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If you could fire Bettman

View Poll Results: Fire Bettman?
Fire him 54 80.60%
Keep him 13 19.40%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:52 PM
  #1
Gert B Frobe
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If you could fire Bettman

Would you? Imagine you're an owner and have a vote in such things. Can the little weasel? I sure would. He has that half-closed eyelid nose-in-the-air look of a person who loves his power. I think his only focus is money for the owners - and I understand that is what his job is - but I think he puts money so far in front of the fans, the players and the integrity of the game - that the money is the only thing he considers.

I saw him on NHL Live once - and the phone lines didn't work - he got so angry that he couldn't stop *****ing and moaning about it. He went on and on about how ridiculous it was that they couldn't take calls. He behaved like a spoiled little diva girl - and on tv no less. It gave me doosh chills.

Hate the guy. I posted the poll here because I didn't want any dissertations from some dork pre-law kid in Toronto writing an essay for us.

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09-06-2012, 11:03 PM
  #2
StandingCow
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If i'm an owner... I love him. All Bettman is, is a messenger of what the owners want, so what he says is pretty much what the majority of owners would say, at least that is how I look at things.

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09-06-2012, 11:14 PM
  #3
JDinkalage Morgoone
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As a fan I would deport him to Mars.

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09-07-2012, 12:33 AM
  #4
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Fans hate him, I can't imagine players like him, but owners love him. This is the richest the game has ever been, and it's going in the pockets of owners. As a fan I'd want him gone instantly and unquestionably...but it's a really bad spot when he has support of all the rich men.

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09-07-2012, 12:42 AM
  #5
PALE PWNR
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Who is going to take his job and be better at it?

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09-07-2012, 12:54 AM
  #6
Erza Scarlet
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not like there have been better alternatives. If there were, they would of been hired already.

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09-07-2012, 12:55 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Who is going to take his job and be better at it?
Anyone?

I mean I see it this way. He has hurt the game way more than helped it. He has not only pissed off fans, but he's made horrible business decisions as well. Let's just have a gander at some facts here:

-2, potentially 3 lockouts under his rule. None before.
-His obsession with hockey in the southern US LITERALLY costs every one else millions a year. How is this guy a good business man? It is like...text book, that you do not place teams where they will fail. They are failing, and he is still championing them. It's nonsense and egotistical, he just won't admit failure.
-ESPN. I don't know exactly what happened, but if he had any hand in letting ESPN slip away, it was a terrible move. The leading sports coverage in the nation literally ignores the sport because they have no right to carry it.

Let's face it, the NHL could be bigger and more profitable than it is. No one cares about hockey in the states other than diehards because it's not in the limelight. Fans are leaving due to lockouts, and I don't blame them. And he is hemorrhaging money by keeping teams in completely unsustainable markets. He is not only a terrible business man, but he doesn't get the game.

What are his positive contributions? The Winter Classic? Keep that, can his ass, put someone who wants what is best for the game and not himself at the helm, boom. Give me the job, guarantee I'd do better. I understand that hockey is more profitable than ever, but you can say the same about every sport, because sports in general have become more profitable in the past 20 years and continue to increase in worth. I give him less credit than I do the current climate and infatuation with sports.

And yea, owners love him. Wouldn't they love him more if teams like the Leafs and Habs didn't have to give money to sustain the Coyotes?

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09-07-2012, 01:20 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
-ESPN. I don't know exactly what happened, but if he had any hand in letting ESPN slip away, it was a terrible move. The leading sports coverage in the nation literally ignores the sport because they have no right to carry it.
Here's a half decent refresher on that subject by Puckdaddy.

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:37 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
Here's a half decent refresher on that subject by Puckdaddy.
Good article. That ESPN offer was for peanuts. The move looked horrible at first, but in a large part due to luck, has worked out. No one would have predicted that OLN would become NBC Sports, so people cannot give Bettman credit for unbelievable foresight. He certainly did not have foresight in his southern US strategy.

As to an alternative? That is not a fair question to ask. Bettman is paid as a corporate CEO. I would think business experience would be much more important than sports experience. As such, there are 100s of possible replacements. Does any fan on this board know those names? I doubt it.

