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Old
09-09-2012, 04:37 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan02190 View Post
The Cap hit for low-market teams whose (selfish) owners would rather take the cap hit, than to pay it to a player.
Why would a owner want to "take a cap hit"? I'll assume you mean that there are teams below the floor who will want to reach the floor by adding Thomas' 5m hit. Ok but:

1) Nobody knows what the floor will be under the new cap, and there's an excellent chance it will be lower than the projected 54.2. It's a very really probability that all teams currently "under" the floor will be over it automatically when the CBA is signed.

2) Ok, let's assume the floor remains 54.2. The vast majority of the "under" teams are only under because they are waiting for the new CBA to sign their own players. Would Winnipeg rather not pay Thomas 3m to sit at home or pay Evander Kane 5m to play? Hmm, let me think. Almost every single team below the floor will be above it when they resign their own core RFAs.

3) 2 teams might be below the floor at that point: Phoenix and the Isles. But Phoenix is rumored to be resigning Shane Doan. That move puts them pretty close to the current floor with only a couple of minor tweaks to make. For the Isles they have 2 roster spots open. Say Ryan Strome and Brock Nelson make the team (or Griffin Reinhart or Calvain De Haan or any other rookie with a decent cap hit).... cap floor reached.


Sure, these teams COULD take Thomas, but why should they unless there's something in it for them?

I'll say it again: Boston desires Thomas off their cap more than any team in the NHL desires Thomas on their cap. Period. In order to get a team to take someone it doesn't want you'll have to give a sweetener.

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Old
09-09-2012, 04:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
Not all of us are upset with him for expressing his political views after winning us a cap. Only the Liberals.

Edit: Arrogant in expressing his opinion, lol. Consider what your saying. Ohh the irony.
I was more offended by Lucic saying "Don't you know who I am?" to a cop than by anything Thomas said.

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09-09-2012, 05:30 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
Not all of us are upset with him for expressing his political views after winning us a cap. Only the Liberals.

Edit: Arrogant in expressing his opinion, lol. Consider what your saying. Ohh the irony.
He's not arrogant because he's expressing his opinion... I never implied that. In fact, I never even mentioned him expressing his political views.

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09-09-2012, 06:14 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Why would a owner want to "take a cap hit"? I'll assume you mean that there are teams below the floor who will want to reach the floor by adding Thomas' 5m hit. Ok but:

1) Nobody knows what the floor will be under the new cap, and there's an excellent chance it will be lower than the projected 54.2. It's a very really probability that all teams currently "under" the floor will be over it automatically when the CBA is signed.

2) Ok, let's assume the floor remains 54.2. The vast majority of the "under" teams are only under because they are waiting for the new CBA to sign their own players. Would Winnipeg rather not pay Thomas 3m to sit at home or pay Evander Kane 5m to play? Hmm, let me think. Almost every single team below the floor will be above it when they resign their own core RFAs.

3) 2 teams might be below the floor at that point: Phoenix and the Isles. But Phoenix is rumored to be resigning Shane Doan. That move puts them pretty close to the current floor with only a couple of minor tweaks to make. For the Isles they have 2 roster spots open. Say Ryan Strome and Brock Nelson make the team (or Griffin Reinhart or Calvain De Haan or any other rookie with a decent cap hit).... cap floor reached.


Sure, these teams COULD take Thomas, but why should they unless there's something in it for them?

I'll say it again: Boston desires Thomas off their cap more than any team in the NHL desires Thomas on their cap. Period. In order to get a team to take someone it doesn't want you'll have to give a sweetener.
Yes, thank you, I am well-aware of this.

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09-09-2012, 06:22 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucic View Post
He's not arrogant because he's expressing his opinion... I never implied that. In fact, I never even mentioned him expressing his political views.
I agree,

I don't necessarily agree with Thomas' views, but that is not why I was so angry with his statements and the White House incident.

Being part of a team, it is unfair to make drama like that in the locker room. Also, skipping out on a team event shows you aren't committed to the team.

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Old
09-09-2012, 06:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
Don't recall the Malakhov situation, but Thomas is only a caphit, no salary. ... Also, only one year.
This was exactly the Malakhov situation.

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09-09-2012, 06:58 PM
  #57
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Well, if the NHL gets rid of the solid, hard cap and teams can go over a certain amout, the NHLPA might allow a cap floor to go. THere are teams that are still willing to spend 100mill on contracts and other teams that are having trouble making the floor
I don't see it - such an outcome would see the NHL attempt push UFA age back up to 31 or there abouts so the low payroll teams could exploit their drafted players to try and stay competitive. Do we really want to go back to the paritiy via RFA vs parity via the cap floor/ceiling which we have now. I don't and I can't imagine the younger players would either.

