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09-10-2012, 03:44 PM
  #101
Ogrezilla
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How is adding a top 6 winger "completely re-designing the team"? I love Shero but he's not exempt of criticism.
I was more referring to people who wanted two top 6 wingers. Which is anyone who wants a top 6 without Dupuis on it. Going from a team build with 3 centers and fill in wings to a team built with two great centers surrounded by great talent is the intended re-design.

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And I don't see how we are a better team going into this season than we were last year... unless you were expecting Sid to never come back in play. We essentially lost Staal and Michalek and gained Sutter, a 4th liner in Glass (and we are hoping that Despres can fill in for Michalek). Anyway you slice I don't see how this is a "better" team than the one that started last year."
we didn't have Sid most of last season. We will this time. Sid, Sutter, Despres, Glass and Tangradi is a better group than Staal, Letestu, Michalek, Park and Sullivan. Oh and Vokoun. We probably take the division if we have Vokoun instead of Johnson last year.

Like I said, we will need to make moves to get to where we were in the playoffs. At least on paper. This team should have a better regular season record than last year's team did though. Considering a game or two could be the difference between Philly/NJ and Ottawa/Florida in the first round, that's a pretty big deal.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 09-10-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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09-10-2012, 03:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I was more referring to people who wanted two top 6 wingers. Which is anyone who wants a top 6 without Dupuis on it.



we didn't have Sid most of last season. We will this time. Sid, Sutter, Despres, Glass and Tangradi is a better group than Staal, Letestu, Michalek, Park and Sullivan.
I think the real question is are we better than the team who just got stomped out in the 1st round:

ADD:
Sutter
Glass
Despres

SUBTRACT:
Staal
Michalek
Sullivan
Park

I think even if your very optimistic, it's hard to say we are much better (which we will need to be) if we are better at all (I feel we are slightly worse).

I think the game is changing too... I really don't think we are going to see as many in-season trades/deadline deals. Good talent is harder to come by. A few years ago, a veteran scorer like Guerin/Roberts got a mid round pick. These days those players are getting 1st's/top prospects. And the good long term options are getting locked up much more often than previous years. That's why offseasons are so critical now... Whether it be through trades or UFA signings.

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09-10-2012, 03:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I think the real question is are we better than the team who just got stomped out in the 1st round:

ADD:
Sutter
Glass
Despres

SUBTRACT:
Staal
Michalek
Sullivan
Park

I think even if your very optimistic, it's hard to say we are much better (which we will need to be) if we are better at all (I feel we are slightly worse).

I think the game is changing too... I really don't think we are going to see as many in-season trades/deadline deals. Good talent is harder to come by. A few years ago, a veteran scorer like Guerin/Roberts got a mid round pick. These days those players are getting 1st's top prospects. And the good long term options are getting locked up much more often than previous years. That's why offseasons are so critical now... Whether it be through trades or UFA signings.
Forgot Vokoun and Tangradi. And hopefully a defensive system that actually works.

We don't need to be a better team on paper to be a better team on the ice.

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09-10-2012, 03:55 PM
  #104
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What upsets me, is the lack of a backup plan. You'd think after Hossa burned us, that he would have been more prepared this time around. We had the cap space and we have some nice assets (prospect wise). Even on the backend, we are a lesser team than last year. After Suter made it clear that he didn't want to play for us (essentially right away), we didn't seem to go to any back up options.
It's been a unique summer in that everything has ground to a halt with CBA looming. I'm fine with Shero not matching the price of a middle-tier UFA (like Bryan Allen getting for about or over $3.5 million for 4 years)....because what happens if the cap is lower than projected? Ownership has a nasty habit of "winning" labor concessions at the beginning of CBA's. Best not to string the salary structure down with the PA Parenteau's of the world when Malkin and Letang are up for new contracts soon.

I'm sure the Pens have a backup plan, they just haven't had the ability to enact it yet. Shero, believe it or not, knows that TK/Tangradi aren't Top 6 options and that he has a hole to fill on defense too. I would expect that happens when business opens up via a trade.

