I'm getting pretty tired of everyone crapping on this team.
Maybe Harris had intangibles as a coach that are now missing, whether they be tactics or motivation?
PS. Just vilifying everyone involved with the Bombers, as is the theme on this board and fans in general, is pretty cheap and a cop-out as well. It's all pot-kettle-black, if you ask me.
Fans have every right to be mad and blame the organization. They've been losers since 1991! Maybe most fans are sick and tired of being the joke of the CFL. I barely remember the grey cup in 1990. I want this team to win. Not have Mr Joe Mack tell us that we're supposed to be a family. I'm sorry but no. One PR disaster after another. And blaming RH is a cop-out. Yeah they could have lost some intangeibles with him, but Mack made no effort whatsoever to replace that. He went far too young and an OC that didn't know the Canadian game. We need to go more Canadian and stop signing so many imports. This team will not win with this joke of management.
WOW I sure am glad I listened to the Jo Mack presser yesterday. Otherwise I might never have known the Bombers were such a great talent ladden team, brimming with future ALLSTARS. Clearly Joe you are the best GM of all time and the horrible record under your tennure, the lack of discipline, the lack of character, all of it, is someone else's fault.
in a "Joe Mack" Universe, If your engine isn't running right(the Bombers) you replace your finicky carberator(LaPo) with a perfectly good brake drum(Burke) and then express surprise when it doesn't work?
Wow Joe. You're amazed that the change in Coaching days before the biggest regular season game of the year, with a man who freely admits he's never run an offence, doesn't know how to do his new job, and has a junior,inexperienced staff under him, didn't produce results?!!!!?????!!!!!
I don't Blame Burke, he tried. Heck I even sort of kinda barely understand firing LaPo(not really tho), But WHAT IN GODS NAME WERE YOU THINKING DROPPING POOR MR. BURKE into a lose lose situation like that?? that is horrible GMing. Why in hell didn't you hire a proper head coach? If you had to fire LaPo(you didn't) why didn't you at least have a decent plan b to go to?
as the Operative in Serenity said
"In certain older... civilized cultures... it was customary for one who had failed as completely as you have to throw themselves on their swords."
Fans have every right to be mad and blame the organization. They've been losers since 1991! Maybe most fans are sick and tired of being the joke of the CFL. I barely remember the grey cup in 1990. I want this team to win. Not have Mr Joe Mack tell us that we're supposed to be a family. I'm sorry but no. One PR disaster after another. And blaming RH is a cop-out. Yeah they could have lost some intangeibles with him, but Mack made no effort whatsoever to replace that. He went far too young and an OC that didn't know the Canadian game. We need to go more Canadian and stop signing so many imports. This team will not win with this joke of management.
So, let me get this straight, Joe Mack was a joke last year when he took a 4-10 team and turned them into first place with a Grey Cup final?
Joe Mack was a joke when he helped build Grey Cup winning teams in the 80's?
I'm not really a CFL fan, I just can't get my head wrapped around this "Swaggerville" mentality if the Bombers win a few games, and crying bloody foul every time they lose a few. Are Hamilton's fans like this? Saskatchewan's?
So, let me get this straight, Joe Mack was a joke last year when he took a 4-10 team and turned them into first place with a Grey Cup final?
Joe Mack was a joke when he helped build Grey Cup winning teams in the 80's?
I'm not really a CFL fan, I just can't get my head wrapped around this "Swaggerville" mentality if the Bombers win a few games, and crying bloody foul every time they lose a few. Are Hamilton's fans like this? Saskatchewan's?
Joe Mack took a Mike Kelly team and made them EVEN WORSE, falling to 4-14. Talk all you want about how close games where, the fact is they went 4-14. Mack is getting so much credit for his 10-8 season, yet gets none of the blame of the 6-21 record he has managed to assemble in his other two seasons as GM.
We are always talking about the Bombers are young, they are on the upswing. Yet after the hot start of last season jumping out to a 7-1 start, the Bombers are 5-14 in regular season play and regressing. The team is going backwards under Mack, getting worse all the time.
It's not a few games he is losing. It is a lot of games, with no signs of improvement, in fact the team is getting worse all the time. If he gets so much credit for barely cracking .500, he deserves as much credit for the other 6-21 record he has put up. And yes, Hamilton's and Saskatchewan's fans expect them to win football games. It is the point of the sport, last I checked.