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09-07-2012, 03:03 AM
  #10
Krishna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
Anyone?

I mean I see it this way. He has hurt the game way more than helped it. He has not only pissed off fans, but he's made horrible business decisions as well. Let's just have a gander at some facts here:

-2, potentially 3 lockouts under his rule. None before.
-His obsession with hockey in the southern US LITERALLY costs every one else millions a year. How is this guy a good business man? It is like...text book, that you do not place teams where they will fail. They are failing, and he is still championing them. It's nonsense and egotistical, he just won't admit failure.
-ESPN. I don't know exactly what happened, but if he had any hand in letting ESPN slip away, it was a terrible move. The leading sports coverage in the nation literally ignores the sport because they have no right to carry it.

Let's face it, the NHL could be bigger and more profitable than it is. No one cares about hockey in the states other than diehards because it's not in the limelight. Fans are leaving due to lockouts, and I don't blame them. And he is hemorrhaging money by keeping teams in completely unsustainable markets. He is not only a terrible business man, but he doesn't get the game.

What are his positive contributions? The Winter Classic? Keep that, can his ass, put someone who wants what is best for the game and not himself at the helm, boom. Give me the job, guarantee I'd do better. I understand that hockey is more profitable than ever, but you can say the same about every sport, because sports in general have become more profitable in the past 20 years and continue to increase in worth. I give him less credit than I do the current climate and infatuation with sports.

And yea, owners love him. Wouldn't they love him more if teams like the Leafs and Habs didn't have to give money to sustain the Coyotes?

Lockouts : If there is no CBA signed and the owners order him to put a lockout in effect, he has no say in the matter.

ESPN : After their 100m a year deal, they offered the NHL 60m a year for a few years. At that point in time, the NHL was just getting more publicity and they offered less. It was a joke offer. The OLN move was a risky one that ended up turning out great for the league, but you won't hear bettman haters mentioning it.

Expansion : When bettman became comissioner, there was already expansion taking place. The places he gave expansion to : Nashville, Atlanta, Minnesota, and columbus.

Nashville has a strong fanbase and owners who are putting up money for the team.

Atlanta was bought by ASG in 2005 when they bought the Hawks and the arena both occupied. ASG severly neglected the team and treated them like a red headed stepchild until they put the team up for sale and made any potential buyers put them in a different arena.

Minnesota also has a strong fan base and good owners. They've been hovering around breaking the last few years and are in a prime position to start making money with increasing sales of tickets for their new signed stars and their prospects who are are NHL ready.

Columbus was ruined by their terrible scouting and the terrible GM they have.

Relocated teams :

Minnesota North Stars to Dallas : Needing a new arena and a sexual harassment lawsuit that lead the owner's wife to make him move the team or she would leave him resulted in their relocation. Dallas has been a profitable organization and has made a profit in most of the last 10 years.

Hartford to Carolina : I am not quite sure why they were relocated after the sale because I have not read much on the issue. Apparently they needed a new arena and they couldn't get public funding for it. Carolina has been losing money but seems to have fixed their ways.

Quebec to Colorado : Financial issues due to the value of the canadian dollar being less than 80% of the value of the USD led them to be moved. Colorado has made profits every year since the lockout.

Winnipeg to Phoenix : Similar to Quebec's issues but made slightly worse since they were playing in the league's smallest arena and bringing in less money. Phoenix has been the only real losing cause for Bettman so far. And the reason he has not sold yet is because the NHL does not like Jim Balsillie due to the way he tried to strong arm the purchase of the Predators in 2007 and move them to Canada.

Like it or not, Bettman has done a great job. He has almost doubled revenues since 2004 and has almost increased revenues by 10 times since he took over.

The Winter Classic is a huge money grab for the league, but why not do it if sponsors are willing to shell out tons of money for it?

Another positive thing Bettman brought into the NHL was the Salary cap. The salary cap saved the league and there's not doubts about it.

I guarantee that you could not do a better job that bettman.


