HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-11-2012, 08:47 AM
  #176
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If I were Dolan, i'd publicly tell Bettman to go **** himself.
Because that will accomplish a whole bunch of nothing...

All this media posturing and talking is completely pointless. It serves no purpose in trying to get a deal done.

Telling Bettman to go **** himself accomplishes nothing. It's not like saying it will cause the owners/players to suddenly cave into completing a deal.

__________________
New York RKY is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 08:51 AM
  #177
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Bob McKenzie absolutely CRUSHES it in this essay...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404989

Seems he's prepared to miss the whole season...
Good piece.

I agree with a lot, certainly his take on the owners and to an extent his take on the players.

But McKenzie should recognize the players' hardline: When they gave up anything to the NHL last time, the NHL didn't budge an inch and incorporated the PA's give back into the deal. The 24% rollback was a non-cap offer. Next thing you know the 24% is a cap offer requirement. If I'm a player, I'd probably hold fast to 57% until the league got to the number I'm looking for.

The final deal is in the article however. It should be an 8 year deal, 50/50 split. The split is phased in by locking the current cap number until 50% surpasses the $64m figure. 4 year rookie cap, 5-7 year cap on all deals with a stricter calculation of AAV. I would not relent on the definition of HRR, it's silly and the league insisted on the cap, the definition and the philosophy to the point of locking out an entire year. The rest is give and take.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:04 AM
  #178
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,350
vCash: 500
The NHL asked the PA to keep the cap status quo at $64.3M this summer but the PA declined. McKenzie is exasperated by the whole situation. Kevin Paul Dupont quoted a team source(no name revealed)about Gary wanting more givebacks from the players after they gave in 2005 and perhaps that's not such a good strategy. They can't afford to lose an entire season again. They won't. The players gained young free agency when they accepted the cap. Now the NHL wants to take away that gain. It doesn't work that way. The players are gaining nothing in the next CBA. Its all givebacks and they want to take away a main gain from this CBA. The PA wants to keep arbitration and give rid of walkaway. That would be a gain. The NHL wants to dump arbitration completely. The PA will want something for making a concession. Something is not being allowed to keep what they already have.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:20 AM
  #179
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Because that will accomplish a whole bunch of nothing...

All this media posturing and talking is completely pointless. It serves no purpose in trying to get a deal done.

Telling Bettman to go **** himself accomplishes nothing. It's not like saying it will cause the owners/players to suddenly cave into completing a deal.
Agreed. In fact, I give the owners of the higher revenue teams credit for not going public with their displeasure. The end result of this (probably a lower cap and more revenue sharing) will likely wind up hurting those teams, but not one owner has come and spoken out publicly against a lockout. Say what you want about Bettman, but hes helped these guys line their pockets for years.

Not only is voicing out against Bettman childish, but it'd also be incredibly arrogant. Deep down, Dolan knows he has lucked out with the Rangers in a city like New York. You can run the team into the ground for almost a decade and still find 18,000 saps to come into your building every night. There are very few cities that have that luxury.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:32 AM
  #180
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,350
vCash: 500
From: @reporterchris
Sent: Sep 11, 2012 10:28a

The NHL and NHLPA both say there are no CBA talks currently planned for today.

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...29251351244800

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:38 AM
  #181
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,350
vCash: 500
Cablevision were partners with ITT when they bought the Garden properties in 1994 from Viacom which had puchased Paramount Communications which was formerly known as Gulf and Western. Cablevision bought ITT's share a few years later. They knew what they were buying. Cablevision could have purchased the Islanders.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:42 AM
  #182
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,350
vCash: 500
Jacobs is one of Gary's guys. The NHL proposes 5 year contract term limits and scrapping arbitration. What does Jacobs do? Gives a 6 year extension to Seguin with a year left on entry level. Jacobs giving Gary the middle finger.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 10:02 AM
  #183
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,996
vCash: 500
Quick question for you guys...have your STH's received any information about what happens in case of a lockout? Bruins fans got ours today and I'm trying to gauge if we're getting screwed or not in comparison to other teams that I consider to be similar marketwise.

Thanks!

Kate08 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 10:42 AM
  #184
twistedwrister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 57
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Quick question for you guys...have your STH's received any information about what happens in case of a lockout? Bruins fans got ours today and I'm trying to gauge if we're getting screwed or not in comparison to other teams that I consider to be similar marketwise.

