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Old
09-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #26
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96 View Post
I believe that St. Louis holds more value than Boyle. The Lightning would never make this deal. St. Louis is by many accounts the "real" captain of the Lightning. I also think that this "mentoring" concept that I see in so many proposals is a load of nonsense in most cases.
Mats Sundin worked wonders on the Canucks with Kesler and the Sedins.

That MSL holds more value than Boyle may be true, though.

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09-09-2012, 10:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Not trying to sound like a dick, but are you drunk? Maybe that would make sense then.

1) Where would Boyle play? Carle, Salo, Hedman, Brewer as top 4 right now. So does Salo become our number 5? or Carle? Hedman? Brewer? Those are high priced #5 D men.

2) Who is number 1 RW? Purcell? Then who is #2? JT Brown? Benoit Pouliot? Malone? Seriously Marty leaving opens up a huge freaking hole that would cripple us.

3) Marty is the heart and soul of the Bolts. He will retire a Bolt, just like Vinny. Plus he is signed to a great cap hit for what he does.

These are the most glaring reasons. I can't speak for the Sharks, but these are the reasons for us. So no, and if this trade you propose makes sense to you, then don't post any other trades. Stick to what you know, the Canucks.
If Salo is in your top 4 you may be in trouble. The guy has lost a step, even still though he is a top 4 talent. Thing is, he can't be relied upon because he's so fragile. He's a perfect #4-5 guy on a team that has another good 4-5 guy who can fill in for him when injured. Salo will probably play about 60 games next season with no guarantees of being healthy for the playoffs.

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Old
09-09-2012, 10:52 PM
  #28
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I'd definitely do this. Tampa won't though.

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Old
09-09-2012, 10:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I'd definitely do this. Tampa won't though.
What about Boyle + Havlat for MSL + MA Bergeron?

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Old
09-09-2012, 10:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What about Boyle + Havlat for MSL + MA Bergeron?
That is a huge no from the Sharks. I have no interest in Bergeron whatsoever. The difference between Boyle and Bergeron is a lot bigger than the difference between Havlat and MSL.

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09-09-2012, 10:58 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
That is a huge no from the Sharks. I have no interest in Bergeron whatsoever. The difference between Boyle and Bergeron is a lot bigger than the difference between Havlat and MSL.
Alright, just trying to find some middle ground here.

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Old
09-09-2012, 11:25 PM
  #32
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I'd do it, but Tampa needs MSL more than they need Boyle and MSL is more valuable IMO.

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:13 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Hyperbole much.
I really hate the Carle contract. REALLY hate it. I'll give him a chance to see if he can ever live up to it in Tampa, I'm just not at all confident it'll happen.

That being said, this isn't the place to discuss Matt Carle, but my point was that there's no way the Lightning would have given Carle $5.5mil/year just to see them make that signing redundant before Carle ever plays a game with them by bringing in Boyle, while at the same time opening a hole on the wing.

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Old
09-10-2012, 03:48 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I really hate the Carle contract. REALLY hate it. I'll give him a chance to see if he can ever live up to it in Tampa, I'm just not at all confident it'll happen.

That being said, this isn't the place to discuss Matt Carle, but my point was that there's no way the Lightning would have given Carle $5.5mil/year just to see them make that signing redundant before Carle ever plays a game with them by bringing in Boyle, while at the same time opening a hole on the wing.
Then why bring it up by saying:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Yzerman didn't just give Matt Carle one of the biggest contract overpayments ever just to replace him with Boyle.

Awful deal for the Lightning when looking at asset management.
____
Anyways, your main point is right though, Matt Carle is Tampa's #1 PMD now. Boyle is still clearly the better Dman though (obviously). Even if we didn't have Carle I wouldn't want to trade MSL for Boyle (and I'm a huge Boyle fan).

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Old
09-10-2012, 03:53 AM
  #35
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St. Louis will never be traded. I just can't see him putting on another jersey...ever. It would be like us imagining Brodeur in another jersey.

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Old
09-10-2012, 04:36 AM
  #36
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Dan is one of my top three favorite players to ever wear a Lightning sweater and I was furious when the OK Hockey clowns jobbed him the way they did but I would never, ever give up Marty to get him back. Objectively, MSL has more trade value than Dan. Subjectively Marty is not only a Bolt, he's THE Bolt and will be forever.

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Old
09-10-2012, 07:10 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No offense, but Boyle would be a much better mentor for Hedman than Salo, and would also provide a stabilizing presence so Lindback goes from having two of the top 5 defensemen in the league in front of him to the team with the worst GAA in the league last year.
Not going to try and pretend that the Bolts defense wasn't awful last season, but there are a couple of points you're forgetting.

1. This isn't the same defense as last year. Not even close. Salo and Carle in. Gervais and Clark in. Lee for Gilroy at the deadline was an improvement as well.

