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09-08-2012, 12:37 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Ha. No illusions to demolish. How many DEL players were drafted by the NHL? 5%? There are beer league rosters in the US with much higher percentages than that. Some may say those aren't true beer leagues, given the talent, but the guys aren't getting paid, and they do drink beer afterwards
I think the bigger point is the whole professional athlete in shape versus retired guy that isn't in peak form. Now maybe some of these guys are still young, but for instance do you think the Red Wings alumni team could beat an ECHL team or heck even a B1G hockey team? Chances are pretty slim although maybe the winter classic team would of course half those guys and the couple big reasons wouldn't beer league they are above it. You think Fedorov would do it?

I understand this league your in has good players and they would thrash a lot of teams. Heck they could beat a DEL team if a bunch of games were played. I think you are way underselling game shape though in this instance. Also the factor age plays and the toll it takes on skills. I have played with and against Gary Suter a couple times over the last decade his hands and vision are still there, he isn't exactly a scary player though anymore, you can beat him wide and do all sorts of things that would have been near impossible when he was playing or maybe his first couple years retired.

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09-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I think the bigger point is the whole professional athlete in shape versus retired guy that isn't in peak form. Now maybe some of these guys are still young, but for instance do you think the Red Wings alumni team could beat an ECHL team or heck even a B1G hockey team? Chances are pretty slim although maybe the winter classic team would of course half those guys and the couple big reasons wouldn't beer league they are above it. You think Fedorov would do it?

I understand this league your in has good players and they would thrash a lot of teams. Heck they could beat a DEL team if a bunch of games were played. I think you are way underselling game shape though in this instance. Also the factor age plays and the toll it takes on skills. I have played with and against Gary Suter a couple times over the last decade his hands and vision are still there, he isn't exactly a scary player though anymore, you can beat him wide and do all sorts of things that would have been near impossible when he was playing or maybe his first couple years retired.
Game shape is certainly a factor. But I don't think former NHLers, or even AHLers, if they're still in their 40s, need to be in prime shape to beat an ECHL or DEL team, no. Maybe Suter hasn't aged well, or got fat, or just chooses not to go at 100% anymore, but I saw an early-40s Bob Probert playing in an elite beer league, and even at that age, roughly 5 years removed from the NHL, he was amazing. Would have been the best player in the DEL, and it would not even be close. There is an elite league near Detroit that ices former NHLers as well, including several Wings (Doug Brown, Slava Kozlov - in the summers). These guys are so far above DELers, talent-wise, that it takes more than being in their 40s and out of prime-shape for a DEL team to be better than them, imo.

These are the only two leagues I know of that are that elite. There may be more somewhere, but not many (there are only so many former pros still playing regularly). These are at the tippy-top of the "beer league" pyramid, and are the only teams that I think would beat DEL or ECHL teams. The other 99.99% of beer league teams in the country would be throttled.

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09-08-2012, 03:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Ha. No illusions to demolish. How many DEL players were drafted by the NHL? 5%? There are beer league rosters in the US with much higher percentages than that. Some may say those aren't true beer leagues, given the talent, but the guys aren't getting paid, and they do drink beer afterwards
There is hundreds of undrafted players that is WELL good enough to destroy any team made up by beer drinking has beens. Imo of course.


Last edited by Tomas W: 09-08-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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09-08-2012, 03:47 PM
  #54
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http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301002066

One of the best NHL teams managing to win in a SO against a DEL team. IMPRESSIVE!

Your beer leaugers would want want to get back to thier wheelchairs if they would try a couple of real games against the DEL teams.

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09-08-2012, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Why do you think guys retire. They retire mainly because they are just a shadow of thier former self. Just look at Modano. Once he was of the most feared goalscores in the world. But at the end (with Detroit) he looked like a 4th liner at best.

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09-08-2012, 06:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
There is hundreds of undrafted players that is WELL good enough to destroy any team made up by beer drinking has beens. Imo of course.
Not in the DEL there aren't.


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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301002066

One of the best NHL teams managing to win in a SO against a DEL team. IMPRESSIVE!
Ah, well that proves it. DEL teams are NHL-caliber. Good find


Quote:
Your beer leaugers would want want to get back to thier wheelchairs if they would try a couple of real games against the DEL teams.
I've never seen any hockey players, including in beer leagues, who use a wheelchair. Perhaps you have some misconceptions about beer leagues


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Why do you think guys retire.
Because they feel they can no longer compete at the NHL level. But that doesn't mean that, immediately upon retirement, they are suddenly worse than DEL players. Except for those DEL teams that have proven they belong in the NHL of course


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They retire mainly because they are just a shadow of thier former self. Just look at Modano. Once he was of the most feared goalscores in the world. But at the end (with Detroit) he looked like a 4th liner at best.
And, yet, Modano would have been the DEL MVP that year, had he been in the league.