Thanks!
Haven't heard anything yet. I think someone mentioned a while back that last year the Knicks stopped taking payments once the lockout started and sent a check every once in a while for interest on the account payments that had already been made and were being held by the team. I'd imagine the Rangers would do something similar

twistedwrister is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 10:57 AM
  #185
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedwrister View Post
Haven't heard anything yet. I think someone mentioned a while back that last year the Knicks stopped taking payments once the lockout started and sent a check every once in a while for interest on the account payments that had already been made and were being held by the team. I'd imagine the Rangers would do something similar
The Celtics did something similar as well.

Our options are:

Quote:
Option #1: Loyalty Program

You may elect to earn a 3% APR credit on the ticket money for games missed. In electing this option all ticket money and credit from games missed must stay on account. By choosing this option you will be committing to renew your season tickets for the 2013-14 season and you will lock in a price freeze on your season tickets for the 2013-14 season.



Option #2: Monthly Refund

You may elect to earn a 1% APR credit on the ticket money for games missed and receive monthly refunds on the ticket money for games missed. Your 1% APR credit from games missed will stay on account.
Oh, and we still need to make our monthly payments...from the FAQ (http://bruins.nhl.com/club/page.htm?...9b986178efbdcd)

Quote:


Do I have to continue making payments?
Yes, you must continue making your season ticket payments. In order to receive the credit, your account must be in good standing and current with all payment plans. Should you not be in good standing or your account not current with payment you will forfeit your ability to receive the credit. Once your account returns to good standing you will begin receiving the credit. Should your account become delinquent in payment at any point during the time when you are receiving credit you will stop receiving credit until your account becomes current.

Kate08 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 11:13 AM
  #186
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 849
vCash: 500
I don't see how the NHLPA has a leg to stand on demanding 57% of revenues when the NBAPA gets 50% and the NFLPA gets 47%.

mschmidt64 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 11:21 AM
  #187
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,514
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
I don't see how the NHLPA has a leg to stand on demanding 57% of revenues when the NBAPA gets 50% and the NFLPA gets 47%.
Different leagues calculate revenue differently. Take this passage from McKenzie's article referenced above:

Quote:
It hasn't helped matters that the NHL has been proposing a new definition of Hockey Related Revenue, effectively offering the players a smaller piece of a smaller pie and at the very least confusing us who are math challenged and forcing us to repeatedly ask: Was that (fill in the blank) per cent of old HRR or new HRR?.
Unless you know the exact formula for calculating HRR (or football-related revenue/basketball-related revenue), you can't just say "57% is more than the other leagues get!" The other leagues could be drawing from a much larger revenue source proportionally.

__________________

It's just pain.

Last edited by nyr2k2: 09-11-2012 at 11:34 AM.
nyr2k2 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #188
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Because that will accomplish a whole bunch of nothing...

All this media posturing and talking is completely pointless. It serves no purpose in trying to get a deal done.

Telling Bettman to go **** himself accomplishes nothing. It's not like saying it will cause the owners/players to suddenly cave into completing a deal.
If enough big market owners feel like Dolan does (he made his feelings clear enough) that absolutely could force things to happen.

The league is driven by (always has been) by its big market clubs.

Why does Dolan care about the CBA? All he wants is butts in the seats and games on the ice. He will be raking in money no matter what. But he loses a ton if the Rangers don't play. He cares about player salaries?

If enough big market owners express this fact, it could help.

Childish? When is it childish to stand up for what you believe in? How else are things going to get done. Apparently what ever is happening isn't enough.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:06 PM
  #189
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Different leagues calculate revenue differently. Take this passage from McKenzie's article referenced above:



Unless you know the exact formula for calculating HRR (or football-related revenue/basketball-related revenue), you can't just say "57% is more than the other leagues get!" The other leagues could be drawing from a much larger revenue source proportionally.
the cost of running an NHL game is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than running a basketball game or football game. first and foremost you have the fact that its at an ice hockey rink which simply costs more to run and cool...cooling for a place that large when the rink needs to be at a certain temperature in order to be at its most effective is exorbitant. Revenue != profits. really the split should be 50/50 of the profits before players salaries. which is, likely, what the owners want.

Inferno is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:06 PM
  #190
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,230
vCash: 500
No talks for today.

Four days until the CBA expires, no talks.

Nothing is going to get accomplished without someone having the guts and the power to take a stand.

No urgency.

Its ****ing disgraceful.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:11 PM
  #191
TCRF
RICK. GNASH
 
TCRF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 19,386
vCash: 476
Cause either sides are acting like kids.

TCRF is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:15 PM
  #192
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,578
vCash: 500
We knew there was going to be a lock out

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #193
NyRangers88
Section 208 Row 15
 
NyRangers88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,474
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NyRangers88
If Gary Bettman thinks the NHL in the United States will recover from a 2nd lockout, he is in for a rude awakening.