In free agency Shero told Sullivan's camp he should seek other offers and that the Pens weren't going to bring him back. That, to me, signals beyond Parise they had a plan. It's not opening night yet.


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With Sutter as the 3LC, I don't think we will lose a ton... however, that was supposed to be gained and the team was supposed to be better by adding for the 1st time in his career, a long term winger for Sid. Not a complementary type (like a Kunitz or Dupuis) but a guy who can hold on to the puck, snipe or playmake and generally think the game as a go to option for a superstar center.
Jordan Staal's not going to return that. The Canes weren't about to give up Skinner, and he's the only piece they have that's what you describe. Other than that, the trade market for that player was so limited, it's impossible to open it up and think about other teams. No other team would have paid what Carolina did for Staal.

I do agree that they have to trade some of these chips for talent, but as I said, there's just no market for it right now with the CBA storm in full-force and no idea what the atmosphere will be like whenever it finally clears.

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09-10-2012, 03:58 PM
  #105
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Forgot Vokoun and Tangradi. And hopefully a defensive system that actually works.

We don't need a better roster on paper to be a much better team on the ice.
But we had Tangradi last year? Even if he improves, he's likely not going to be an impact player or enough of one to make up the difference.

Vokoun is a good call but if all goes well, he probably won't have to get time when we really need him.

Your 2nd point is fair to a degree but we have the same coaching staff whose been embarrassingly stubborn the last few years. Just don't share your optimism when I look at the roster coupled with our staff that we will be a better team than last year.

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09-10-2012, 03:59 PM
  #106
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We will go into this season with a better team than we went into last season with. We will need to make some moves to get to where we want to be for the playoffs. I think Shero was either going to go really big with Parise/Suter or play it safe due to the CBA questions. If the cap goes down we will be sitting pretty. If it doesn't, we will still be one of the top teams in the east.

As far as not filling out the top 6 with legit top 6 wingers, I don't know how any of you expected that to happen immediately after moving Staal. It is unreasonable to think we can completely redesign the team in one off-season. We aren't the only team who wants top 6 wings. They aren't readily available. We can't just pick them up whenever we need them.
Yeah but we've notoriously been a team that takes a chance on a guy or two with a 1 year contract that may be able to help our top 6 and we didn't do that this year. ****...why couldn't we have brought Steve Sullivan and his 48 points back then. He's clearly not the long-term option but he did what we needed him to and he signed in Phoenix for close to what we paid him last season. In my expert opinion...we should've gone after a Guillame Latendresse or a Mikael Samuelsson a Brad Boyes. We do that every year but we didn't this year for whatever reason. I don't get it.

So I'm half saying "why didn't we acquire a top 6 forward when we dealt away Staal and Michalek" and half saying "why didn't we acquire any options via free agency either". Our roster is worse now than at the same time last year, minus Crosby being healthy. That's it. Our forwards are worse and our defense is worse. We had depth...now we don't.

I hate talking about a "window" but this team has a window and I don't see this team winning a Stanley Cup the way it sits now. I commend Shero for getting the assets he did for Staal, but they're weird assets for this team. All we did is downgrade our 3C (no offense to Sutter but Staal's a beast) and add to our bevvy of defensive prospects. It's weird...that's all. It's pretty clear that that's a step backwards for next season and last time I checked they're still planning on awarding the Stanley Cup to somebody (once this CBA noise gets sorted that is). I want to win that and would have put up with no return for Staal next summer if it meant it increases our odds to win now. But that's just me.

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09-10-2012, 04:03 PM
  #107
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It's been a unique summer in that everything has ground to a halt with CBA looming. I'm fine with Shero not matching the price of a middle-tier UFA (like Bryan Allen getting for about or over $3.5 million for 4 years)....because what happens if the cap is lower than projected? Ownership has a nasty habit of "winning" labor concessions at the beginning of CBA's. Best not to string the salary structure down with the PA Parenteau's of the world when Malkin and Letang are up for new contracts soon.