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2012 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS LA KINGS!!! GO JETS GO!
Joe Mack took a Mike Kelly team and made them EVEN WORSE, falling to 4-14. Talk all you want about how close games where, the fact is they went 4-14. Mack is getting so much credit for his 10-8 season, yet gets none of the blame of the 6-21 record he has managed to assemble in his other two seasons as GM.
We are always talking about the Bombers are young, they are on the upswing. Yet after the hot start of last season jumping out to a 7-1 start, the Bombers are 5-14 in regular season play and regressing. The team is going backwards under Mack, getting worse all the time.
It's not a few games he is losing. It is a lot of games, with no signs of improvement, in fact the team is getting worse all the time. If he gets so much credit for barely cracking .500, he deserves as much credit for the other 6-21 record he has put up. And yes, Hamilton's and Saskatchewan's fans expect them to win football games. It is the point of the sport, last I checked.
Fine, but up until 2 weeks ago it was all LaPolice's fault. Now suddenly it's crystal clear to everyone how it's Joe Mack's fault.
It's just too much scapegoating for me. You can even go back to Pt. I of this thread and see the progression of hate shift to Joe Mack.
Why not give Burke a chance at coach, or at least more than one game? I even found this nugget from this board:
"When I met Obby Khan this year he told me that Lapo was a *********. He also felt like the only good coach on the squad is Tim Burke and without him we'd have no wins the last two seasons as offense and special have shown no progress in two years. Obby wasnt holding back how he felt about his former coach. "
Fine, but up until 2 weeks ago it was all LaPolice's fault. Now suddenly it's crystal clear to everyone how it's Joe Mack's fault.
It's just too much scapegoating for me. You can even go back to Pt. I of this thread and see the progression of hate shift to Joe Mack.
Why not give Burke a chance at coach, or at least more than one game? I even found this nugget from this board:
"When I met Obby Khan this year he told me that Lapo was a *********. He also felt like the only good coach on the squad is Tim Burke and without him we'd have no wins the last two seasons as offense and special have shown no progress in two years. Obby wasnt holding back how he felt about his former coach. "
Not from me. You can trace my posts back to January, I have been saying this will happen, that Mack has destoyed this team. A team that was rising until the idiot took them and killed them. Until this year I have not been a Mack fan, but I was not calling for his head. He made plenty of decisions that were questionable, but the results were there. Plenty of struggles, but it was trending the right way.
Then he took a team that was progressing and tore their heart out. Destroyed them while telling us how much better we were getting and pretending to be 100x smarter than everyone else. He's not. It is his fault this team is going backwards. The LaPolice firing was not the right call, it was a desperate attempt to shift the blame, it failed. The only positive out of it is people are starting to see what I have been saying all along...Mack is an idiot who is preventing the Bombers from being a winning team.
Not from me. You can trace my posts back to January, I have been saying this will happen, that Mack has destoyed this team. A team that was rising until the idiot took them and killed them. Until this year I have not been a Mack fan, but I was not calling for his head. He made plenty of decisions that were questionable, but the results were there. Plenty of struggles, but it was trending the right way.
Then he took a team that was progressing and tore their heart out. Destroyed them while telling us how much better we were getting and pretending to be 100x smarter than everyone else. He's not. It is his fault this team is going backwards. The LaPolice firing was not the right call, it was a desperate attempt to shift the blame, it failed. The only positive out of it is people are starting to see what I have been saying all along...Mack is an idiot who is preventing the Bombers from being a winning team.
Who is this "Heart" of the team you speak of?? Obby... Donny O...?? who?
^ careful King, we know how the Sun works....they're not real reporters, they sell their paper based on gossip and what gets people emotionally wound up
I wouldn't put Friesen's words as the whole truth; likely he said something to a vet who didn't know the context and is reporting exaggerations, as he usually does. Its how Sun reporters work man.
That said, there may also be truth to what that player said...just subjectively. I'm sure if you asked another player they could say it might have an effect on them.
Doug Brown spoke of something similar several times this season, and I would personally take his word about the team over Friesen's second handed exaggerations & negatron gossip promoting any day.
I know you love the team and expect only greatness from them, and I don't blame you or any other fan for being upset and angry right now (I am pretty upset with management too) but let's not let it snowball...let's try to look at both sides
Considering it's the Sun, I bet it was the animal doctors that take care of the players pets that said it.
