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ESPN: The Phoenix Coyotes are the best franchise in the NHL!!?

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Old
09-07-2012, 05:35 PM
  #1
Babs
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ESPN: The Phoenix Coyotes are the best franchise in the NHL!!?

ESPN ranks the Phoenix Coyotes as the best franchise in the NHL, the Leafs are the worst sports franchise in not only in the NHL but of all North American sports franchises!! http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings

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09-07-2012, 05:50 PM
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The Optimist
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Look at the criteria. Cheap tickets and winning matters most. Leafs are poor on both accounts (as is Vancouver).

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09-07-2012, 05:50 PM
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I wish I hadn't read that.

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09-07-2012, 05:57 PM
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09-07-2012, 06:02 PM
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LickTheEnvelope
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Nucks ownership and coaching rank pretty high. It's the price and previous championships that lower their score.

The Leafs are pretty obvious... Coyotes are SOOOO cheap that it makes some sense.

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09-07-2012, 06:04 PM
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stevecanuck16
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Originally Posted by The Optimist View Post
Look at the criteria. Cheap tickets and winning matters most. Leafs are poor on both accounts (as is Vancouver).
Wait, what? What has Phoenix won that Vancouver hasn't?

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09-07-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Wait, what? What has Phoenix won that Vancouver hasn't?
The award for cheapest tickets

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09-07-2012, 07:27 PM
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The award for cheapest tickets
yet they dont have a sell out streak anywhere near ours...

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09-07-2012, 07:43 PM
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I like how they're ahead of us on "stadium experience." Half-full arena in the middle of nowhere vs. packed downtown arena in a hockey town? Oh, wait, they've got more guys with t-shirt cannons, guess that gives them the edge.

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09-07-2012, 07:54 PM
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This reminds me of those inane top 10 best cities to live in and ranking #1 is some random town no one cares about....

Wait, what? Vancouver regularly ranks in the top ten with other regulars like Zurich and Melbourne?

We can't crow about it when questionable criteria boosts up the hometown and complain when the Coyotes land on top for similarly questionable criteria.

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09-07-2012, 08:15 PM
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I thought Tampa Bay was #1 in the NHL according to ESPN, maybe I read things wrong.

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:51 PM
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Phoenix is 6th in 2012, Tampa Bay is 7th, so pretty close.

Phoenix gets high marks for bang-for-buck, affordability and coaching. That makes sense, they are paying bargain basement prices for a playoff team. They get their worst mark in ownership.

Tampa Bay gets it's highest marks in fan relations, ownership and stadium experience.

Toronto is ranked at the bottom because they have expensive tickets, but haven't been a winning franchise. The fans aren't getting what they are paying for. Since they don't have any nearby competition except Buffalo and Ottawa, they still get enough demand from diehard fans to overcharge for a sub-standard on-ice product.

Vancouver is 91st overall. Highest marks in ownership, worst mark is in affordability. We get a better bang-for-buck because Vancouver has been winning.

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09-07-2012, 09:18 PM
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Makes sense.

A corner upper bowl seat in Vancouver can probably land you a center lower bowl seat with all you can eat hot dog and free parking.

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09-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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Kind of a head scratcher on these "expert" rankings...

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09-07-2012, 09:56 PM
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Makes sense.

A corner upper bowl seat in Vancouver can probably land you a center lower bowl seat with all you can eat hot dog and free parking and airfare, a hotel room, and personal masseuse for the evening.
Fixed it.

Once again, ESPN delivers. A bankrupt team is the best NHL franchise. Boo-ya!

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Old
09-08-2012, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
I like how they're ahead of us on "stadium experience." Half-full arena in the middle of nowhere vs. packed downtown arena in a hockey town? Oh, wait, they've got more guys with t-shirt cannons, guess that gives them the edge.
I'd agree, except for the fact that their half-filled stadium is louder than our full one.

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Old
09-08-2012, 04:12 AM
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I'd agree, except for the fact that their half-filled stadium is louder than our full one.
The Canucks should use Luongo's salary to lower the beer prices. More beer, louder fans!!

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Old
09-08-2012, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Phoenix is 6th in 2012, Tampa Bay is 7th, so pretty close.

Phoenix gets high marks for bang-for-buck, affordability and coaching. That makes sense, they are paying bargain basement prices for a playoff team. They get their worst mark in ownership.

Tampa Bay gets it's highest marks in fan relations, ownership and stadium experience.

