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Brandon Sutter; Linemates and potential offensively

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:21 PM
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hctopcheds11
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Brandon Sutter; Linemates and potential offensively

Haven't talked a ton about Sutter since the trade but I'm really intrigued about the possibility of him developing here. On the Canes board, fans love the guy and their fans always claim that he never got chances to thrive offensively. Interestingly enough, some Canes fans even suggest that he could be a high quality winger due to his speed and ability to use his size along the boards.

Where do you think he fits in short/long term with this team? Does he have 1st PP potential? Is it possible that he could fill a role in the top 6 on the wing?

Just curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Obviously, most people will suggest he's a third line center but I'm intrigued by the possibility of him taking spot shifts with Sid/Geno or possibly getting some PP time. It seems like the tools are there but the opportunity hasn't been. Interested to hear everyone else's thoughts!

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09-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Ogrezilla
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He will definitely be starting out at 3C. It's possible if someone steps up and shows they can handle the 3C spot that he could be given a shot at wing and really do well there. My only real question with your post is saying he can uses his size on the boards. Simply put, he doesn't have size. He's 6'3" 180 lbs.

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09-08-2012, 12:28 PM
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Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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I think we're going to love him because of his work ethic, dedicated defense, and solid offense, but I don't ever expect him to be especially useful as a winger or 1st unit PP option.

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09-08-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He will definitely be starting out at 3C. It's possible if someone steps up and shows they can handle the 3C spot that he could be given a shot at wing and really do well there. My only real question with your post is saying he can uses his size on the boards. Simply put, he doesn't have size. He's like 6'2" 175 lbs soaking wet.
Same size as Wayne Simmonds, and he does pretty well.

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09-08-2012, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He will definitely be starting out at 3C. It's possible if someone steps up and shows they can handle the 3C spot that he could be given a shot at wing and really do well there. My only real question with your post is saying he can uses his size on the boards. Simply put, he doesn't have size. He's 6'3" 180 lbs.
Size meaning reach, keeping possession, driving to the net etc.

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09-08-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I think we're going to love him because of his work ethic, dedicated defense, and solid offense, but I don't ever expect him to be especially useful as a winger or 1st unit PP option.
You are probably right but it's interesting that a lot of canes fans have suggested there could be more there.

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09-08-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Same size as Wayne Simmonds, and he does pretty well.
But "using his size" is a strange way to put it. Both would be considered undersized for the type of game they play. Semantics. I'm weird.

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09-08-2012, 12:36 PM
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But "using his size" is a strange way to put it. Both would be considered undersized for the type of game they play. Semantics. I'm weird.
See above

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09-08-2012, 12:40 PM
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fair enough.

Really, I would need to see him a lot more than I have to know how he projects to be a wing. I just think Shero and Bylsma both want to build the centers first and fill in around them. That puts him firmly in the 3C spot unless Jeffrey can really step up in a big way.

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09-08-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fair enough.

Really, I would need to see him a lot more than I have to know how he projects to be a wing. I just think Shero and Bylsma both want to build the centers first and fill in around them. That puts him firmly in the 3C spot unless Jeffrey can really step up in a big way.
I guess it depends. Anything can happen really but he has a lot of attributes you'd look for in a quality winger. I think unfortunately/fortunately depending on how you look at it, this team is very stuck in the "3 Center mold". I'm personally okay with it but if Sutter gets opportunities with our two studs and excels, its much easier to get a quality 3LC then a top 6 winger.

Again the reason I'm intrigued by it is because the fan base that has watched him the past few seasons has some fans who really think he could be a quality winger/could excel with more opportunity.

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09-08-2012, 12:50 PM
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Can't wait to see what Staal does this season!!! oh wait....

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09-08-2012, 12:58 PM
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I guess it depends. Anything can happen really but he has a lot of attributes you'd look for in a quality winger. I think unfortunately/fortunately depending on how you look at it, this team is very stuck in the "3 Center mold". I'm personally okay with it but if Sutter gets opportunities with our two studs and excels, its much easier to get a quality 3LC then a top 6 winger.

Again the reason I'm intrigued by it is because the fan base that has watched him the past few seasons has some fans who really think he could be a quality winger/could excel with more opportunity.
Ya I really haven't watched him enough. If he manages to show he can be a good top 6 winger, it definitely makes more sense to bring in a 3C and move Sutter up. The only way I really see him getting that chance is if we get some top 6 wing injuries.

