player or 2 for relatively cheap. Yandle is too valuable to the Coyotes, they may trade Schlemko for Gagner though...

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:12 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
How bout no?

Too much from Edmonton's side, and with the details of the CBA up in the air Yandle's cap hit is something the Oilers do not need.
Lol, the fact that you think Phoenix considers this is hilarious.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:21 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
To Edmonton
Keith Yandle


To Phoenix
MPS
Sam Gagner
2013 1st
The fatal flaw in this proposal is that the Coyotes are in a win-now mode. Moving Yandle for a former top-10 pick who hasn't cracked 50 points in any of his 5 full NHL seasons; a top prospect; and a 1st doesn't get the Coyotes closer to winning "now."

If the Yotes were rebuilding, then I might look at this proposal differently. But as of today, PHX would wait to hear the names Hall or Eberle before talking deal with EDM for Yandle. Make that two fatal flaws.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
a legitimate #1 or #2 defenseman is something the oilers desperatley need unless they are content with consistently finishing in the bottom of the standings.

mind you i dont think yandle is the type of dman needed in edmonton... they need a marc staal type
Desperate?

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:24 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ManByng View Post
i'd like to get Yandle here for sure, but MPS, Gagner and a 1st rounder is too much to pay.
That is my opinion as well

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
Desperate?
Only if they want to win games. If they'd rather sit back and get Jones then no it's not a desperate need

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Edmonton can't take on all that salary and they need Gagner so that Horcoff doesn't end up playing 2C.
This is the only post from an Oiler fan that has made sense so far in this thread.

Yandle is an amazing talent and if MPS + Gagner + 2013 1st round pick are what's being asked for in exchange for Yandle, Edmonton would be stupid not to pull the trigger.

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:33 PM
  #34
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Gagner, and even Yandle to some extent, are being badly undervalued. As someone who watches most games of both teams, Gagner would instantly be Phoenix's #1 C and Yandle would be the Oilers #1 D. The price in the original deal is definitively too steep for Yandle, but he won't come cheap by any means

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Old
09-07-2012, 03:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
Only if they want to win games. If they'd rather sit back and get Jones then no it's not a desperate need
You assume Yandle is good enough to have the Oilers make the playoffs? Otherwise they lose the trade.

Horcoff becomes a top 6 player ick. Belanger becomes a 3rd line center ick. Virtually not a single left wing prospect after trading MPS ick. Lander or Vandevelde get forced up early and thrown on the 4th line ick.

There is alot of ick in that scenario. Posters like you always throw in that condescending tone of "if" they want to get better when clearly every fan wants the team to get better.

Since deadline of 2010 we have been watching this rebuild, why lose patience right now? Id like Yandle but not at the price of creating big holes on the team. Plus with how CBA negotiations are going the cap may go down, if so there might be alot of waiver fodder. It worked picking up Ryan Jones for the 3rd line


Last edited by Jamin: 09-07-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 04:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by v3rs3 View Post
Neither of those teams had a choice other than to move those players. Nash requested a trade and Staal was going to leave as an UFA. Apples to oranges, Phoenix doesn't have to move Yandle.

If this propels Edmonton into the 7-10th place in the west it's a fair deal. If they end up at the bottom once again they lose pretty hard. Maybe a conditional 1st from Phoenix if Edmonton finishes in the lottery.
i could be wrong and correct me if i am, but Columbus didn't have to trade Nash, request or not, and the Pens may have lost Staal as a UFA, but again, if i'm not mistaken, they didn't have to trade him either. this is why the Oil may still be looking for a top d-man, but likely aren't going to get him...the price will be too high and the Oil simply won't pay it.

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Old
09-07-2012, 04:59 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Gagner, and even Yandle to some extent, are being badly undervalued. As someone who watches most games of both teams, Gagner would instantly be Phoenix's #1 C and Yandle would be the Oilers #1 D. The price in the original deal is definitively too steep for Yandle, but he won't come cheap by any means
We don't have a #1 C. Hanzal is better than Gagner and he's technically not even our #1 C. If Gagner fills that roll, then we need a lot of help down the middle.

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Old
09-07-2012, 05:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
Lol, the fact that you think Phoenix considers this is hilarious.
I find the lack of me mentioning anything about Phoenix in my post to be mildly amusing.

If you continue reading you will find my reasons for thinking this trade was a bad idea for the Oilers in a post not long after my initial response.

Have yourself a fine day.

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:45 PM
  #39
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I've wanted Tambellini to add someone to our defense all summer long. But as much as it pains me to say this, I don't think the time is right for this kind of deal.

Looking at the three players / assets from the Oil side:
- In order to trade Gagner you need to make sure you can fill the 2C roll. Others have mentioned Horcoff but I don't think he would get a sniff of that spot. You would have to be sure that Hall could fill it. But at this point, he hasn't played a game of center in the NHL. Maybe if he had played a month or two last year, you would know if he could handle playing the middle. But right now - no idea. Trading Gagner would be a pretty risky move. Maybe at the deadline if Hall moves to C.

- I might be in the minority among Oiler fans that don't want to trade MPS. I see him potentially filling in the 3rd line really well. People can argue all day long about drafting a third liner in the 10 spot, but if you look at our top two lines, a good third liner is exactly what we need. I think he could pot you 15 goals a season and keep the puck moving in the right direction. He is defensively quite aware for a young player. That's a pretty valuable piece for us IMO. I might even consider moving a D prospect before moving MPS if possible.