Who is this "Heart" of the team you speak of?? Obby... Donny O...?? who?
Last I checked Doug Brown Retired not macks fault
Departures: DT Doug Brown (starter), DE Odell Willis (starter), LG Brendan Labatte (starter), MLB Joe Lobendahn (starter), SB Greg Carr (starter), OLB Clint Kent (starter), DT Don Oramasionwu, RB Fred Reid (starter), C Obby Khan (starter), DT Dorian Smith (starter).
Most of which were not sufficiently replaced. Not at all. He forced players out for no reason. He let guys walk for nothing. He did not improve on team weaknesses, in fact he made the weaknesses way worse on top of making the strengths worse. The O-line is worse, the D-line is worse, the LB's are miles worse, the secondary is worse. RB is AT BEST a wash, and the WR are marginally better, but it does not matter when you had the worst starting QB in the league last year with two unproven backups and did nothing to improve it.
What is the judgement for a GM? I judge them by wins and losses. He has taken a team that was showing improvement, stripped it bare, not replaced them with any talent and for all this talk about improvement, we are WORSE than we were during his first disgraceful 4-14 season, at least we were in games that year. It is embarrassing for the fans to watch this team. And the buck stops with Mack.
Fact is you want make excuses for every one of those players, I am not going argue that again. Fact is this team is 2-7 and considerably worse than last year, in fact even considerably worse than that disgraceful first season. I don't understand how we are better off now than we were when he was brought in? Because our average age is lower? Blah, blah that is not going to work, you simply do not grow teams at 5+ year paces in the CFL, most careers are only 3-4 years. It makes NO SENSE.
I agree with the Fire Mack sentiment to a point. People make blanket statements about him destroying the team or stripping it bare yadda yadda is stupid too though.
It's not like he hasn't made acquiring Canadian talent a priority. He just hasn't found the right talent so far. Etienne, Muamba, Poblah are all only second year guys. Pencer is still a rookie and he isn't even able to progress further ATM so he could take another couple years. Doug Brown retiring and being replaced by this point in time simply wasn't possible. Cutting Clint Kent was probably the dumbest move this year made by management but that one falls on LaPolice. Willis for draft picks wasn't great either but he hasn't been missed on defense as much as a healthy Lobendahn or Kent.
Departures: DT Doug Brown (starter), DE Odell Willis (starter), LG Brendan Labatte (starter), MLB Joe Lobendahn (starter), SB Greg Carr (starter), OLB Clint Kent (starter), DT Don Oramasionwu, RB Fred Reid (starter), C Obby Khan (starter), DT Dorian Smith (starter).
Most of which were not sufficiently replaced. Not at all. He forced players out for no reason. He let guys walk for nothing. He did not improve on team weaknesses, in fact he made the weaknesses way worse on top of making the strengths worse. The O-line is worse, the D-line is worse, the LB's are miles worse, the secondary is worse. RB is AT BEST a wash, and the WR are marginally better, but it does not matter when you had the worst starting QB in the league last year with two unproven backups and did nothing to improve it.
What is the judgement for a GM? I judge them by wins and losses. He has taken a team that was showing improvement, stripped it bare, not replaced them with any talent and for all this talk about improvement, we are WORSE than we were during his first disgraceful 4-14 season, at least we were in games that year. It is embarrassing for the fans to watch this team. And the buck stops with Mack.
Fact is you want make excuses for every one of those players, I am not going argue that again. Fact is this team is 2-7 and considerably worse than last year, in fact even considerably worse than that disgraceful first season. I don't understand how we are better off now than we were when he was brought in? Because our average age is lower? Blah, blah that is not going to work, you simply do not grow teams at 5+ year paces in the CFL, most careers are only 3-4 years. It makes NO SENSE.
We have discussed all those moves and if you dont want to defend your position there is nothing I can do I guess. I just dont buy ur version or your view of the league.
We have discussed all those moves and if you dont want to defend your position there is nothing I can do I guess. I just dont buy ur version or your view of the league.
We've discussed all those moves ad nauseum. No need to get back into it.
I just cannot for the life of me see how a team that is getting worse, a team that does not even show up most weeks, a team that is the complete laughing stock of the entire league can be defended.
