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Ottawa Extends Zack Smith [4 Years, $1,887,500/year]

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Old
09-07-2012, 06:59 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He just turned 24yo and put up higher end 3rd line numbers (14goals, 26 points) this year; his 1st full season in the league. He was 8th in ice time among forwards on the team.

Jesse Winchester is 28 and his career high is 18 points.
Zenon Konopka is 31 and his career high is 9 points.
Those guys are 4th liners.
Aw, ok. So he's marginally better than a 4th liner. Good thing he's signed. Wouldn't want to lose a core player.

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Old
09-07-2012, 07:23 PM
  #77
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Would be perfect in Chicago. Too bad.

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Aw, ok. So he's marginally better than a 4th liner. Good thing he's signed. Wouldn't want to lose a core player.
His numbers are in addition to the grit, defensive play and PK time he brings as our 3rd line center. Not sure was you're upset about.

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09-07-2012, 08:40 PM
  #79
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His numbers are in addition to the grit, defensive play and PK time he brings as our 3rd line center. Not sure was you're upset about.
Me? I'm not upset about anything. I just think it's a dumb signing.

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09-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #80
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Me? I'm not upset about anything. I just think it's a dumb signing.
The hypocrisy in that line below your username is just hilarious.

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09-07-2012, 08:49 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He just turned 24yo and put up higher end 3rd line numbers (14goals, 26 points) this year; his 1st full season in the league. He was 8th in ice time among forwards on the team.

Jesse Winchester is 28 and his career high is 18 points.
Zenon Konopka is 31 and his career high is 9 points.
Those guys are 4th liners.



Oh, what year was that? ... Never?

A couple of shifts and smattering of games here and there didn't make Alfredsson a linemate of Fisher's in any given season such that it ever could have affected his production ---> because they didn't play together enough.

These were Turris's RW's this year:
Alfredsson = 93.4%
B. Butler = 6.6%

Fisher never played with Alfredsson to anywhere near that extent. My best guess is that most of his seasons as the second line center look something like:
90% = Neil/Eaves/Shannon
10% = Alfredsson

With the exception of much of 1.5 seasons with Kovalev & half of a season with Comrie.




How to lie with statistics: 101

Mike Fisher became Ottawa's 2nd line center at 25yo, not 22yo.
From then on, he put up full seasons of:
0.65
0.71
0.59

0.41*
0.67

* Hartsburg tanked the #1 offense from the previous season down to 29th with amateurish breakout strategy before getting ****canned 48 games into the year. Everybody's offense suffered.

He put up those numbers playing with:
LW = Schaefer (2 seasons) or Foligno ( bits & pieces of 3 seasons)
RW = Kovalev (1 season), Comrie (0.5 seasons), Neil/Eaves/Shannon (~ the rest)

---------------------------------

Turris just put up a 0.53 pace with:
RW = Alfredsson
LW = Foligno (33.7%), Greening (21.4%), Michalek (7.1%)... 2/3rds of his season

The highest ranked players Fisher ever played an entire season with:
2009-10 = Kovalev = 98th in scoring
2005-06 = Schaefer = 115th in scoring

Turris, 2011-12 alone:
2011-12 = Alfie = 59th in scoring
2011-12 = Foligno = 110th in scoring

Now, obviously he didn't play with Foligno the entire year... so that comparison is somewhat disingenuous as well. But let me show you something about Greening's 37 points.

In the 5 full seasons that Fisher was the 2nd line center, 37 points was eclipsed only 7 times by players other than Alfie, Spezza, Heatley & Fisher.

- So that's the CASH line members who Fisher didn't play with.
- Vermette x 2 and Kelly x 1... who Fisher didn't play with.
- Schaefer x 2 and Kovalev x 1... Fisher's linemates in those seasons.
- Bryan Smolinski x 1... I honestly can't remember who he played with.

So 3 full season linemates out of 10 possible over 5 full seasons eclipsed 37 points.

And I shouldn't be skeptical of Turris's small sample size with a 27 goal scorer? ... Everything will just work out smashingly once he's expected to carry a 21yo Nick Foligno & Ryan Shannon?
The last person to have such a ridiculous and never ending ultimatum based agenda was Fuhr and his wild Murray hunt.

Sad to see since you used to be one of the most interesting posters on this whole site.

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:51 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Me? I'm not upset about anything. I just think it's a dumb signing.
I see Smith as a PK & 3rd line mainstay for the foreseeable future. If it's the term you don't like, I guarantee there'd be interest from other teams at 1.88 mil down the road.

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09-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
In 06/07 Alfie figured in on 40% of Fisher's ES points. That's not including any EN points either.

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09-07-2012, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
The last person to have such a ridiculous and never ending ultimatum based agenda was Fuhr and his wild Murray hunt.