2. The goaltending was as bad as the defense. Lindback is unproven, but he doesn't have to come in and be a top five goalie right away. All he has to do is be better than Roloson. And for all the grief that Garon gets (and he did deserve it at the beginning of the season), there was a long stretch where he was pretty damn good. If he hadn't gotten injured, the Bolts may have been a playoff team.

Back on topic. Trading MSL is simply a no go. Opens a huge hole on the top six. Purcell is good, but is no Marty. Connolly isn't ready yet, Brown had a whopping five games with the Bolts, so we don't know about him.

Add in the heart and soul factor that Marty brings. He makes everybody around him better, by his play and by the example he provides. No deal for the Lightning.

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Old
09-10-2012, 09:16 AM
  #38
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if this were to actually happen, MSL would instantly become my favorite player on the sharks since owen nolan.

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Old
09-10-2012, 12:25 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What about Boyle + Havlat for MSL + MA Bergeron?
Yuck. That's even worse than the OP.

I'd probably do it (the OP) as a Sharks fan, but it's not as uneven as Bolts fans are making it out to be just because Marty is to the Bolts as Thornton is to the Sharks. MSL is a top-10 RW, Boyle is a top-10 D, both are quite old.

Galiardi-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Marleau-Havlat
Wingels-Couture-St. Louis

That looks like a pretty sexy top-9.

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Old
09-10-2012, 01:18 PM
  #40
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TB wouldn't do this, I understand. But lol at the people using the reasoning of Matt Carle and Brewer making Boyle redundant. Seen them both. Both are not nearly as good as Boyle.

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Old
09-10-2012, 04:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Dan Boyle back to Tampa Bay? I know it's new owners and all, but . . . ..
He still keeps a home here and his wife is from Tampa. Very few people in the front office when Boyle was here are still employed with the Lightning and nobody involved in his trade is still here.

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Old
09-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Mats Sundin worked wonders on the Canucks with Kesler and the Sedins.

That MSL holds more value than Boyle may be true, though.
Mats Sundin is Mats Sundin. Dan Boyle is not even remotely on the same level.

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Old
09-10-2012, 06:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
TB wouldn't do this, I understand. But lol at the people using the reasoning of Matt Carle and Brewer making Boyle redundant. Seen them both. Both are not nearly as good as Boyle.
Not saying Boyle would be redundant, but the gaping hole left by Marty would make the trade redundant. It improves us in one area, weakens us drastically in another. No one is denying Boyle would be of great help, but Marty does much more for the Bolts.

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Old
09-11-2012, 12:50 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post
MSL would look really good with Marleau and Thornton, that's for sure. I'm OK with this.

Marleau - Thornton - MSL
Havlat - Pavelski - Clowe
Wingels - Couture - Galiardi
Burish - Handzus - Desjardins

Burns - Vlasic
Demers - Stuart
Braun - Murray/Petrecki

And we save $1 million off the cap so we can get some more depth at the deadline. Losing Boyle does suck though if Demers can't turn it around this year.
thornton and msl on the same line is a very bad idea imo

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Old
09-11-2012, 01:47 AM
  #45
BonkTastic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Then why bring it up by saying:


____
Anyways, your main point is right though, Matt Carle is Tampa's #1 PMD now. Boyle is still clearly the better Dman though (obviously). Even if we didn't have Carle I wouldn't want to trade MSL for Boyle (and I'm a huge Boyle fan).
Just responding to the "why bring up the overpayment thing":

Because Carle's overpayment is very telling about just how badly Yzerman wanted a PMD on the Bolts (or, more specifically, a PMD whose name isn't Bergeron). Making a move for Boyle right now, especially if the price is MSL, would be almost an admission that the Carle signing was a mistake. I needed to point out the overpayment as one of the main reasons a deal like this would never happen: the optics of it would be slammed by fans & media. By giving Carle that contract, it's very apparent that Yzerman has hung his hat on Carle for the foreseeable future, which is fine if they expect Carle to be "the guy" for them, but not so much if they're willing to bump him down the depth chart at the drop of a hat.

If Yzerman had signed Carle to a $3.5-4 mil deal, then he could bring in Boyle (albeit probably not if the cost was St.Louis, but I think that's been discussed already), and move Carle to the 2nd pairing. But Carle got $5.5 mil. For like 6 years. He's getting paid like a 1st pairing guy (not an elite 1st pairing guy, but a 1st pair guy nonetheless). Right now, IMO, Yzerman has tied his wagon to Carle, and his salary plays a huge part in that. Bringing in Boyle is almost an admission that Carle's contract was a mistake, and GM's usually don't make moves like that before their shiny new UFA has played a game for their team.

Carle getting overpaid is significant, IMO, in any scenario that sees the Bolts trading to acquire a player to replace Carle's spot on the team.

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