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Episode IX|The Off-Season Thread|It's... still the offseason.

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09-07-2012, 01:13 PM
  #126
Ogrezilla
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With Orpik likely declining, Martin trade bait in due time and no one in our prospect pool close to being able to take on Letang's role, he'll be resigned for whatever it takes.

I do question his ability on the PP and his health with the concussion history and his style of play coupled with his size.
I think Morrow will eventually take his spot on the powerplay. He will in turn be a great 2nd powerplay QB.

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09-07-2012, 01:50 PM
  #127
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i would like to see letang put together one solid season of good/great defensive play before giving him a huge deal.

i question whether he can be the #1 d-man on a cup winning team. too "all over the place" defensively right now. his actual contributions to winning hockey games are less than his talent would suggest.

pens were obviously terrible defensively these past playoffs, and the teams #1 d-man deserves a huge part of that blame. its not just on martin and fleury.

if he can put together a very good all-around season this year, i will be fine with giving him a big deal. if not, i dunno what i'd do.

basically, letang in his current form is not leading any teams to the promised land. play a smart, safer game while still making his of his talents like doughty did this postseason.

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09-07-2012, 01:51 PM
  #128
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This is why I am very curious as to how our defensive pool will develop over the next couple of years. Even though I am a massive Letang fan, and he is a pure beast when he is clicking 100%, if our pool builds ideally Letang maybe better used in a trade for a big deadline package than kept on a multi year deal.
Letang is not going anywhere (by PIT management) and he will sign for 7 mil (if he wants to stay in Pit). I don't really know where he stands though if he likes it here or not. Orpik is the guy to offload. He is aging and his physical game will be very maintenance intensive to keep up. Let someone else pay him 4-5 mil.

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09-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #129
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I think Morrow will eventually take his spot on the powerplay. He will in turn be a great 2nd powerplay QB.
How many 7+ million dollar D-men don't play on the 1st unit PP.

It's a legit question to ask down the road if Harrington, Despres and Morrow all pan out and we're up against the cap.

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09-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #130
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How many 7+ million dollar D-men don't play on the 1st unit PP.

It's a legit question to ask down the road if Harrington, Despres and Morrow all pan out and we're up against the cap.
well he can be on the 1st unit without necessarily quarterbacking it. i think only Morrow and Pouliot have the potential to supplant Letang on the 1st unit and them both developing to the point where that happens is a good problem to have.

how was Chicago's PP set up when they had Keith/Seabrook/Campbell? in terms of offensive only these three could develop into such a combo. (09-10 hawks: $1,475,000/3,500,000/7,142,87 respectively).

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09-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #131
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well he can be on the 1st unit without necessarily quarterbacking it. i think only Morrow and Pouliot have the potential to supplant Letang on the 1st unit and them both developing to the point where that happens is a good problem to have.

how was Chicago's PP set up when they had Keith/Seabrook/Campbell? in terms of offensive only these three could develop into such a combo. (09-10 hawks: $1,475,000/3,500,000/7,142,87 respectively).
true. Letang can play where Sullivan did this year if Morrow can play the QB role.

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09-07-2012, 03:30 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Letang is not going anywhere (by PIT management) and he will sign for 7 mil (if he wants to stay in Pit). I don't really know where he stands though if he likes it here or not. Orpik is the guy to offload. He is aging and his physical game will be very maintenance intensive to keep up. Let someone else pay him 4-5 mil.
Letang should get paid the same amount of Karlsson. No higher, less would be great. I would give him the same deal Yandle signed last year.

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09-07-2012, 03:44 PM
  #133
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Letang should get paid the same amount of Karlsson. No higher, less would be great. I would give him the same deal Yandle signed last year.
except he's getting his deal two years later. So it depends how the market changes by then. If the same CBA was in place, he would almost certainly get a little more just due to two years of inflation. As someone said above, it also depends how he plays between now and then. And also how often he can't play could potentially be a factor. There's no real injury trends so far so lets hope it stays that way.