Sad to see since you used to be one of the most interesting posters on this whole site.
Can of worms = opened.

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09-07-2012, 08:54 PM
  #85
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Haha, no.

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by McFist View Post
Can of worms = opened.
He opens a rotten, stale, overused can of worms in every thread, regardless of whether or not it is related. He jumps on Turris at every mention of his name. I'm just letting him know that regardless of whether he is wrong or right, it is long past the point where the argument is useful and constructive.

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09-07-2012, 09:04 PM
  #87
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The hypocrisy in that line below your username is just hilarious.
Whatever that means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McFist View Post
I see Smith as a PK & 3rd line mainstay for the foreseeable future. If it's the term you don't like, I guarantee there'd be interest from other teams at 1.88 mil down the road.
It's more the term than the dollars. He had a respectable season in the role that he plays, but it is only one season.

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Old
09-07-2012, 09:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Aw, ok. So he's marginally better than a 4th liner. Good thing he's signed. Wouldn't want to lose a core player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Me? I'm not upset about anything. I just think it's a dumb signing.
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Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
The hypocrisy in that line below your username is just hilarious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Whatever that means.
Haters gonna hate.

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09-07-2012, 09:16 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
He opens a rotten, stale, overused can of worms in every thread, regardless of whether or not it is related. He jumps on Turris at every mention of his name. I'm just letting him know that regardless of whether he is wrong or right, it is long past the point where the argument is useful and constructive.
Yeah I'm not disagreeing, just anticipating a bigger debate is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
It's more the term than the dollars. He had a respectable season in the role that he plays, but it is only one season.
I was surprised at the term, but it's very good dollars-wise, so I'm not unhappy with the deal. Neil will be slowing down pretty soon and we also don't have that many gritty, defensive forwards hanging around (do we?).

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09-07-2012, 09:25 PM
  #90
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It's more the term than the dollars. He had a respectable season in the role that he plays, but it is only one season.
Don't worry so much about it. 99.9% of Sens fans like it, there's a reason for that. We see Smith play all the time - and he's worth that salary and that term.

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09-09-2012, 03:06 PM
  #91
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Don't worry so much about it. 99.9% of Sens fans like it, there's a reason for that. We see Smith play all the time - and he's worth that salary and that term.
Hear hear.

I think there's a perception that the only forwards who can/should be core guys are top 6 offensive guys. As a fictional GM myself, I can tell you I would lock up my hard-nosed, defensive PK anchors, since they aren't dime-a-dozen players. And no coach looks at the 3rd line as a third-string scoring line. When they score it's in addition to the crucial role they play. When people bring up Smith's offensive output it's like admitting you don't know why he's even on them team in the first place.

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09-09-2012, 05:31 PM
  #92
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Hear hear.

I think there's a perception that the only forwards who can/should be core guys are top 6 offensive guys. As a fictional GM myself, I can tell you I would lock up my hard-nosed, defensive PK anchors, since they aren't dime-a-dozen players. And no coach looks at the 3rd line as a third-string scoring line. When they score it's in addition to the crucial role they play. When people bring up Smith's offensive output it's like admitting you don't know why he's even on them team in the first place.
Yeah exactly. Having witnessed the Sens get destroyed by the Ducks in the 07 Finals, I think the bottom six can be just as important.

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09-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #93
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Yeah exactly. Having witnessed the Sens get destroyed by the Ducks in the 07 Finals, I think the bottom six can be just as important.
Couldn't agree more. Gotta love Murray addressing this in addition to locking up our star players.

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09-09-2012, 06:41 PM
  #94
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For those who aren't aware, the reason that Ottawa is making these signings is because of the cap minimum. Ottawa will be losing Gonchar and Alfredsson to retirement next offseason. That's 10 million off the books that will have to be replaced with raises or new signings.

At that point, only Turris, Smith, Daugavins, Condra, Latendresse, Lundin and Regin will be eligible for new contracts and raises.

Murray can't extend Regin or Latendresse until they can play a full healthy season so they're done. Lundin, Conda, and Daugavins aren't expected to earn more than 1 million each, so extending minor players doesn't really help.

So the question becomes: How will Ottawa make the cap floor? Even if Turris and Smith never progress significantly, they're still going to (by the end of their contracts) get a similar amount of money over 4 and 5 years respectively. The benefit to Ottawa with the signings is that they get to pay that money sooner (when they're going to have trouble making the cap floor) rather than in 2-3 years when they might not be in such a situation.

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Old
09-10-2012, 04:46 AM
  #95
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this is an annoying contract as a leaf fan to see but a good contract as an NHL fan to see. Good job by Murray.

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09-10-2012, 06:43 PM
  #96
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Haters gonna hate.
He deleted the quote below his name..

Clearly he didn't understand my comment..

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