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09-09-2012, 07:12 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I was more offended by Lucic saying "Don't you know who I am?" to a cop than by anything Thomas said.
It was revealed a couple days later that he never said that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
This was exactly the Malakhov situation.
What year was this? Some reason I don't remember it at all.

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09-09-2012, 07:47 PM
  #59
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It seems his trade value is contingent on the CBA that is being negotiated. All speculation is based on the CBA and how it will effect the Bruins and specifically TT's cap hit. We don't even know what the ceiling will be or what the floor will be, if there will be one. We don't even know if the cap will be hard or soft. So this thread right now is either hoping the Bruins get screwed or everybody is overreacting! The one thing I am certain is what ever team takes on TT's contract will not toll him if he sits out the year...

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09-09-2012, 09:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ryan02190 View Post
I agree,

I don't necessarily agree with Thomas' views, but that is not why I was so angry with his statements and the White House incident.

Being part of a team, it is unfair to make drama like that in the locker room. Also, skipping out on a team event shows you aren't committed to the team.
No it doesn't.

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
What year was this? Some reason I don't remember it at all.
2006. Here's a link to an article about it.

Devils traded:
- their 1st rounder (conditional: if the Devils made the playoffs, it was their 2007 1st rounder, if not it was their 2008 1st rounder)
- Malakhov (massive cap dump)

to the Sharks for:
- the rights to Alexander Korolyuk (who at the time had already signed with the KHL, everyone knew he wasn't coming back, and his salary was off the books)
- Jeff Fahey (a 7th defenceman on his best day)

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Old
09-10-2012, 09:58 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
Not all of us are upset with him for expressing his political views after winning us a cap. Only the Liberals.

Edit: Arrogant in expressing his opinion, lol. Consider what your saying. Ohh the irony.
You are presuming an awful lot. My 40 year conservative republican stepfather hates Tim Thomas with a passion. He says that what he did was the same as a dirty trick. He thinks Thomas just doesn't want to play with the Bruins any longer and he thinks tea party people are crazy "wacko's".

I, on the other hand, am about as liberal as you can get and am always defending Thomas to him.

So don't speak for me, you don't know what you are talking about.

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09-10-2012, 10:25 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
2006. Here's a link to an article about it.

Devils traded:
- their 1st rounder (conditional: if the Devils made the playoffs, it was their 2007 1st rounder, if not it was their 2008 1st rounder)
- Malakhov (massive cap dump)

to the Sharks for:
- the rights to Alexander Korolyuk (who at the time had already signed with the KHL, everyone knew he wasn't coming back, and his salary was off the books)
- Jeff Fahey (a 7th defenceman on his best day)
There was uncertainty about whether Malakhov would get paid or not after he said he hadn't retired. The Devils tried to suspend him but they would have lost in a grievance. In the end, it looks like SJ paid his salary.

Thomas is a different situation.

Overall, I don't understand the point of this thread. If Thomas says he wants to play he's worth a lot. If it stays as is, he'll be suspended, not paid and his contract probably won't count against the new cap.

For the moment, there are way too many unknowns to make an argument either way.

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Old
09-10-2012, 11:11 AM
  #64
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Headcase refusing to play in his last year on contract. Can't imagine any team wanting him.

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #65
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Bruins hang onto him until he decides he wants to play again (which I think will happen DURING the season, if there is one.)

If Tuukka is struggling or hurt, maybe the Bruins try to force him to play in Boston if he wants to play. More likely, Bruins trade him for something small, but valuable about 1/2 way through the season.

I'm relatively confident that if the cap goes down, there will be a rollback and there is always Savard's LTIR (which I think should be a part of the next CBA either way.) So I don't foresee Thomas' cap hit stopping the Bruins from icing the team they have already assembled.

And I just have to laugh at people talking about how only liberals care about Thomas' actions. It's the opposite. Only conservatives try to defend his actions, which have been selfish, sanctimonious and in some ways, completely absurd. Using family & faith as a cover for not fulfilling a contract. It is what it is. No liberal propaganda necessary to make that seem bad. It takes a lot of conservative propaganda to defend it, however.

He'll be playing by mid-season for a different team of his choosing and the Bruins will get pennies on the dollar because poor Timmy didn't want to honor his contract.

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:26 PM
  #66
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Avalanche do not need cap help. We will be over the cap when O'Reilly signs.

We had a huge thread with Bruins fans trying to get us to trade for Thomas and it did not end well.

Also we're not really a cap floor team, our owner has stated that he is willing to spend money. It just hasn't been the right time in our rebuild to spend big and so we haven't.