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09-07-2012, 04:49 PM
  #134
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except he's getting his deal two years later. So it depends how the market changes by then. If the same CBA was in place, he would almost certainly get a little more just due to two years of inflation. As someone said above, it also depends how he plays between now and then. And also how often he can't play could potentially be a factor. There's no real injury trends so far so lets hope it stays that way.
True. If the cap does go down 5.5-6 would be fair for him.

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09-07-2012, 05:09 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
i would like to see letang put together one solid season of good/great defensive play before giving him a huge deal.

i question whether he can be the #1 d-man on a cup winning team. too "all over the place" defensively right now. his actual contributions to winning hockey games are less than his talent would suggest.

pens were obviously terrible defensively these past playoffs, and the teams #1 d-man deserves a huge part of that blame. its not just on martin and fleury.

if he can put together a very good all-around season this year, i will be fine with giving him a big deal. if not, i dunno what i'd do.

basically, letang in his current form is not leading any teams to the promised land. play a smart, safer game while still making his of his talents like doughty did this postseason.
People have unrealistic expectations if they think Letang has to improve to deserve a huge deal. There are 4 players who've finished in the Top 10 in Norris voting the past two years - Weber, Lidstrom, Chara, and Letang. Lidstrom's retired, and I don't see Weber or Chara going anywhere.

The Pens were terrible defensively this past playoffs, but Letang was the best by far of any of our defensemen who played significant minutes. He didn't play up to his usual standard, but none of our big-time players outside of Staal did.

Letang's the one player on our defense who we should be building around, and the last player we should be nickel-and-diming when contract time rolls around. If we don't pay him, there'll be 29 other teams falling over each other to do it.

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09-07-2012, 05:13 PM
  #136
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the biggest thing Letang needs to work on is keeping his cool.

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09-07-2012, 05:15 PM
  #137
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the biggest thing Letang needs to work on is keeping his cool.
Yeah, and that comes with age, I think.

Letang is just like Crosby. He's a fiery guy. I'd rather him going ballistic versus playing with a Paul Martin level of calmness. I liked how Letang has played prior to this past year (not really that I had an issue with how he played this past season), but before, he wouldn't go on seek and destroy missions when guys would get under his skin.

He has always had that dimension though. He wouldn't hit, but when you pissed him off, he'd light guys up. I enjoyed that. He could certainly pick his spots better, and play with a more level head. But he could also bring some of that nastiness without being provoked first. It's a balancing act.

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09-07-2012, 05:29 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
People have unrealistic expectations if they think Letang has to improve to deserve a huge deal. There are 4 players who've finished in the Top 10 in Norris voting the past two years - Weber, Lidstrom, Chara, and Letang. Lidstrom's retired, and I don't see Weber or Chara going anywhere.

The Pens were terrible defensively this past playoffs, but Letang was the best by far of any of our defensemen who played significant minutes. He didn't play up to his usual standard, but none of our big-time players outside of Staal did.

Letang's the one player on our defense who we should be building around, and the last player we should be nickel-and-diming when contract time rolls around. If we don't pay him, there'll be 29 other teams falling over each other to do it.
Yeah but thats the dopey media voting on the Norris. Letang being all over the ice is seen as hard working in their eyes. While he is a hard worker he's also really , really sloppy so most of his hard work is thrown out the window because he's covering up mistakes. IMO he would take a big step up if he would simplify his game a little. I thought he was turning that way when he had an awesome 1st half of the 10/11 season but then he tried to make up for Malkin and Sid being out and forced plays all over the ice. He's to good to run around all over the ice like that.

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09-07-2012, 05:30 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
People have unrealistic expectations if they think Letang has to improve to deserve a huge deal. There are 4 players who've finished in the Top 10 in Norris voting the past two years - Weber, Lidstrom, Chara, and Letang. Lidstrom's retired, and I don't see Weber or Chara going anywhere.

The Pens were terrible defensively this past playoffs, but Letang was the best by far of any of our defensemen who played significant minutes. He didn't play up to his usual standard, but none of our big-time players outside of Staal did.

