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Old
09-09-2012, 05:52 PM
  #1
schneider3509
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van-phi-fla

My trades were supposedly not very reliastic so here's another try. This helps all teams in my opinion.

Van receives
Read
Talbot
Rinaldo

Philadelphia receives
Ballard
1st 2013
Hansen
Raymond

This helps Philadelphia because there d is decimated and they receive Ballard who will play top 4 minutes and they also receive a 1st
and they receive a b level prospect and Raymond a inconsistent 20 goal scorer.

Canucks receive a young 25 goal scorer in read and they also receive Talbot and a solid 4th liner in Rinaldo.

Then trade luongo and a 2nd 2013 to Florida for howden and matthias

New nucks lines

Twins read
Booth kes bur
Matthias Talbot Higgins
Kassian lapierre Rinaldo
Howden
Malhotra

Hammer juice
Edler garrison
Tanev alberts

Schiends
Lack

These proposals help all teams. Read had one good here so he could be the next Raymond don't overvalue him.

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09-09-2012, 05:53 PM
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Bryzard of Oz
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That's awful for the Flyers.

Panthers say no too

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Old
09-09-2012, 05:57 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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Vancouver says no to both. Look, maybe, since you're new, you can browse around other trade proposals, see what kind of feedback they get, and use that to get a sense of what teams want and how players are valued.

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09-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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schneider3509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Vancouver says no to both. Look, maybe, since you're new, you can browse around other trade proposals, see what kind of feedback they get, and use that to get a sense of what teams want and how players are valued.
Ok veteran what can lou fetch

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #5
ColePens
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You are trying very very very hard to make these huge trades work and it's not that easy. These are just huge NHL '13 or fantasy trades and not realistic to help every team. That's why we don't see huge trades like this. It's just not realistic.

Every team says no.

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #6
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiends35 View Post
Ok veteran what can lou fetch
2nd = Matthias
Luongo >> Howden

And the Philadelphia trade seems like a lot of pieces bouncing around for no reason. Hansen is a perfect third liner for us, we need our 1st to help kee us competitive unless it's in a package for a significant upgrade, and we really shouldn't be trading bot Ballard and Raymond while both their values are at an all-time low.

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09-09-2012, 06:04 PM
  #7
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Ballard's salary going to Philly makes no sense - as was posted the last time you made a Ballard/Read proposal.

Raymond's also got very little value - just like Ballard right now.

How is Philly going to add the approx. $5mill in cap hit in this deal? And why would they give any value to Sauve? They have plenty of prospect dmen in their system already.

As was said last time you proposed a similar deal, the Flyers aren't going to deal a very cheap versatile forward for an expensive dman who's value is near rock-bottom.

Ballard won't be moved anywhere because a) his value is very low and Gillis isn't one to buy high and sell low, b) he carries a $4.2mill cap hit - and with the uncertainty of the CBA and his underachieving performances, what team is going to want that? And c) he has a fit in Vancouver. He is NEEDED to fill a hole on his natural side next to a rookie dman who's shown chemistry next to him. There is no one else in the system who has proven capable of filling that role on a contending team - and no Alberts/Sauve/Connauton are not the answer here.

Finally, given everything we know about Gillis and all the moves he's made since coming here (note specifically his focus on depth on defense, carrying 8 NHL experienced dmen the last several years, and his reluctance of pushing untested rookies into full-time roles too soon), do you really think that Gillis is even considering moving Ballard at all?

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:04 PM
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schneider3509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You are trying very very very hard to make these huge trades work and it's not that easy. These are just huge NHL '13 or fantasy trades and not realistic to help every team. That's why we don't see huge trades like this. It's just not realistic.

Every team says no.
If holmgren can trade Carter and Richards in a couple of hours he can trade these guys for d help

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09-09-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
Ballard's salary going to Philly makes no sense - as was posted the last time you made a Ballard/Read proposal.

Raymond's also got very little value - just like Ballard right now.

How is Philly going to add the approx. $5mill in cap hit in this deal? And why would they give any value to Sauve? They have plenty of prospect dmen in their system already.

As was said last time you proposed a similar deal, the Flyers aren't going to deal a very cheap versatile forward for an expensive dman who's value is near rock-bottom.

Ballard won't be moved anywhere because a) his value is very low and Gillis isn't one to buy high and sell low, b) he carries a $4.2mill cap hit - and with the uncertainty of the CBA and his underachieving performances, what team is going to want that? And c) he has a fit in Vancouver. He is NEEDED to fill a hole on his natural side next to a rookie dman who's shown chemistry next to him. There is no one else in the system who has proven capable of filling that role on a contending team - and no Alberts/Sauve/Connauton are not the answer here.

Finally, given everything we know about Gillis and all the moves he's made since coming here (note specifically his focus on depth on defense, carrying 8 NHL experienced dmen the last several years, and his reluctance of pushing untested rookies into full-time roles too soon), do you really think that Gillis is even considering moving Ballard at all?
Why wouldn't he consider moving Ballard he has a 4.2 million dollar cap and he is a 3rd pairing dman or a healthy scratch

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09-09-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Schiends35 View Post
If holmgren can trade Carter and Richards in a couple of hours he can trade these guys for d help
Think of it this way. When's the last time you've seen a 3 way trade that has 8 differen't players involved?