I'm sure the Pens have a backup plan, they just haven't had the ability to enact it yet. Shero, believe it or not, knows that TK/Tangradi aren't Top 6 options and that he has a hole to fill on defense too. I would expect that happens when business opens up via a trade.

In free agency Shero told Sullivan's camp he should seek other offers and that the Pens weren't going to bring him back. That, to me, signals beyond Parise they had a plan. It's not opening night yet.




Jordan Staal's not going to return that. The Canes weren't about to give up Skinner, and he's the only piece they have that's what you describe. Other than that, the trade market for that player was so limited, it's impossible to open it up and think about other teams. No other team would have paid what Carolina did for Staal.

I do agree that they have to trade some of these chips for talent, but as I said, there's just no market for it right now with the CBA storm in full-force and no idea what the atmosphere will be like whenever it finally clears.
I wasn't referring to Staal to get us that winger. But there are options out there that are intriguing. For instance, the Oilers are a team who are looking for NHL ready defenders. Why not offer one of our prospects or even Michalek before he was dealt for a guy like Paajarvi, who you could buy low on and possibly get you huge dividends. Is a "sexy" trade? No. Is it risky? Could be. But that's the type of player you take a shot on.... Even of he doesn't, we have a defender to spare in our system to say the least. Worse case MPS is an excellent third liner.

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09-10-2012, 04:05 PM
  #108
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But we had Tangradi last year? Even if he improves, he's likely not going to be an impact player or enough of one to make up the difference.
I disagree. You say you want a guy that can hold onto the puck, be a playmaker and think the game with a superstar center. That's what he could potentially be. He obviously could also crash and burn. But if he actually gets comfortable in the NHL and adjusts to the speed he projects to be exactly what we want with Sid. I've seen Tangradi run more give and goes with Sid in a handful of shifts than I have seen Dupuis do in his entire time here. He has the ability. He needs to get rid of the hesitation.

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Vokoun is a good call but if all goes well, he probably won't have to get time when we really need him.
If Fleury played well enough that we didn't need to sign a better backup we probably would have walked through Philly. If we had a backup like Vokoun last year, we would have probably been the first seed in the east and never would have even seen the Flyers. Then who knows what could have happened.

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Your 2nd point is fair to a degree but we have the same coaching staff whose been embarrassingly stubborn the last few years. Just don't share your optimism when I look at the roster coupled with our staff that we will be a better team than last year.
I trust that Shero will not let the staff be embarrassingly stubborn. This same staff has coached a very good defense here just a year ago.

And you're right, I am an optimist through and through.

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09-10-2012, 04:11 PM
  #109
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I wasn't referring to Staal to get us that winger. But there are options out there that are intriguing. For instance, the Oilers are a team who are looking for NHL ready defenders. Why not offer one of our prospects or even Michalek before he was dealt for a guy like Paajarvi, who you could buy low on and possibly get you huge dividends. Is a "sexy" trade? No. Is it risky? Could be. But that's the type of player you take a shot on.... Even of he doesn't, we have a defender to spare in our system to say the least. Worse case MPS is an excellent third liner.
That would be a sexy trade to get a 21 year old former Top 10 pick who has a lot of skills but very little substance and hasn't exactly hit the ground running in the NHL.

How do you know that wasn't considered and was even an option?

Michalek is a defenseman with a price tag for 3 more years, coming off a bad season and just had hip surgery. For a defenseman who is 30 and plays the type of game where he takes a lot of abuse, it's not likely a lot of suitors would have been lined up. I think it's telling that a former team (who knew him and his game) was the one a deal was made with. It's probably because they offered the most value.

And the Pens got a prospect they really liked (who was a 3rd round pick the previous year) and another 3rd round pick. Moving that salary for two #3's is not a negligible return. It's not as flashy as getting a potential Top 6 guy like MPS, but I really, highly doubt that was a possibility to flip a $4 million defensemen coming off a bad season for a 21 year old skillsy near NHL ready player.