Letang's the one player on our defense who we should be building around, and the last player we should be nickel-and-diming when contract time rolls around. If we don't pay him, there'll be 29 other teams falling over each other to do it.
i've seen you say this a few times, but i just don't buy it. he was terrible defensively. if martin/michalek/orpik were F-, then letang was an F+, so the line "our best defensive d-man" is meaningless.

you dont have one of the worst GAA in history if your #1 dman played a good defensive game. hes the leader of your defense and your defense was terrible, so he deserves a lot of blame.

sure teams will overpay for letang, but right now he is more style than substance. thats pretty much what i attribute his norris voting to (most recent norris winner is great example of style over substance).

some team may pay this current version of letang seven million, but i dont believe hes currently worth that to the penguins. particularly on a long term deal, when the pens have talented youngsters that have a reasonable chance of filling his role.

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09-07-2012, 05:55 PM
  #140
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Everybody had a bad series and you also have to remember he was coming back from concussions. It pisses me off when people say Letang isn't good at defense. You're undermining him and its ridiculous. He holds his own to say the absolute least. Just stop.

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09-07-2012, 05:57 PM
  #141
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Everybody had a bad series and you also have to remember he was coming back from concussions. It pisses me off when people say Letang isn't good at defense. You're undermining him and its ridiculous. He holds his own to say the absolute least. Just stop.
he oscillates between very good and terrible defensively. i do not want the penguins to pay huge money for a number one d-man with that sort of play in his own zone.

not saying he cant improve though.

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09-07-2012, 06:02 PM
  #142
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Would you suggest we lose him and have Paul Martin as our #1?

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09-07-2012, 06:11 PM
  #143
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Would you suggest we lose him and have Paul Martin as our #1?
i dont really have a good alternative, i just know i do not want to pay letang $7 mill if his game stays roughly where it is now.

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09-07-2012, 06:29 PM
  #144
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I wouldn't pay him more than $6M. It would suck to lose him but at some point you have to think big picture financially and chances are things will be more constrained whenever hockey returns, not less. Considering guys like Morrow and Despres are entering the mix the next 12 months, hopefully that gives Letang some motivation to not seek maximum dollars.

Geno is the absolute #1 priority. Whatever he wants, he gets, and if that means Letang can't, then Letang can't.

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09-07-2012, 06:31 PM
  #145
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Everybody had a bad series and you also have to remember he was coming back from concussions. It pisses me off when people say Letang isn't good at defense. You're undermining him and its ridiculous. He holds his own to say the absolute least. Just stop.
If it wasn't for his speed, he would get beat a lot more often.

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09-07-2012, 06:58 PM
  #146
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If it wasn't for his speed, he would get beat a lot more often.
that really is irrelevant. He has his speed. If it wasn't for his shooting, Neal would score a lot less goals too.

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09-07-2012, 07:16 PM
  #147
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that really is irrelevant. He has his speed. If it wasn't for his shooting, Neal would score a lot less goals too.
Good point. lol.

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09-07-2012, 07:19 PM
  #148
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Everybody had a bad series and you also have to remember he was coming back from concussions. It pisses me off when people say Letang isn't good at defense. You're undermining him and its ridiculous. He holds his own to say the absolute least. Just stop.
This post is why I don't like Letang, and it's of no fault of his own.

Believe it or not, he's not above criticism. Thus far, erratic is probably the best way to describe Letang's defense. Some nights he looks like a Norris finalist then the next night you wonder if Joe Melichar put on a wig and stole his gear. Though those nights are becoming less frequent as he matures, he's not the generational talent some of the fan base makes him out to be.

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09-07-2012, 08:45 PM
  #149
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Letang is another reason why I hope Shero brings Sarge back at the deadline ... if there is one anyway. Not only would it be sweet to have Gonchar back on the PP, he'd be a great mentor for all of our young D, including Letang.

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09-07-2012, 08:47 PM
  #150
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I'd give Letang $7m in a heartbeat. If he got a contract worth $7m/year, I'd feel absolutely fine about it. Karlsson just got 6.5 for 7. Letang is worth $500k more than Karlsson if he's going to leave otherwise.

I'd rather have Letang on my team than Karlsson any day, anyway (we're on the Pens board, right? I'm not going to have Sens fans start puffing their chests out here?).

Also, people suggesting his spot could/should/would end up going to rookies who haven't played a game yet in the NHL proper are absolutely off their rockers. Stop posting.

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