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09-09-2012, 06:14 PM
  #11
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiends35 View Post
Why wouldn't he consider moving Ballard he has a 4.2 million dollar cap and he is a 3rd pairing dman or a healthy scratch
Because you don't win games with empty cap space!

The Canucks have the cap space to keep Ballard. He is also needed here, as he is the BEST option - BY FAR - to play the 3rd pairing left side. He also has played next to Tanev successfully in the past and Tanev is coming into his first year here as a full-time player. They also lost Rome and Salo, and only added 1 dman (Garrison) to replace both. If Ballard is dealt, it moves Alberts into his spot, leaves the team with no experience at all behind him, while already carrying a rookie as a regular. Does that sound like Gillis to you?

And he hasn't been a healthy scratch since his first year here. Most of Ballard's problems came from learning the system and playing out of position (on the right side). He's played his best hockey here while playing the left side, and particularly next to Tanev.

Gillis isn't going to deal Ballard because he knows he's needed, he knows that his cap hit fits here, he knows that he's had success playing next to Tanev, he knows that he's got no options behind him if he's moved, and he knows his value is crap right now, where he has a much better chance at providing a bigger impact here than whatever return he can get in a trade for him.

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:14 PM
  #12
schneider3509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Think of it this way. When's the last time you've seen a 3 way trade that has 8 differen't players involved?
It's not a three way one with flyers and one with Florida

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:16 PM
  #13
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Philly says no quite easily.

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09-09-2012, 06:49 PM
  #14
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I'm just going to assume Schiends = Schneider.

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Old
09-09-2012, 07:30 PM
  #15
sobrien
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I'll address your other trade here as well. As it's been mentioned already, Briere isn't going anywhere, and you're in for a surprise if you think he's a playmaker. Philly's D isn't as weak as you said in the 1st proposal (though Edler is an upgrade over everyone), but for this one...Ballard won't play top 4 minutes. Grossmann, Coburn, Schenn, and Timonen all start over him.

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Old
09-09-2012, 07:39 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiends35 View Post
My trades were supposedly not very reliastic so here's another try. This helps all teams in my opinion.

Van receives
Read
Talbot
Rinaldo

Philadelphia receives
Ballard
1st 2013
Hansen
Raymond

This helps Philadelphia because there d is decimated and they receive Ballard who will play top 4 minutes and they also receive a 1st
and they receive a b level prospect and Raymond a inconsistent 20 goal scorer.

Canucks receive a young 25 goal scorer in read and they also receive Talbot and a solid 4th liner in Rinaldo.

Then trade luongo and a 2nd 2013 to Florida for howden and matthias

New nucks lines

Twins read
Booth kes bur
Matthias Talbot Higgins
Kassian lapierre Rinaldo
Howden
Malhotra

Hammer juice
Edler garrison
Tanev alberts

Schiends
Lack

These proposals help all teams. Read had one good here so he could be the next Raymond don't overvalue him.
You are becoming one of my favourite posters in the trade forums. You and a few others like Spitsfan, MintoMadDogKiller, and weak5holeguy pretty much ensure a good laugh of a trade. I like how you use nicks names like "Juice", it adds a nice ring to a ludicrous deal by adding ludicrous names.

To speak of the actual "trades", well where to begin? Other posters have said very clearly of why would Philly take on all that salary? You have brought up Carter and Richards trade, but remember in both trades Philly shed salary and didn't take on upwards of 5 million. Another valid point made is Ballard and Raymond's value as of right now are low. How low? I would be hard pressed to believe any team, even if they were desperate, would offer more than a 2nd round pick for Ballard and a 3rd for Raymond. Sounds ridiculous, but that's how low their values are right now. At that point Vancouver would be better suited holding on to both and having them hopefully have a bounce back season. Philly has no reason to trade to take on salary, and trade players that they are happy with.

The Florida trade...man...there are hundreds of threads, tens of thousands posts, all of which discuss/argue/rant/debate Lou's value. Now this is my opinion and I've seen few Canucks fans agree but fair value as of right now would be a Serviceable roster player, mid level prospect, and 2nd round pick (draft pick moves around depending on the prospect and player). Seems low? Well that is the point. For a team like Florida to acquire Lou doesn't make too much sense. If they do, they end up like Vancouver now. They have Markstrom coming and Florida fans are saying they are happy waiting for him and running Theodore until then. Lou's value will be argued until a trade does happened. Until then both sides make valid points.

You should be a little grateful too that people are going easy on you and sitting you down like a child and explaining where you are going wrong. Most times in this situation you would be flamed to death. But people are taking time to explain so you don't make the same mistake again.

You're welcome.

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Old
09-09-2012, 08:37 PM
  #17
Beezeral
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Originally Posted by Schiends35 View Post
Ok veteran what can lou fetch
you are new here. Maybe you should spend some time in the Canucks board and browsing other proposal threads. Maybe then you will figure out how things work here.

99/100 times an OP that is a massive blockbuster like all of your proposals will get quickly shot down or laughed at. While this board is 99% garbage proposals to begin with, that doesn't make it ok for you to drop 4 terrible proposals in a weekend. Some of us do want to have rational conversation with other posters concerning rumored trades/signings

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