- the first as has been mentioned - just too early given our history to trade it.

I don't have time to watch other teams much so I am not going to comment on the deal from the Yotes side of things. But that's how I see it from Edmonton. Don't think it is worth the risk as I think we need one more year before doing this kind of deal. I don't think removing Gagner & MPS and adding Yandle gets us to the playoffs. If it did, I would reconsider.

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Old
09-07-2012, 09:32 PM
  #40
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I'm a Canucks fan and I think the Oilers need to start making deals like this. They have a young core in Schultz, Yakupov, Hall, RNH, and Eberle. It's time to start bringing in talented veterans on the right side of 30. Yandle fits a need big time, and while Gagner isn't exactly expendable, MPS certainly is. I know this leaves Edmonton without a legit #2C but they gain a top pairing defenseman, they can get by without Gagner.

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Old
09-07-2012, 09:35 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
I find the lack of me mentioning anything about Phoenix in my post to be mildly amusing.

If you continue reading you will find my reasons for thinking this trade was a bad idea for the Oilers in a post not long after my initial response.

Have yourself a fine day.
you said it's "too much" from Edmonton's side and covered your traces with CBA talk.

Say again?

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Old
09-07-2012, 09:56 PM
  #42
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Not enough upside coming to Phoenix. Coyotes would pass.

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:04 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I'm a Canucks fan and I think the Oilers need to start making deals like this. They have a young core in Schultz, Yakupov, Hall, RNH, and Eberle. It's time to start bringing in talented veterans on the right side of 30. Yandle fits a need big time, and while Gagner isn't exactly expendable, MPS certainly is. I know this leaves Edmonton without a legit #2C but they gain a top pairing defenseman, they can get by without Gagner.
Yandle is 26, not exactly the right side of 30...

Edit: Unless you meant the good side of 30, then my bad. (Blame my first language!)

Risky trade from Edmonton, but might be worth doing if they can get a 2nd center in another trade (for some prospects/picks, I guess). If they get Yandle and compensate/upgrade on Gagner, they are absolutely in the playoff race this year and may be contenders really soon if Hall, RNH, Yakupov and some D prospects pan out (Hall need to stop getting injured...).


Last edited by Treb: 09-07-2012 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Precision
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Old
09-07-2012, 10:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Yandle is 26, not exactly the right side of 30...

Edit: Unless you meant the good side of 30, then my bad. (Blame my first language!)

Risky trade from Edmonton, but might be worth doing if they
can get a 2nd center in another trade (for some prospects/picks, I guess). If they get Yandle and compensate/upgrade on Gagner, they are absolutely in the playoff race this year and may be contenders really soon if Hall, RNH, Yakupov and some D prospects pan out (Hall need to stop getting injured...).
Ya, I meant on the young side of 30.

Anyways, yes it's a risk, but it's a risk worth taking if you ask me. It'd be better if they could include their 2014 1st instead, but I doubt PHX goes for it.

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
We don't have a #1 C. Hanzal is better than Gagner and he's technically not even our #1 C. If Gagner fills that roll, then we need a lot of help down the middle.
I consider Vermette better too! and then the Coyotes have Gordon (and Gagner is far from playing the roll that Gordon plays with the Coyotes). That's 3 out of 4. I'm sure the Coyotes can find a center to play on the 3rd line without giving up Yandle.

isn't this like the 3rd or 4th thread that has the Oilers trading Gagner for Yandle

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:00 AM
  #46
SilverHaireDevil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
you said it's "too much" from Edmonton's side and covered your traces with CBA talk.

Say again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
Didn't say Edmonton couldn't use a #1 defenseman, said we can't be taking on his cap hit without knowing the details of the next CBA.

This deal makes Ryan Smyth our 2nd line LW.

Shawn Horcoff our 2 C.

And gives away our first rounder in a pretty decent looking draft.

Those last 3 things are not something that interest me at all as an Oiler fan.
If you had continued to read the first page of this thread you might have stumbled across this post which came after the initial post you responded to.

The Oilers are still rebuilding regardless of what HF believes, no where in any of my posts do I make statements about what Phoenix thinks about this proposal or what Yandle is worth or anything negative about the Coyotes just that it isn't the right move for Edmonton.


Last edited by ColePens: 09-08-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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Old
09-08-2012, 12:08 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
You assume Yandle is good enough to have the Oilers make the playoffs? Otherwise they lose the trade.

Horcoff becomes a top 6 player ick. Belanger becomes a 3rd line center ick. Virtually not a single left wing prospect after trading MPS ick. Lander or Vandevelde get forced up early and thrown on the 4th line ick.

There is alot of ick in that scenario. Posters like you always throw in that condescending tone of "if" they want to get better when clearly every fan wants the team to get better.

Since deadline of 2010 we have been watching this rebuild, why lose patience right now? Id like Yandle but not at the price of creating big holes on the team. Plus with how CBA negotiations are going the cap may go down, if so there might be alot of waiver fodder. It worked picking up Ryan Jones for the 3rd line
I never claimed they'd make the playoffs this year with Yandle. I actually believe they shouldn't do this trade because the pick can very easily be a lottery pick. The Oilers depth would be diminished through the trade, and this would hurt their team defense more than Yandle would add to it. If the goal was to win games and compete for a low playoff spot over the past 2 years, they would have attempted to add strong defensive guys during the off season on short term deals and not traded Gilbert for Shultz. I don't think they'll be competing for a playoff spot this year either because they haven't improved their team defensively.

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