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09-10-2012, 04:12 PM
  #110
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Yeah but we've notoriously been a team that takes a chance on a guy or two with a 1 year contract that may be able to help our top 6 and we didn't do that this year. ****...why couldn't we have brought Steve Sullivan and his 48 points back then. He's clearly not the long-term option but he did what we needed him to and he signed in Phoenix for close to what we paid him last season. In my expert opinion...we should've gone after a Guillame Latendresse or a Mikael Samuelsson a Brad Boyes. We do that every year but we didn't this year for whatever reason. I don't get it.

So I'm half saying "why didn't we acquire a top 6 forward when we dealt away Staal and Michalek" and half saying "why didn't we acquire any options via free agency either". Our roster is worse now than at the same time last year, minus Crosby being healthy. That's it. Our forwards are worse and our defense is worse. We had depth...now we don't.

I hate talking about a "window" but this team has a window and I don't see this team winning a Stanley Cup the way it sits now. I commend Shero for getting the assets he did for Staal, but they're weird assets for this team. All we did is downgrade our 3C (no offense to Sutter but Staal's a beast) and add to our bevvy of defensive prospects. It's weird...that's all. It's pretty clear that that's a step backwards for next season and last time I checked they're still planning on awarding the Stanley Cup to somebody (once this CBA noise gets sorted that is). I want to win that and would have put up with no return for Staal next summer if it meant it increases our odds to win now. But that's just me.
We're taking a chance with Tangradi instead of a Sullivan or a Boyes. I would have liked to bring in one more guy to make an actual competition for the 12th/13th forward spots with Adams and Jeffrey, but other than that our depth problem is that we have nobody who is waiver exempt. The problem with a guy like Boyes is if he doesn't work out in the top 6, what does he do? He's not a good bottom 6er. Same with Sullivan.

Basically, Dupuis is better than the guys we could have had for cheap. And it doesn't make sense to sign that kind of guy and have him block Tangradi from getting a shot.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 09-10-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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09-10-2012, 04:14 PM
  #111
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How do you know that wasn't considered and was even an option?

Michalek is a defenseman with a price tag for 3 more years, coming off a bad season and just had hip surgery. For a defenseman who is 30 and plays the type of game where he takes a lot of abuse, it's not likely a lot of suitors would have been lined up. I think it's telling that a former team (who knew him and his game) was the one a deal was made with. It's probably because they offered the most value.

And the Pens got a prospect they really liked (who was a 3rd round pick the previous year) and another 3rd round pick. Moving that salary for two #3's is not a negligible return. It's not as flashy as getting a potential Top 6 guy like MPS, but I really, highly doubt that was a possibility to flip a $4 million defensemen coming off a bad season for a 21 year old skillsy near NHL ready player.
I agree with this. Too many people see us not sign a guy or not trade for a guy and then assume we didn't try to. We can't make guys sign here and we can't make GM's trade with us.

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09-10-2012, 04:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I think the real question is are we better than the team who just got stomped out in the 1st round:

ADD:
Sutter
Glass
Despres

SUBTRACT:
Staal
Michalek
Sullivan
Park

I think even if your very optimistic, it's hard to say we are much better (which we will need to be) if we are better at all (I feel we are slightly worse).

I think the game is changing too... I really don't think we are going to see as many in-season trades/deadline deals. Good talent is harder to come by. A few years ago, a veteran scorer like Guerin/Roberts got a mid round pick. These days those players are getting 1st's/top prospects. And the good long term options are getting locked up much more often than previous years. That's why offseasons are so critical now... Whether it be through trades or UFA signings.
But that's not the right question to ask unless you forget than we can make trades throughout the season. The correct question, as my alter ego Ogrezilla points out is whether or not we are a better team to begin the year and I'd say we are. Add to that we have much more organizational depth in the prospect pool and more cap space (depending on the CBA). Given these thoughts, it is very reasonable to think we will swing a trade for a top 6 wing before the playoffs.

To your point about the mid season transactions changing, I agree on some level. However, the beauty in this is that a guy like Despres or Dumoulin could make Martin or Niskanen expendable. Or conversely, Bortuzzo proves to be a solid number 5 this year and we add a mid pick to him for a rental winger. The point is, there are options and we have time.