Edit : A mod on the business board PM'd me something when he saw this post about something did in the 90s and early 2000s that no one ever talks about.

The Canadian Assistance Plan was put in place by bettman to have american teams help out (revenue sharing) the smaller canadian markets.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-tax-nba-teams
Quote:
That economy lags. The Canadian dollar is currently worth 69 cents to the American dollar, near its historic low. That discrepancy becomes even more glaring when Canadian franchises are forced to take in revenue from the Canadian dollar and pay player salaries in U.S. funds.

The NHL has in place a program called the Canadian Assistance Plan fund to address the disparity. Canadian teams that meet requirements, such as a certain number of season-ticket sales, are eligible for compensation. Furthermore if a Canadian team has a free agent who receives an offer from a U.S. team, the Canadian team is allowed to match the offer in Canadian funds and the league will make up the difference.

"That's been helpful to Canadian teams," said Bryden, whose team received $3.7 million under the league plan last season. "What the federal government should do is recognize that it, too, should offset some of the effect of the exchange rate, which benefits other Canadian industries and happens to significantly negatively impact this business."
The CAP ended up running until the year of the lockout and each year gave Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, and Vancouver each about 3-4 million dollars per year.


Last edited by Krishna: 09-07-2012 at 03:11 AM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 03:03 AM
  #11
PALE PWNR
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The league is more profitable then it ever has been and continues to grow. Bettman saying **** you to ESPN and moving on to a no name channel was a ballsy move, if it failed hockey probably would have failed if it worked it would gradually grow into something bigger, and sure you can't say he had the foresight to know NBC would come knocking but the point of going to OLN was to get hockey its own channel to grow the sport and draw interest from larger networks which is exactly what it did and now you have a great TV deal with one of the best networks ever. You get the coverage you want from a leading network during prime time and are the #1 sport outside of the summer Olympics every 4 years.

I'll agree the lockouts are unacceptable, there is no reason to lockout the league every time the CBA is up. But honestly I'm pro trying to grow the game outside of normal markets as well as the attempt to create parity throughout the league. I like having a league where every team can compete and win on any given day even if my team would benefit from going back to the old ways of doing things. And sure you can point at Phoenix and Atlanta and say well hey those markets suck we are just hemorrhaging money into them year after year, I can point to Florida, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Carolina, LA, Colorodo, Dallas, San Jose and Anaheim and say it can work. Some better then others but it takes time to do so.

Sure the NHL could be bigger and more profitable then it is. But it could also be a lot worse. As the gentleman above stated it wasn't really a fair question as I don't think there are many on here that really know that answer. But the question of the poll is would i fire Bettman as a fan and my answer is no because I have no idea who could do that job better, nor would I be confident in whoever makes those decisions in finding a suitable replacement that wouldn't tank the league

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09-07-2012, 03:33 AM
  #12
Gustav Nyquist
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I agree with Krishna.

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09-07-2012, 08:43 AM
  #13
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Not only would I fire him, but I would re-hire him just to fire him again.

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09-07-2012, 08:57 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Who is going to take his job and be better at it?
I personally cant stand him but Brian Burke would be my choice, in my opinion he gets hockey from both sides, he has an overall care for the game and appears reather progressive. He has had some interesting ideas about contracts and salary take backs.

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09-07-2012, 09:35 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Lockouts : If there is no CBA signed and the owners order him to put a lockout in effect, he has no say in the matter.

ESPN : After their 100m a year deal, they offered the NHL 60m a year for a few years. At that point in time, the NHL was just getting more publicity and they offered less. It was a joke offer. The OLN move was a risky one that ended up turning out great for the league, but you won't hear bettman haters mentioning it.

Expansion : When bettman became comissioner, there was already expansion taking place. The places he gave expansion to : Nashville, Atlanta, Minnesota, and columbus.

Nashville has a strong fanbase and owners who are putting up money for the team.

Atlanta was bought by ASG in 2005 when they bought the Hawks and the arena both occupied. ASG severly neglected the team and treated them like a red headed stepchild until they put the team up for sale and made any potential buyers put them in a different arena.