So, let me get this straight, Joe Mack was a joke last year when he took a 4-10 team and turned them into first place with a Grey Cup final?
Joe Mack was a joke when he helped build Grey Cup winning teams in the 80's?
I'm not really a CFL fan, I just can't get my head wrapped around this "Swaggerville" mentality if the Bombers win a few games, and crying bloody foul every time they lose a few. Are Hamilton's fans like this? Saskatchewan's?
The D got that team to the grey cup. What does the GM do? Oh lets get rid of them all.
Saskatchewan and Hamilton have both won multiple grey cups in the past 15 years. They've freaking won. Bombers haven't won in an EIGHT team league in 22 years. It's pathetic. Fans have every damn right to be mad and upset. It's frustrating.
Not from me. You can trace my posts back to January, I have been saying this will happen, that Mack has destoyed this team. A team that was rising until the idiot took them and killed them. Until this year I have not been a Mack fan, but I was not calling for his head. He made plenty of decisions that were questionable, but the results were there. Plenty of struggles, but it was trending the right way.
Then he took a team that was progressing and tore their heart out. Destroyed them while telling us how much better we were getting and pretending to be 100x smarter than everyone else. He's not. It is his fault this team is going backwards. The LaPolice firing was not the right call, it was a desperate attempt to shift the blame, it failed. The only positive out of it is people are starting to see what I have been saying all along...Mack is an idiot who is preventing the Bombers from being a winning team.
The idiot, the idiot. I don't see how calling a professional, coach, GM, owner, doctor, astronaut, whatever an idiot is providing a good argument for getting him fired ... that's just playground stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg
The D got that team to the grey cup. What does the GM do? Oh lets get rid of them all.
Saskatchewan and Hamilton have both won multiple grey cups in the past 15 years. They've freaking won. Bombers haven't won in an EIGHT team league in 22 years. It's pathetic. Fans have every damn right to be mad and upset. It's frustrating.
Unless Mack can make a few moves that gets this team trending in a positive direction, of course he should be fired. The team's record is awful, and what's worse is, there is not one player that he's acquired by draft, FA or trade that you would say is a potential CFL star (all-star or face of the team). The talent on this team is declining, plain and simple. How many starters on the Bombers could start on other CFL squads, very few.
Our 'claim to fame' has always been finding CFL stars at LB and RB, and perhaps on the Dline. But, even that seems to have dried up under Mack. Simpson has had his moments, but jury is still out.
When this team finishes 5-13 (or worse), Mack will be fired and a new guy hired. I'm more worried that the BoD will make a boneheaded decision again and we'll be right back where we are now. I have zero confidence that the BoD will get it right with a new hire. That is why i would rather see a complete gut - and bring in a seasoned football administrator as President & CEO. Then charge that person to put together a strong football operations with a quality GM, successful player personal guy, competent experienced coaching staff, etc. It's pretty obvious that the group we have now just can't get it done. Loyality is fine, but after a while, poor results just means there IS someone else out there that CAN get it done better than them.
For the record, i like coach Burke. He has been given an absolute NO-WIN situation, and i hope he remains in some capacity.
The idiot, the idiot. I don't see how calling a professional, coach, GM, owner, doctor, astronaut, whatever an idiot is providing a good argument for getting him fired ... that's just playground stuff.
Ok focus on that one little thing, I get upset with how he has ruined the team. Big deal.
My big problem with Mack boils down to the fact that he feels (kinda like Mike Kelly) he is soooo smart that he can redefine how the business is done when in fact he has done nothing but run the team into the ground. He is smarter than every other GM so he can reach with every pick, he has no need for CFL FA's since that's for those average GM's that aren't as good as him, he has no need for even talking to retain players, etc.
And comparing a football GM to an astronaut or doctor in terms of intelligence
On the other hand even astronaut's can be pretty damn stupid at times as well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E
For the record, i like coach Burke. He has been given an absolute NO-WIN situation, and i hope he remains in some capacity.
Agreed. Just another mistake by Mack, he has thrown Burke under the bus, IMO. And it might mean that probably the most valuable asset we have ends up leaving, I'm not sure if he would want to be back in a DC role now.
Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-08-2012 at 12:02 PM.
The idiot, the idiot. I don't see how calling a professional, coach, GM, owner, doctor, astronaut, whatever an idiot is providing a good argument for getting him fired ... that's just playground stuff.
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