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09-10-2012, 04:30 PM
  #113
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That would be a sexy trade to get a 21 year old former Top 10 pick who has a lot of skills but very little substance and hasn't exactly hit the ground running in the NHL.

How do you know that wasn't considered and was even an option?

Michalek is a defenseman with a price tag for 3 more years, coming off a bad season and just had hip surgery. For a defenseman who is 30 and plays the type of game where he takes a lot of abuse, it's not likely a lot of suitors would have been lined up. I think it's telling that a former team (who knew him and his game) was the one a deal was made with. It's probably because they offered the most value.

And the Pens got a prospect they really liked (who was a 3rd round pick the previous year) and another 3rd round pick. Moving that salary for two #3's is not a negligible return. It's not as flashy as getting a potential Top 6 guy like MPS, but I really, highly doubt that was a possibility to flip a $4 million defensemen coming off a bad season for a 21 year old skillsy near NHL ready player.
You focused in on the Michalek and the assumption that it was just a 1 for 1 trade. It's not rocket science that the Oilers need top 4 defenders or prospects that are close to top 4 defenseman. Guys like Michalek, Despres, Morrow and Doum all fit this bill. It's strength for strength (the Oilers are very strong on the wings while we have great D prospects). I don't see how it's so unreasonable to think that a deal could be there.

Maybe Shero did make an offer and maybe the Oil doesn't want to trade him. But that's one example that I thought of in thinking about it for about 2 minutes. There are options our there and players could be had. Shero can be conservative at times and I think he could've been much more aggressive this summer with players like Nash, Ryan, Ott, Foligno who were at times either available or traded who could've made this team better. Even the Nash deal doesn't "wow" me by any means. Do you really think the Penguins couldn't come up with a package in the vicinity of Dubinsky, Anismov, Erixon and a 1st? It's easy to make excuses and say well we didn't have the pieces or how do you know Shero didn't make an offer but it's not like 1 or 2 players were available. There were a few and we didn't get them anyway you slice it.

And I'm sorry but I still don't buy the "that's all we could get" for Michalek argument. I look at the trade and think of two things: 1. Shero simply trying to get the cap space to sign the two big guys a week later and 2. That PHX is where Michalek wanted to play and Shero wanted to take care of one of his players. All the sudden Pens fans think ZM sucks but that wasn't the case when he was here and it certainly wasn't the reaction of our fanbase when the trade was made.

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09-10-2012, 04:38 PM
  #114
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But that's not the right question to ask unless you forget than we can make trades throughout the season. The correct question, as my alter ego Ogrezilla points out is whether or not we are a better team to begin the year and I'd say we are. Add to that we have much more organizational depth in the prospect pool and more cap space (depending on the CBA). Given these thoughts, it is very reasonable to think we will swing a trade for a top 6 wing before the playoffs.

To your point about the mid season transactions changing, I agree on some level. However, the beauty in this is that a guy like Despres or Dumoulin could make Martin or Niskanen expendable. Or conversely, Bortuzzo proves to be a solid number 5 this year and we add a mid pick to him for a rental winger. The point is, there are options and we have time.
You answered your own post in the way I would have. I think the trade deadline is going to continue to cost GM's more and more and we've seen that in recent years. Think about what we paid for when we got guys like Guerin/Roberts and what they would get these days. A few years ago, Hossa/Kovalchuk/Campbell were traded at the deadline. The last few years, guys like Dustin Penner/Paul Gaustad were headliners. It's a changing market and teams know they might have to overpay to keep high end talent, so they'd rather do that then lose them unless a team will significantly overpay (see Paul Gaustad).

And again, how are we a better team to start the year unless you DIDN'T think Sid was going to come back at some point and play with us? So then ask this question add Sid to start last years team, and then look at the rosters. Are we really a "better" team? I just don't see it...

So can we get better? Absolutely but it's going to cost way more than it would've this offseason.