Minnesota also has a strong fan base and good owners. They've been hovering around breaking the last few years and are in a prime position to start making money with increasing sales of tickets for their new signed stars and their prospects who are are NHL ready.

Columbus was ruined by their terrible scouting and the terrible GM they have.

Relocated teams :

Minnesota North Stars to Dallas : Needing a new arena and a sexual harassment lawsuit that lead the owner's wife to make him move the team or she would leave him resulted in their relocation. Dallas has been a profitable organization and has made a profit in most of the last 10 years.

Hartford to Carolina : I am not quite sure why they were relocated after the sale because I have not read much on the issue. Apparently they needed a new arena and they couldn't get public funding for it. Carolina has been losing money but seems to have fixed their ways.

Quebec to Colorado : Financial issues due to the value of the canadian dollar being less than 80% of the value of the USD led them to be moved. Colorado has made profits every year since the lockout.

Winnipeg to Phoenix : Similar to Quebec's issues but made slightly worse since they were playing in the league's smallest arena and bringing in less money. Phoenix has been the only real losing cause for Bettman so far. And the reason he has not sold yet is because the NHL does not like Jim Balsillie due to the way he tried to strong arm the purchase of the Predators in 2007 and move them to Canada.

Like it or not, Bettman has done a great job. He has almost doubled revenues since 2004 and has almost increased revenues by 10 times since he took over.

The Winter Classic is a huge money grab for the league, but why not do it if sponsors are willing to shell out tons of money for it?

Another positive thing Bettman brought into the NHL was the Salary cap. The salary cap saved the league and there's not doubts about it.

I guarantee that you could not do a better job that bettman.Edit : A mod on the business board PM'd me something when he saw this post about something did in the 90s and early 2000s that no one ever talks about.

The Canadian Assistance Plan was put in place by bettman to have american teams help out (revenue sharing) the smaller canadian markets.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...-tax-nba-teams


The CAP ended up running until the year of the lockout and each year gave Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, and Vancouver each about 3-4 million dollars per year.
Very well put. The NHL needs a person like Bettman in order to flourish in today's market.

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09-07-2012, 10:15 AM
  #16
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Anybody who spearheads possibly 3 lock-outs in his career needs to go. And believe me, although there are some very strong willed owners like Snider and Jacobs, they each have only one vote; the BoG (like most Board of Directors) follows the recommendations of the commissioner who has the resources to analyze any number of situations and go forward with recommendations based on that. The owners are generally businessmen with a number of pans in the fire, their NHL franchise is likely only one of many pans. They cannot possibly follow and be totally immersed in the day-to day actions of the league. Bettman brings to them any number of options around a new CBA with a recommended course of action around one, and away they go. I'm sure there's probably a dozen slide shows in the NHL office, each with a different scenario as to how an option might play out. I'd be completely surprised if he and his cronies like Daley don't have at least 90% of the say in the decision making process. Trust me (and I've been there) it's pretty easy to influence a consensus decision around the way you present any number of proposals and preferred option and I'd just about bet my bank account (such as it is) on Bettman steering this thing the way he wants it to go. IMO, this thinking of some that he's just following the wishes of the owners is an over-simplification of what actually is happening.

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09-07-2012, 12:06 PM
  #17
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I really like the points Krishna made. Quite frankly, as far as the owners are concerned, Bettman makes them money... period. However, you wonder if the whole Phoenix situation has prevented even bigger revenue.

My personal feeling is that Phoenix should should have just be sold and moved... period. That team will never make the kind of money that other markets with hockey fans could produce. I understand the issues the league has with Basillie, but had they let him purchase the team and move it, revenues could have been even better. If you ask me, Toronto and Buffalo were probably the only two teams that might be negatively effected had the team moved to Hamilton.

Even if not Basillie, they could have just allowed the team to go back to Winnipeg where it belonged in the first place. The fact that so much frustration came out of the Phoenix saga, you wonder how the Atlanta situation was figured out so quickly.