In summation, the DEL sucks, and beer leagues rule

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09-08-2012, 09:02 PM
  #57
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I think we need to understand there is a wide variety of skill in "Beer leagues."
You can get a guy like me, who sucks.
Or you can pick up Joey Kocur out of a beer league and win the cup with him.

Joey Kocur wasn't in my beer league.

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09-08-2012, 11:02 PM
  #58
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I can't beleive some of what I'm reading here re: the tier 1 leagues in Europe. I personally know several young, talented, physical specimens who were very effective ECHL and AHL players who either developped a few years late or never completely bloomed into what their respective NHL clubs wanted and eventually said F it to the NA system when they realized the show wasnt happening and got their agents to hook-up more lucrative deals in Europe. Some of them couldnt even cut it at the tier 1 level and were getting NHL call-ups a few seasons ago. Beyond the big ice, softer physicality, fewer games, easier travel schedule, crazy crowds, and sweet sponsor laden jerseys the european leagues are loaded with talent. Not all of it translates to the NHL OBVIOUSLY but if history (especially our own) hasn't taught us that quick footed euros with puck skills CAN sometimes come over and fit wonderfully and have healthy and productive careers then it never will.

End of the day? At the tier 1 level (Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, KHL and to a lesser extent Germany/Austria and Czech) is definitley different hockey over there but certainly NOT out of this world "worse" than the NHL - let alone a discussion involving retired vets who still play pickup to stay in shape.

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09-09-2012, 06:13 AM
  #59
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Good points jroc86. The euro leauges is a bit different from NA hockey. That is why some players that actually really talented in thier own right, does still not fit for the NHL. That's why some players from europe dissapoint. It's not that they're bad players, they just could fit the NHL system (with the loaded game scedule and travel etc).

Jaster you can keep your illusions if you want, I don't really mind. And since there will not be any games between your awsome elite beer leauge and any DEL team, we'll really never ever know for sure who's better than who.


Last edited by Tomas W: 09-09-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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09-09-2012, 01:45 PM
  #60
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I nominate the "my beer league team can beat DEL teams" for the best of the worst posts on HF 2012.

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09-09-2012, 08:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think we need to understand there is a wide variety of skill in "Beer leagues."
You can get a guy like me, who sucks.
Or you can pick up Joey Kocur out of a beer league and win the cup with him.
Exactly. I thought I made that pretty clear, and drove the point home with my 99.99% estimation, but alas, some folks want to stereotype beer leagues into something they are not, necessarily.


Quote:
Joey Kocur wasn't in my beer league.
Probert, Kozlov, and Brown were not in my beer league either. I only wish I were good enough to play in that league.


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I nominate the "my beer league team can beat DEL teams" for the best of the worst posts on HF 2012.
No one said that, but thanks for your insightful contribution.

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09-09-2012, 08:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
Jaster you can keep your illusions if you want, I don't really mind. And since there will not be any games between your awsome elite beer leauge and any DEL team, we'll really never ever know for sure who's better than who.
If neither of us can ever know for sure, then it follows that it can't be an "illusion"

And again, it's not my beer league. My beer league is in the 99.99% I mentioned earlier. We'd be smashed by a DEL team.

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09-10-2012, 09:16 AM
  #63
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First, I have to add another remark backing up the assertion that a quality beer league team could absolutely compete with, if not beat, some of the sub-NHL level pro teams. I don't mean the type of beer leagues I play in either (as others have said), but I have attended games for very high caliber beer leagues with multiple former NHL players and draft picks, and people who played at the college or semi-pro levels.

In a hockey city like Detroit it is amazing how good beer leagues can get. You get former players like Smolinski, Chelios, Hatcher, Brown, etc. living in the area and playing on the regular. People get tipped off about the times these players assemble (to play is by invitation only), and there will be a smattering of spectators in the stands taking it in.

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Probert, Kozlov, and Brown were not in my beer league either. I only wish I were good enough to play in that league.
Same here. However, my dad used to play in a beer league with such regulars as Petr Klima, Robert Picard and Mickey Redmond.

One of my good friends from high school who played goalie at the NCAA level as a walk-on has played with such notables as Al Iafrate and Claude Lemieux of all people (and Lemieux's son who is pretty decent too).

Many players have a real passion for hockey, so I think more than in other sports they continue to play beyond their pro career... and to do it, they seek out beer leagues where they will actually be challenged.

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09-10-2012, 09:57 AM
  #64
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The beer league I play in has several minor league players, few ex Western Michigan players, and here and there we get a couple NHL guys for a couple games.

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