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09-10-2012, 04:40 PM
  #115
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You focused in on the Michalek and the assumption that it was just a 1 for 1 trade. It's not rocket science that the Oilers need top 4 defenders or prospects that are close to top 4 defenseman. Guys like Michalek, Despres, Morrow and Doum all fit this bill. It's strength for strength (the Oilers are very strong on the wings while we have great D prospects). I don't see how it's so unreasonable to think that a deal could be there.
Shero wanted to make the cap space for Parise; that is very clear. I don't think its unreasonable to think Shero just isn't interested in any of the low cost wingers they would potentially have available.

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Maybe Shero did make an offer and maybe the Oil doesn't want to trade him. But that's one example that I thought of in thinking about it for about 2 minutes. There are options our there and players could be had. Shero can be conservative at times and I think he could've been much more aggressive this summer with players like Nash, Ryan, Ott, Foligno who were at times either available or traded who could've made this team better. Even the Nash deal doesn't "wow" me by any means. Do you really think the Penguins couldn't come up with a package in the vicinity of Dubinsky, Anismov, Erixon and a 1st? It's easy to make excuses and say well we didn't have the pieces or how do you know Shero didn't make an offer but it's not like 1 or 2 players were available. There were a few and we didn't get them anyway you slice it.
No we couldn't. We do not have expendable, young NHL experienced forwards that Columbus flat out said they required. We don't have a spare number 2 center to get Ryan which they also flat out said they required. And I don't see how Ott or Foligno are relevant since neither is a better top 6 option than what we already have. Ribiero wasn't going to help us.

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And I'm sorry but I still don't buy the "that's all we could get" for Michalek argument. I look at the trade and think of two things: 1. Shero simply trying to get the cap space to sign the two big guys a week later and 2. That PHX is where Michalek wanted to play and Shero wanted to take care of one of his players. All the sudden Pens fans think ZM sucks but that wasn't the case when he was here and it certainly wasn't the reaction of our fanbase when the trade was made.
I agree with this one. Strange situation.

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09-10-2012, 04:41 PM
  #116
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You answered your own post in the way I would have. I think the trade deadline is going to continue to cost GM's more and more and we've seen that in recent years. Think about what we paid for when we got guys like Guerin/Roberts and what they would get these days. A few years ago, Hossa/Kovalchuk/Campbell were traded at the deadline. The last few years, guys like Dustin Penner/Paul Gaustad were headliners. It's a changing market and teams know they might have to overpay to keep high end talent, so they'd rather do that then lose them unless a team will significantly overpay (see Paul Gaustad).

And again, how are we a better team to start the year unless you DIDN'T think Sid was going to come back at some point and play with us? So then ask this question add Sid to start last years team, and then look at the rosters. Are we really a "better" team? I just don't see it...

So can we get better? Absolutely but it's going to cost way more than it would've this offseason.
The Stanley Cup Champions traded for Jeff Carter this year. The Devils picked up Zidlicky. Vermette and Kostistyn were traded for picks and prospects. Philly got Grossman for picks. We got Neal just before the deadline last year. Big deadline deals are not dead and they really don't cost that much more than they used to.

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09-10-2012, 04:44 PM
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Shero wanted to make the cap space for Parise; that is very clear. I don't think its unreasonable to think Shero just isn't interested in any of the low cost wingers they would potentially have available.



No we couldn't. We do not have expendable, young NHL experienced forwards that Columbus flat out said they required. We don't have a spare number 2 center to get Ryan which they also flat out said they required. And I don't see how Ott or Foligno are relevant since neither is a better top 6 option than what we already have. Ribiero wasn't going to help us.



I agree with this one. Strange situation.
Obviously, the package would have to be set up a bit differently but asset wise, I don't see how we couldn't compete with that package. Again, we are focusing in on one team when I'm just using it as an example. There are other top 6 options out there and value wise, I think we could've matched the Nash deal.

And how wouldn't a guy like Foligno benefit us? A young 24 year old winger with playmaking abilities who is a pain in the ass to play against. He's starting to put it all together and IMO, will be a 50 point winger for most of his career. That would be great for this team to have, especailly considering Method was dealt for him.