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Old
09-10-2012, 06:21 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
You are presuming an awful lot. My 40 year conservative republican stepfather hates Tim Thomas with a passion. He says that what he did was the same as a dirty trick. He thinks Thomas just doesn't want to play with the Bruins any longer and he thinks tea party people are crazy "wacko's".

I, on the other hand, am about as liberal as you can get and am always defending Thomas to him.

So don't speak for me, you don't know what you are talking about.
I believe I do... You may be one of the moderates, who appreciate what he did for the team, but that doesn't excuse the rest. This isn't the first time this happened in MA, but it is the one we made a big deal out of.

Overall the vitriol and lack of appreciation from the fans and media has a negative effect on his value.

(Conservative and hates the tea party... Hmmm)


Chances are right now he has negative value until the new CbA is figured out.


Last edited by GoBs: 09-10-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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09-10-2012, 07:55 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Why would a owner want to "take a cap hit"? I'll assume you mean that there are teams below the floor who will want to reach the floor by adding Thomas' 5m hit. Ok but:

1) Nobody knows what the floor will be under the new cap, and there's an excellent chance it will be lower than the projected 54.2. It's a very really probability that all teams currently "under" the floor will be over it automatically when the CBA is signed.

2) Ok, let's assume the floor remains 54.2. The vast majority of the "under" teams are only under because they are waiting for the new CBA to sign their own players. Would Winnipeg rather not pay Thomas 3m to sit at home or pay Evander Kane 5m to play? Hmm, let me think. Almost every single team below the floor will be above it when they resign their own core RFAs.

3) 2 teams might be below the floor at that point: Phoenix and the Isles. But Phoenix is rumored to be resigning Shane Doan. That move puts them pretty close to the current floor with only a couple of minor tweaks to make. For the Isles they have 2 roster spots open. Say Ryan Strome and Brock Nelson make the team (or Griffin Reinhart or Calvain De Haan or any other rookie with a decent cap hit).... cap floor reached.


Sure, these teams COULD take Thomas, but why should they unless there's something in it for them?

I'll say it again: Boston desires Thomas off their cap more than any team in the NHL desires Thomas on their cap. Period. In order to get a team to take someone it doesn't want you'll have to give a sweetener.
At the trade deadline, Thomas can easily be moved.

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09-10-2012, 08:07 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
At the trade deadline, Thomas can easily be moved.
Only if he is back playing, in which case he fits into Bostons cap anyway. If he is, and he is playing well, and you still trade him- then have a free 1st rounder or player in exchange. You won't be trading him to a cap floor team as they are likely out of contention for the playoffs.

OTOH if he isn't playing he's almost worthless. All teams would be over cap floor already or they wouldn't be allowed to play so a non-playing Thomas cap hit is largely irrelevant at the deadline. The only reason for a floor team to pick up Thomas at the deadline would be if they were dealing away a big salary and not getting any back and that put them below the floor.

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09-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #70
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There was uncertainty about whether Malakhov would get paid or not after he said he hadn't retired. The Devils tried to suspend him but they would have lost in a grievance. In the end, it looks like SJ paid his salary.

Thomas is a different situation.
Nope, Malakhov never got a dime, it's the exact same situation. Malakhov never reported to the Sharks, and thus never got paid, same as Thomas-Bruins (if Thomas doesn't report, as is expected)

From ESPN:
"Oct 3: The Sharks have to pay Malakhov his $3.6 million salary only if he reports to them to play, according to the Newark Star-Ledger. The Sharks have a conditional first-round pick for this year if the Devils make the playoffs and for next year if they do not make the postseason. One of the main reasons San Jose took on Malakhov's salary was that they knew he, in all likelihood, will not report, meaning they won't have to pay him and still get a first-round in either 2007 or 2008. Malakhov has stated this preseason that he has no desire to play and doesn't care about the money."

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Old
09-10-2012, 11:04 PM
  #71
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Why would Boston trade Thomas somewhere he doesn't want to go? He won them a Stanley Cup and you think their going to screw him over and send him to Edmonton?
I don't think Boston really cares.. They have Rask. Peter Chiarelli's job is to make the Bruins the best team he can, not to show respect for an athlete who is opting out of a contract he signed.
Quote:
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Nope, Malakhov never got a dime, it's the exact same situation. Malakhov never reported to the Sharks, and thus never got paid, same as Thomas-Bruins (if Thomas doesn't report, as is expected)
It's not the exact situation. The Devils were over the cap and had to move Malakhov; the Bruins have $1.3m in cap space plus they can put Marc Savard on LTIR.