Toronto is ranked at the bottom because they have expensive tickets, but haven't been a winning franchise. The fans aren't getting what they are paying for. Since they don't have any nearby competition except Buffalo and Ottawa, they still get enough demand from diehard fans to overcharge for a sub-standard on-ice product.

Vancouver is 91st overall. Highest marks in ownership, worst mark is in affordability. We get a better bang-for-buck because Vancouver has been winning.
Bang for the buck is stupid if you have affordability as a separate category considering it is wins/affordability. Just have wins and affordability as 2 completely separate items. I'm not even sure wins is great, maybe loses might be more accurate.

What I want to know is where are the other important fan criteria like, and yes these are fan criteria -

financial stability: I know as a canucks fan I can invest more emotionally in my team knowing it won't relocate. If I was a Phoenix fan the fact the team is in constant trouble and a threat to lease would be a massive constant downer on emotionally committing that team.

Team payroll: ability to spend up. As a fan knowing you can spend as much as anyone else is a great thing. Wondering if you can compete in any year because you are a cap floor team would constantly suck the life out of you.

Ticket sales/Sellouts: sure it's nice to know you can get tickets for the whole family for under $150 total (see affordability), but it's also nice going to a packed arena and knowing there are a lot of other fans about in the community at large.


Last edited by me2: 09-08-2012 at 04:33 AM.
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09-08-2012, 05:56 AM
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Bang for the buck is stupid if you have affordability as a separate category considering it is wins/affordability. Just have wins and affordability as 2 completely separate items. I'm not even sure wins is great, maybe loses might be more accurate.

What I want to know is where are the other important fan criteria like, and yes these are fan criteria -

financial stability: I know as a canucks fan I can invest more emotionally in my team knowing it won't relocate. If I was a Phoenix fan the fact the team is in constant trouble and a threat to lease would be a massive constant downer on emotionally committing that team.

Team payroll: ability to spend up. As a fan knowing you can spend as much as anyone else is a great thing. Wondering if you can compete in any year because you are a cap floor team would constantly suck the life out of you.

Ticket sales/Sellouts: sure it's nice to know you can get tickets for the whole family for under $150 total (see affordability), but it's also nice going to a packed arena and knowing there are a lot of other fans about in the community at large.
I think they have bang-for-buck = wins/affordability because in MLB especially there are teams that just act as glorified farm clubs for the big money franchises. Affordability might be a factor if you are a fan of the visiting team.

I thought that financial stability and payroll would be rolled into ownership, and slightly into title track. Looking at the breakdowns though, it isn't.

Sellouts, arguably should have been a factor in stadium experience, although I agree with you, there should be a fan loyalty column.

Fan relations seems like a weak category to me to equally weigh with the others.

When looking at just NHL teams, all the Canadian teams except Ottawa ranked 23rd or lower. The title track numbers seem to be way out of whack. Only Toronto and Winnipeg rank below Vancouver. I have a hard time seeing Montreal, Edmonton, Ottawa and Calgary having a better shot at a title right now than Vancouver. I suppose that in the lifetime of current fans, Montreal, Edmonton and Calgary have won cups, but what happened in the 80's and early 90's is hardly an indicator of future chances.

OK, now that I look at the breakdowns closer, I think these rankings are biased and skewed and should have more factors built in.

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09-08-2012, 08:16 AM
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I think they have bang-for-buck = wins/affordability because in MLB especially there are teams that just act as glorified farm clubs for the big money franchises. Affordability might be a factor if you are a fan of the visiting team.

I thought that financial stability and payroll would be rolled into ownership, and slightly into title track. Looking at the breakdowns though, it isn't.

Sellouts, arguably should have been a factor in stadium experience, although I agree with you, there should be a fan loyalty column.

Fan relations seems like a weak category to me to equally weigh with the others.

When looking at just NHL teams, all the Canadian teams except Ottawa ranked 23rd or lower. The title track numbers seem to be way out of whack. Only Toronto and Winnipeg rank below Vancouver. I have a hard time seeing Montreal, Edmonton, Ottawa and Calgary having a better shot at a title right now than Vancouver. I suppose that in the lifetime of current fans, Montreal, Edmonton and Calgary have won cups, but what happened in the 80's and early 90's is hardly an indicator of future chances.