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09-10-2012, 04:46 PM
  #118
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The Stanley Cup Champions traded for Jeff Carter this year. We got Neal just before the deadline last year. Big deadline deals are not dead.
But both of those deals the teams lost significant players in Jack Johnson and Alex Goligoski. Those are "hockey trades" and they will never be dead at any time. But the idea of giving up a few futures and not taking a hit on your roster for a player who can help you big time, are IMO, a dieing breed.

Outside of a guy like Iginla, who you will likely have to give up a lot for prospect/futures wise with a roster player, all the other players who could really benefit us in the long term will require a guy like Sutter or a better roster player to get you. So while you upgrade, you will downgrade in other areas.

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09-10-2012, 04:47 PM
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Obviously, the package would have to be set up a bit differently but asset wise, I don't see how we couldn't compete with that package. Again, we are focusing in on one team when I'm just using it as an example. There are other top 6 options out there and value wise, I think we could've matched the Nash deal.
On Nash specifically, it doesn't matter if we could have matched the value because they wanted the specific pieces. As far as other top 6 forwards they just aren't very readily available.

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09-10-2012, 04:48 PM
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But both of those deals the teams lost significant players in Jack Johnson and Alex Goligoski. Those are "hockey trades" and they will never be dead at any time. But the idea of giving up a few futures and not taking a hit on your roster for a player who can help you big time, are IMO, a dieing breed.
I edited adding guys like Grossman, Zidlicky, Kostitsyn and Vermette. And I don't see what's wrong with making a hockey trade. Why don't they count?

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09-10-2012, 04:52 PM
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I edited adding guys like Grossman, Zidlicky, Kostitsyn and Vermette. And I don't see what's wrong with making a hockey trade.
Absolutely nothing but what roster players can we afford to give up mid-year who could actually get us a player of quality and make this team better?

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09-10-2012, 04:53 PM
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A Michalek/Foligno swap is looking nice right about now. But I'm confident Shero will find us a winger. Just a matter of time.

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09-10-2012, 04:56 PM
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On Nash specifically, it doesn't matter if we could have matched the value because they wanted the specific pieces. As far as other top 6 forwards they just aren't very readily available.
Yet you just listed a guy like Vermette who was available who would've been a nice fit, a guy like Foligno, Steve Downie, even a guy like David Booth was aquired for a package that wasn't anything special.... there aren't a ton but they are there and they take an aggressive GM to get them.

There is a reason that Shero's trades have been so brilliant. He usually doens't pull the trigure unless he knows he's going to win the trade or it's going to be low risk enough that it won't kill us long term. I'd just love to see him get more aggressive to try to acuire talent.

I get that there are circumstances where a trade can't be done, whether it's we don't have the right pieces, value, division rival etc., but there has been enough of opportunites for me to at least say, that Shero could be a bit more aggressive.

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09-10-2012, 04:57 PM
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I think the real question is are we better than the team who just got stomped out in the 1st round:

ADD:
Sutter
Glass
Despres

SUBTRACT:
Staal
Michalek
Sullivan
Park

I think even if your very optimistic, it's hard to say we are much better (which we will need to be) if we are better at all (I feel we are slightly worse).
You are casually comparing two very different entities: the personnel and the performance. The Pens didn't lose to the Flyers because they had an all-star deficiency. A team with much much less talent than the 11/12 Pens could have beaten the Flyers and they did in the very next round. We can easily be a better team next season with the current lineup provided that we also have a better team strategy. We're also adding Vokoun who could just as easily be the starting goalie next season. My only major concern with the team as it is currently constructed is the PK. Of course I also thought the PK was our major strength going into the playoffs last season so...

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09-10-2012, 05:00 PM
  #125
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Absolutely nothing but what roster players can we afford to give up mid-year who could actually get us a player of quality and make this team better?
a defenseman. One of Martin, Niskanen, Despres, Bortuzzo and Strait. Maybe another if Morrow or Dumoulin somehow end up getting a decent length call-up. Maybe Tangradi. It will obviously depend on how they perform but we have 8 NHL defensemen at the moment.

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