I'm really no expert when it comes to this stuff... I just like the game of hockey, and wonder why a commissioner will fight through just about anything to keep a team in a city that doesn't care. Beyond the Phoenix situation, I can nitpick a little bit. Like the changing of the division/conference names to regional names. That's sort of the shining example of the decisions Bettman has made that really irk the longtime hockey fans.

Above all though, as a Flyers fan, it pains me to say this... Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin are really two huge reasons the NHL has grown into the popularity it has today with its monster revenues. If not for those two and the hype the NHL pushed around them, I really don't see the NHL is where it is today. You could say that Bettman orchestrated that hype, but it really was a no-brainer. You can also point to the fact that the SC Finals from 2008-2011 all featured teams that have great fan bases and immense national popularity.

In conclusion, the good things Bettman has done through the years, IMO, could be done by another qualified individual running the league based on the owners' wants and needs. But the whole Phoenix situation really drags him down to the point that if there is another lockout, he might need to be fired just to appease the masses.

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09-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #18
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Bettman is just a face for the owners. It's not his fault the lockout is about to happen AGAIN, but damnit I hate him anyway.

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09-07-2012, 12:34 PM
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Some of you make it sound like he just does what the owners want him to but he's way more than that. I can't stand him, he is obsessed with putting teams where nobody gives a **** and screwing the fans over time and time again with lockouts. The players caved big time last year and with the league thriving, he wants to take more from them.

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09-07-2012, 12:42 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Some of you make it sound like he just does what the owners want him to but he's way more than that. I can't stand him, he is obsessed with putting teams where nobody gives a **** and screwing the fans over time and time again with lockouts. The players caved big time last year and with the league thriving, he wants to take more from them.
You do know that the owners have to vote on any new franchises, relocation, and any lockouts right?

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09-07-2012, 01:10 PM
  #21
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The Phoenix thing is a debacle. Otherwise he's done alright. Compared to other commissioners he's about par for the course.

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09-07-2012, 01:28 PM
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I've said it before, the owners at the time drank his kool-aid, made a few extra bucks and now that the rooster's come home, have to pay the price for too many poorly located franchises which have hardly any chance of breaking even and fielding a competitve team. There are some really tough decisions that will ultimately have to be made which might include contraction to 28 teams and relocation of others. All this can be pinned on Bettman who likely sold the search committee before he was hired on his grand vision which was going to bring them all to the end of the rainbow. Does anybody in their right mind honestly think Phoenix will make a go of it if there is a lost year- in that case, the Coyotes will just be an afterthought next year. My biggest worry is that this dispute might end up changing the complete face of North American professional major league hockey, particularly if the whole year, or more, is lost.

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09-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #23
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If I could fire Bettman, eh?


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09-07-2012, 05:22 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Would you? Imagine you're an owner and have a vote in such things. Can the little weasel? I sure would. He has that half-closed eyelid nose-in-the-air look of a person who loves his power. I think his only focus is money for the owners - and I understand that is what his job is - but I think he puts money so far in front of the fans, the players and the integrity of the game - that the money is the only thing he considers.

I saw him on NHL Live once - and the phone lines didn't work - he got so angry that he couldn't stop *****ing and moaning about it. He went on and on about how ridiculous it was that they couldn't take calls. He behaved like a spoiled little diva girl - and on tv no less. It gave me doosh chills.

Hate the guy. I posted the poll here because I didn't want any dissertations from some dork pre-law kid in Toronto writing an essay for us.
As worded... as an Owner, I would not fire the man that arguably is the main reason my Organization has made me so much money and my League is at its height of popularity and standing in the Pro Ranks... The NHL has an Up Arrow while the NBA probably has a Down one. As an imaginary Owner, I had to vote to keep him.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 09-07-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 06:43 PM
  #25
Gert B Frobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Very well put. The NHL needs a person like Bettman in order to flourish in today's market.
Are you really going to feel that way in February when the season is scrapped? Really - couldn't someone else have done all or most of the good things Bettman has done without all the damn stoppages?

As an owner - couldn't I have made more money by paying the players maybe 10% more and partially or completely avoided the stoppages?

I won't say that Bettman never made a good decision but to say that he is responsible for the success of the league is like believing Al Gore invented the internet.

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