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Bruins Re-sign Tyler Seguin: 6 Years at 5.75

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:48 PM
  #126
McVespa99
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Originally Posted by chizzler View Post
As B's fan, I'm happy he's signed but these second contracts are rediculous. This is ruining the cap for teams. You can thank the offer sheet. Oh well 60 points gets you 6 million. Wow.
As an Oiler fan I felt the same about the Hall and Ebs signings. Was thrilled to have them long term but thought the money is totally rediculous.

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09-11-2012, 02:48 PM
  #127
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Congrats BOS; don't see any downside on this one really

It must be nice being a fan of a large market team when it comes to contract negotiations. Every time the Preds are trying to work with a highly touted RFA/UFA, I assume the worst.
No offense, but I doubt you've been a fan for long if you think large market automatically means fiscal largesse.

I've been a Bruins fan for 40 years. The Bruins do right by their players now, but it wasn't always that way.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:50 PM
  #128
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A little high...I'd have preferred 3.5-4.0 over four to five years, but this is where we are in the NHL. So be it and let the players have ever-increasing salaries I guess.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I continue to be amazed at the number of young players locking themselves in at what should eventually be bargain prices...
Im not. These are lifetime security contracts. These guys will never have to work a day in their life after hockey.
Injuries are a part of hockey. How would you like to be Hall, Ebs, Sequin etc and sign a one year deal looking to hit the home run after and then get a career ending injury? They will be free agents in their prime and still have a shot at another even larger contract. They traded some potential money for security. I would do the same if I was in their position.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Yosho View Post
Makes Hall's contract look silly.
Yea that whole extra .25, what a silly contract...

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09-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
Im not. These are lifetime security contracts. These guys will never have to work a day in their life after hockey.
Injuries are a part of hockey. How would you like to be Hall, Ebs, Sequin etc and sign a one year deal looking to hit the home run after and then get a career ending injury? They will be free agents in their prime and still have a shot at another even larger contract. They traded some potential money for security. I would do the same if I was in their position.
Yep well said.

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09-11-2012, 03:03 PM
  #132
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Solid deal for a kid who can be a legit #1 center sooner than later.

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09-11-2012, 03:04 PM
  #133
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So 7 years at 6 million for Hall is ruining hockey, leading to huge unjust salaries on second contracts. Oilers overpaid big time!

But 6 years at 5.75 million is an absolute steal, the GM is amazing for getting such a contract. Totally worth it, Boston really lucked out.

Oh HF dont ever change because its too funny

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:08 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you believe that. That's why I added the "Homers going to homer" comment.

It's quite simple. For each of their respective careers thus far:

Hall - .75 PPG, 18 minutes a game (average)
Skinner - .73 PPG, 17 minutes a game (average)
Seguin - .55 PPG, 14 minutes a game (average)

Tell me how one is "clearly" better than the other at the moment, because I'd love to see the justification.

As for their careers going forward, I'm not going to attempt to predict the future, especially when two out of the three players have had injury-plagued seasons this early in their careers. I will say that, theoretically, this upcoming season, all 3 will have the best support surrounding them in their careers thus far, with Edmonton getting a RW in Yak and Carolina getting a solid 2nd line center in J. Staal.
That's some real nice averages you got there. Not a big fan of averages, and I'll tell you why:

Skinner
10-11: 0.77 ppg
11-12: 0.69 ppg

That's what's called a "downward trend".

Hall
10-11: 0.65 ppg
11-12: 0.87 ppg

That's what's called an "upward trend".

Seguin
10-11: 0.30 ppg
11-12: 0.83 ppg

Maybe you might have had a case last year, but Skinner isn't even in the same realm as Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin.

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:10 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Wouldn't say it looks "silly" now. Theyre pretty much the same haha. Wouldnt have minded Halls deal either, if Seguin turns into the superstar we think he will Seguin has 1 less year of UFA status taken away from him than Hall.

Theres arguments for both...might have even preferred the extra 250k for one more UFA year.
Stop being so rational and unbiased. That's not needed around here.

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09-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
So 7 years at 6 million for Hall is ruining hockey, leading to huge unjust salaries on second contracts. Oilers overpaid big time!

But 6 years at 5.75 million is an absolute steal, the GM is amazing for getting such a contract. Totally worth it, Boston really lucked out.

Oh HF dont ever change because its too funny
The difference is that Seguin isn't as injury prone and has put up a 80+ game season with better numbers across the board for that year. The bottom line isn't the numbers though or the team's they play on, just the fact that he has proven to be durable and capable of putting up big numbers, not to mention he is in a more valuable, two-way position than Hall, it just makes him a more rounded and complete player at this stage, and more proven. Edmonton's situation is different as well, because they have to pay several forwards over the next three years who will be all guaranteed to look for more than Hall. Hall's is riskier because of his injuries and what it means to the other forwards on his team is the bottom line. It's not overly riskier, or some big red flag, but I would argue that Seguin's deal has a slight edge, even with one less year, at the point it was signed. Both will likely turn out to be amazing players. Hall's just has legitimate questions raised, while there are none for Seguin.