__________________
2013-2014 Eastern Conference Champions!!
NyRangers88 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:17 PM
  #194
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Cause either sides are acting like kids.
Actually, I think the folks pining for something to happen are the ones that sound like kids. Kind of an "I want hockey! DO SOMETHING!" mentality.

Either you're too young to realize what goes on when it comes to a multi-billion dollar negotiation.

Or, you've just never realized that money trumps the fans' wants. The sooner you accept that, the easier this will be to deal with.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:25 PM
  #195
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Actually, I think the folks pining for something to happen are the ones that sound like kids. Kind of an "I want hockey! DO SOMETHING!" mentality.

Either you're too young to realize what goes on when it comes to a multi-billion dollar negotiation.

Or, you've just never realized that money trumps the fans' wants. The sooner you accept that, the easier this will be to deal with.
This is exactly how I perceive it.

We all want hockey, but to have fans/owners/players through temper tantrums in public won't help solve anything.

If anyone honestly felt like the season would start on time then I'm sorry but I'd call you insane. Both sides want to "win" in some semblance of this negotiation. There's no urgency in the matter because no one is losing money. When they start losing games/money then they'll talk. Until then all we can do as fans is sit back and wait for our beloved sport to come back. The owners and players don't care about the fans (moreso the owners), they care about the money. Our whining will accomplish NOTHING.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:31 PM
  #196
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
If Gary Bettman thinks the NHL in the United States will recover from a 2nd lockout, he is in for a rude awakening.
That's hogwash.

All sports that go on through CBA negotiations/lockouts always say the same thing, "they'll never be able to recover". Yet they always do recover. There may be a short term loss of the die hard and casual fans but eventually 95% of them come back.

In 2004-2005 the NHL went through a "crippling" season long lockout. The NHL suffered some when they came back but look at them now, you could argue they're are/were stronger then ever.

The fans will come back and the owners/players know this. 95% of the fans who are angry now will get over it when they see their beloved game back on TV.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:40 PM
  #197
TCRF
RICK. GNASH
 
TCRF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 19,386
vCash: 476
I will not like...drop the Rangers if ther is a LO. And poster above is right. Most if not all their fans come back, on any team. Neither side is going to "win" at this pace. YES, I wish they'd agree on something mutual. I wanna see hockey but I can't control that. And people that threaten to boycott hockey wont do anything either.

TCRF is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:44 PM
  #198
NyRangers88
Section 208 Row 15
 
NyRangers88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,474
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to NyRangers88
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
That's hogwash.

All sports that go on through CBA negotiations/lockouts always say the same thing, "they'll never be able to recover". Yet they always do recover. There may be a short term loss of the die hard and casual fans but eventually 95% of them come back.

In 2004-2005 the NHL went through a "crippling" season long lockout. The NHL suffered some when they came back but look at them now, you could argue they're are/were stronger then ever.

The fans will come back and the owners/players know this. 95% of the fans who are angry now will get over it when they see their beloved game back on TV.
When was the last time one of the other leagues was running the risk of losing 2 full season in 8 years though? The NHL lost ESPN the last lockout, which was a huge loss in the US and took almost 8 years to recover -- and I still don't think national coverage is nearly as good as it used to be. I just can't see the NHL being the same if they lose this entire year. At the very least, all the progress from the the last lockout will be lost very quickly.

NyRangers88 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:44 PM
  #199
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,230
vCash: 500
Most people feel its asinine these people are allowing this situation to happen, and showing no sense of urgency to even get together and discuss it.

If you're a pacifist, that's your prerogative. Things get done when people act.

They either need to sit down and communicate until this thing gets done. Or someone needs to set something in motion.

Doing nothing shouldn't be an option.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 12:49 PM
  #200
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
When was the last time one of the other leagues was running the risk of losing 2 full season in 8 years? The NHL lost ESPN the last lockout, which was a huge loss in the US and took almost 8 years to recover -- and I still don't think national coverage is nearly as good as it used to be. I just can't see the NHL being the same if they lose this entire year. At the very least, all the progress from the the last lockout will be lost very quickly.
I don't disagree that they will take a hit. That's just a side effect of these negotiations but what I'm saying is that it never gets to a point where so many people are so fed up with the product that they can't stand it.

Most of the people will always come back. They may not right away, but there will never be a point where it hurts the league. If anything the core die hard fans will be enough to sustain the league.

The NHL takes an imaging hit again but it doesn't effect the fact that it's a great sport that even the casual fan enjoys. They'll be fine again if there is another lockout.

New York RKY is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.