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09-11-2012, 01:17 AM
  #72
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It's not the exact situation. The Devils were over the cap and had to move Malakhov; the Bruins have $1.3m in cap space plus they can put Marc Savard on LTIR.
Well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as far as the organizational needs are concerned, I was more pointing out that the contract situations are the same, since that's what I thought I was defending. Should have been a bit clearer on that, my bad.

Also:
1) The Bruins have $1.3 mil cap space NOW. Who knows what they'll have when the new CBA is signed. They are the highest cap team ATM, and if there isn't a salary rollback to go along with the expected cap reduction, Boston WILL be in a '06-New Jersey-esque scenario in which they need to dump cap. It's a wait-and-see game at the moment, but there is most certainly, at the very least, a chance that they'll be over the cap once the new CBA is signed. It's a possibility, for sure.

2) That's not how LTIR works (re: Savard). LTIR means you can SUBSTITUTE the amount of salary that was going to go towards the LTIR player towards another player, but putting a player on LTIR doesn't make the cap hit "dissappear". For example, Boston can put Savard on LTIR and "replace" his $4mil salary with another player who makes up to $4mil (trade for a $4 mil center, sign a UFA to a contract worth up to $4mil, etc...)... but the Bruins can't just slice $4 mil off their cap hit by putting Savard on LTIR without replacing him. They still get dinged the $4mil cap hit, they just are allowed another "free $4mil of cap space" to replace that player.

If the Bruins had a ~$68.8mil cap hit today, and put Savard on LTIR tomorrow, they'd still be at $68.8mil on their cap hit, they'd just be allowed a "bonus" $4mil. If the Bruins were at a ~68.8mil cap hit, and the cap ceiling was $65mil, LTIR-ing Savard would still leave them at the same ~$68.8mil cap they were at before.

Teams can't duck under the cap ceiling by LTIR-ing players. Admittedly, that could change in the new CBA, but I doubt it.


Last edited by BonkTastic: 09-11-2012 at 01:23 AM.
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Old
09-11-2012, 02:49 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
TT said he doesn't want to play hockey this year, regardless of it being with the Bruins or someone else, correct? I was under the impression he was taking a year off from playing. Sure he doesn't want to be a Bruin but he's not holding out because of it. At least that was my impression. If that is the case, no team is going to pay a "nice price" for someone who doesn't want to play this year and who hasn't trained this summer. Also, how many years does he really have left, even if he does come back? Isn't he in his late 30's? He also only has the one year left on his contract. The odds are stacked on the Bruins side for sure. Remember, there's a pretty good goalie named Luongo out there who hasn't been traded yet and who wants to play hockey this year.
Thomas is training. He has every intention of playing goal for USA at the next Olympics.

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09-12-2012, 07:46 PM
  #74
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Only if he is back playing, in which case he fits into Bostons cap anyway. If he is, and he is playing well, and you still trade him- then have a free 1st rounder or player in exchange. You won't be trading him to a cap floor team as they are likely out of contention for the playoffs.

OTOH if he isn't playing he's almost worthless. All teams would be over cap floor already or they wouldn't be allowed to play so a non-playing Thomas cap hit is largely irrelevant at the deadline. The only reason for a floor team to pick up Thomas at the deadline would be if they were dealing away a big salary and not getting any back and that put them below the floor.
Let's just say the the Flames are out of the playoff picture and wanted to trade Bouwmeester but don't want anything but picks and prospects in return. The Bruins would be able to package the prospects and picks and tell the Flames that they had to take Thomas.

Thomas would cost the Flames $0....And the flames may also be able to trade his rights prior to JULY 1st, if their is still a market.

The point is Thomas not playing is just a name to a team under the cap. no salary involved.

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09-12-2012, 08:40 PM
  #75
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Saw the thread and thought to myself and first thought "Oh look, its this thread from 2 months ago bumped again", then looked at the OP's post and saw it was made 3 days ago and thought "Oh, its a new Tim Thomas thread, no way Colorado can be listed as a potential destination right...."

Unfortunatly I was wrong.

Dont see how the Avs are, first of all a Low market team. Its been said over and over again that the Greg Sherman has been given the green light to spend however much he wants, he's simply waiting for the new CBA so the Avs dont get screwed like we did after the last lockout, were certainly not a low market team....

Also, were no were near the cap floor. We already have like 53M signed in players, and we still have Oreilly to sign, so we'll be around 56-58M once Oreilly signs, and once the new CBA is agreed upon, that could potentially be right at the Salary Cap, nowhere near the floor.

Tim Thomas will not be a member of the Colorado Avalanche, ever again.

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