OK, now that I look at the breakdowns closer, I think these rankings are biased and skewed and should have more factors built in.
When a team that goes 1W 81L with a $1 payroll and has an 18000 seat stadium with only 1 fan per game would win, I think the criteria needs work.

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09-08-2012, 11:16 AM
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It makes sense based on the criteria, but without sounding like a dink, I doubt your average person would consider the Coyotes a better franchise than the Canucks right now.

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09-08-2012, 12:40 PM
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More beer, louder fans!!
It might seem that Rogers Arena is quiet, but don't forget about us, the silent majority of Canucks fans, our fingers flittering dextrously across keyboards worn down by a primal sweat roused inside all of us by fear deep in our proto-simian subconcious; our ears ache from the unrelenting cackle of a million unseen hyenas waiting outside the fire light, anxiously waiting for the Canucks fire to dim, inching ever closer, jaws agape, saliva pooling at their dirty feet; we type faster, and faster, on message boards, texting friends, racing across social media platforms; the keystrikes are a din roar, a rushing stream, an instinctual chant rising defiantly against the savage beasts that would see us fall, torn limb from limb by the powerful jaws of those savage beasts dancing in the rudimentary darkness that surrounds us; we look skyward to the stars likes apes waiting for a descending black obelisk to unshackle us.

The smallest hyena darts in to the fire light. Brad Marchand scores. The fire goes out, the keyboard strikes taper, and the hyenas rush in. A grateful silence descends. We are free.

I guess what I'm saying is you just have to listen a little closer. Happy Saturday everyone!


Last edited by Proto: 09-08-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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09-08-2012, 12:50 PM
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Kind of a head scratcher on these "expert" rankings...
These are not expert ranking though, at least the end ranking is not, these are math and random person driven rankings...which is why you should only look at them as such.

If you objectively look at the Yotes have and the catagories they used, then yes, it is about right that the Yotes are up at the top.

It is also worth noting that the subjective parts, the individual catagories, were actually ranked by fans, not ESPN....with the one exception being the bag for buck catgory which was done by the University of Oregon.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8...-espn-magazine


It is also worth noting that when you tease out individual thoughts and opinions on almost any issue, when you put them back together you often have a different end result big picture choice than you would if you singularly pick at the big picture level.... politics often works this way. If you go through a randomly listed set of questions regarding certain issues, often times the politician that best matches your answers surprises people.


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Old
09-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #24
The Bob Cole
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I like how they're ahead of us on "stadium experience." Half-full arena in the middle of nowhere vs. packed downtown arena in a hockey town? Oh, wait, they've got more guys with t-shirt cannons, guess that gives them the edge.
It has very little to do with fans, from what I understand. They have a much newer arena, therefore there are likely some extra niceties of the stadium. It also includes 'friendliness' of environment... which if you've ever been to a game in Vancouver (especially as an opposing fan) you'll know it;s a hostile environment. If it makes you feel any better, in their breakdown of of stadium experience, looking at environment, montreal is only 15 overall spots better than us, and 3 spots higher overall in the NHL rankings.

Nothing to get worked up about, you'll always disagree with these studies as no matter what they are subjective. It's hard to make an accurate observation when you aren't a fan of 99.9% of teams. You don't see three quarters of what the team does or the experiences for fans.

Be proud of being a Nucker, don't worry about what others think or 'judge' us as.

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09-08-2012, 06:54 PM
  #25
Wheatley
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
It might seem that Rogers Arena is quiet, but don't forget about us, the silent majority of Canucks fans, our fingers flittering dextrously across keyboards worn down by a primal sweat roused inside all of us by fear deep in our proto-simian subconcious; our ears ache from the unrelenting cackle of a million unseen hyenas waiting outside the fire light, anxiously waiting for the Canucks fire to dim, inching ever closer, jaws agape, saliva pooling at their dirty feet; we type faster, and faster, on message boards, texting friends, racing across social media platforms; the keystrikes are a din roar, a rushing stream, an instinctual chant rising defiantly against the savage beasts that would see us fall, torn limb from limb by the powerful jaws of those savage beasts dancing in the rudimentary darkness that surrounds us; we look skyward to the stars likes apes waiting for a descending black obelisk to unshackle us.

The smallest hyena darts in to the fire light. Brad Marchand scores. The fire goes out, the keyboard strikes taper, and the hyenas rush in. A grateful silence descends. We are free.

I guess what I'm saying is you just have to listen a little closer. Happy Saturday everyone!
Awesome

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