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09-08-2012, 01:00 PM
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18 goals
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primarily with Kennedy & Cooke

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09-08-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
But "using his size" is a strange way to put it. Both would be considered undersized for the type of game they play. Semantics. I'm weird.
They are both "lean" for their height, but they are also still young guys. I'm sure Sutter and Simmonds will both bulk up some more eventually

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09-08-2012, 01:26 PM
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TSN showed some clips of Jordan Staal skating with his brother and a bunch of others Canes and it infuriated me.

Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.

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09-08-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
TSN showed some clips of Jordan Staal skating with his brother and a bunch of others Canes and it infuriated me.

Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.
I think Staal has 1C upside. Sutter 2C upside. The latter fitting in behind Sid/Geno better longterm as a shutdown C.

If Dumoulin and Pouliot reach their potential, we win the deal IMO.

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09-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
TSN showed some clips of Jordan Staal skating with his brother and a bunch of others Canes and it infuriated me.

Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.
Yeah its very frustrating. Especially since we are in a win now mode & the other key part of the deal won't be ready for years. It wasn't a bad deal but given our situation now it wasn't an ideal one.

Sutter is going to be a 3rd line center & that's fine. He just needs to play well defensively & contribute here & there. If by some miracle he does turn into a great offensive player we are in the same situation as when we started with Staal.

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09-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.
But our options were limited. He'd have been lost for nothing next summer, and everyone knew he wanted to go to Carolina. Given the circumstances we got a great return for him. Of course we could've used the 8th overall better but that's not part of the trade anymore.

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09-08-2012, 02:35 PM
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I'm hoping its Tangradi and TK. Its a little bit of a war pig line with Sutter and TK being an active grating pair around Tangradi. With those two doing so much work 'gradi and go to the net, simplify his game and put in garbage like Ladd or Malone do.

I actually like Sutters offense and think its an under rated part of his game. If he can be the RHed shot on the PP I don't think 25-25 is out of the question.

I also really like his sense and think its good enough to adapt to wing. If he can be a RHed, RW version of Kunitz to play with Sid that top 6 is looking really elite.

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09-08-2012, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal
That doesn't really apply, though, when you have to trade a player or risk losing him for nothing in a year.

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Old
09-08-2012, 03:28 PM
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brandon seems to be the only 2nd generation sutter to be taking a regular nhl shift. so if he thrives too much in the 3c role and demands a more prominent role, ray will have more trade options.

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09-08-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
TSN showed some clips of Jordan Staal skating with his brother and a bunch of others Canes and it infuriated me.

Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.
I think Sutter's going to be a better fit in the 3rd line role here than Staal was at the end (in spite of his improved offense). He'll have a defined role, and his game is contingent on doing grunt work every single shift, something that Staal really didn't do.

Sutter won't have Staal's offense, but he'll be a cost-controlled 3rd line center who should probably net ~40 points and provide great defense for the foreseeable future. We also opened up significant cap space to make some upgrades in areas where we really need it. If we had retained Staal, we'd basically have to be resigned to the fact that we were never going to have more than one great winger at a time over the course of Malkin and Crosby's careers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
You are probably right but it's interesting that a lot of canes fans have suggested there could be more there.
Oh, I think there could be more. I wouldn't be shocked if someday Sutter flirted with 50 points. I just don't think it'll be on account of 1st unit PP time or playing as a winger.

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09-08-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
TSN showed some clips of Jordan Staal skating with his brother and a bunch of others Canes and it infuriated me.

Anytime you give up the best player in a trade you typically come out on the losing end of the deal and Staal was easily the best player in his swap. I know we got some good pieces, but I have a feeling this won't be a great deal for us long term. Hope I'm wrong though.
But when you consider that pretty much the entire league knew that Staal was a year from walking away and signing with Carolina for nothing at all, we did pretty damn well.

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Old
09-08-2012, 07:42 PM
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I expect 50 goals and 70 assists. Anything less and he's going on The List.

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Old
09-08-2012, 07:47 PM
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That doesn't really apply, though, when you have to trade a player or risk losing him for nothing in a year.
Agreed. Ray Shero had 2 options.

Staal for a year then have Dustin Jeffrey or a UFA as 3rd line center.

or...

Brandon Sutter as 3rd line center, plus the additions of Derrick Pouliot and Brian Dumoulin to our prospect pool.

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