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09-11-2012, 03:20 PM
  #137
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Steal of a deal for the Bruins. I'm still fine with the Hall contract, but the fact that Eberle makes more than Seguin is absolutely stupid.

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09-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
The difference is that Seguin isn't as injury prone and has put up a 80+ game season with better numbers across the board for that year. The bottom line isn't the numbers though or the team's they play on, just the fact that he has proven to be durable and capable of putting up big numbers, not to mention he is in a more valuable, two-way position than Hall, it just makes him a more rounded and complete player at this stage, and more proven. Edmonton's situation is different as well, because they have to pay several forwards over the next three years who will be all guaranteed to look for more than Hall. Hall's is riskier because of his injuries and what it means to the other forwards on his team is the bottom line. It's not overly riskier, or some big red flag, but I would argue that Seguin's deal has a slight edge, even with one less year, at the point it was signed. Both will likely turn out to be amazing players. Hall's just has legitimate questions raised, while there are none for Seguin.
Seguin has been playing wing his whole NHL career as well so I believe that's incorrect.

You're saying that Hall should have gotten less money because he had a few unfortunate injuries? Tell that to Marian Gaborik. I think that worked out just fine for the Rangers. Like Seguin, Hall has shown the ability to put numbers up on the board at a high level which is why they essentially signed the same contracts with the Oilers paying a bit more for one more UFA year.

There's no reason that Hall's should be viewed as a mistake and Seguin's as a steal.

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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Steal of a deal for the Bruins. I'm still fine with the Hall contract, but the fact that Eberle makes more than Seguin is absolutely stupid.
How so?

Seguin: 2011-12 Boston Bruins NHL 81 29 38 67

Eberle: 2011-12 Edmonton Oilers NHL 78 34 42 76

With both starting their second contract, why shouldn't he make more?

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:28 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
The difference is that Seguin isn't as injury prone and has put up a 80+ game season with better numbers across the board for that year. The bottom line isn't the numbers though or the team's they play on, just the fact that he has proven to be durable and capable of putting up big numbers, not to mention he is in a more valuable, two-way position than Hall, it just makes him a more rounded and complete player at this stage, and more proven. Edmonton's situation is different as well, because they have to pay several forwards over the next three years who will be all guaranteed to look for more than Hall. Hall's is riskier because of his injuries and what it means to the other forwards on his team is the bottom line. It's not overly riskier, or some big red flag, but I would argue that Seguin's deal has a slight edge, even with one less year, at the point it was signed. Both will likely turn out to be amazing players. Hall's just has legitimate questions raised, while there are none for Seguin.
Seguin lacks any leadership qualities and his "2 way play" doesn't begin to make up for that when comparing him to Hall. Sure, some people might consider Hall "injury prone" and I agree the only reason we're having this discussion is because he needs to learn to play less recklessly. However, Hall has put up much bigger PPG stats in both years while leading the entire Oilers offense while Seguin has been given sheltered minutes in a lesser capacity as well as playing alongside Selke winner Bergeron.

There are definitely questions raised when it comes to Seguin. Can he handle leading the offense? Can he handle a more prominent role? Can he handle not being sheltered? Can he play more than 7 games in the playoffs before being benched?

The only question about Taylor Hall seems to be, "Can he hold his head up?".

Oh, and by the way you are severely misinformed about the Oilers situation and their upcoming contracts. The bar has been set, and unless RNH or Yakupov take the reigns over from Hall no one will be getting more than him.

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09-11-2012, 03:30 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Yeah, I'm sure you believe that. That's why I added the "Homers going to homer" comment.

It's quite simple. For each of their respective careers thus far:

Hall - .75 PPG, 18 minutes a game (average)
Skinner - .73 PPG, 17 minutes a game (average)
Seguin - .55 PPG, 14 minutes a game (average)

Tell me how one is "clearly" better than the other at the moment, because I'd love to see the justification.

As for their careers going forward, I'm not going to attempt to predict the future, especially when two out of the three players have had injury-plagued seasons this early in their careers. I will say that, theoretically, this upcoming season, all 3 will have the best support surrounding them in their careers thus far, with Edmonton getting a RW in Yak and Carolina getting a solid 2nd line center in J. Staal.
You did mention this already in your post, but Seguin has had a MUCH better supporting cast than Hall has had.

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09-11-2012, 03:31 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
The difference is that Seguin isn't as injury prone and has put up a 80+ game season with better numbers across the board for that year. The bottom line isn't the numbers though or the team's they play on, just the fact that he has proven to be durable and capable of putting up big numbers, not to mention he is in a more valuable, two-way position than Hall, it just makes him a more rounded and complete player at this stage, and more proven. Edmonton's situation is different as well, because they have to pay several forwards over the next three years who will be all guaranteed to look for more than Hall. Hall's is riskier because of his injuries and what it means to the other forwards on his team is the bottom line. It's not overly riskier, or some big red flag, but I would argue that Seguin's deal has a slight edge, even with one less year, at the point it was signed. Both will likely turn out to be amazing players. Hall's just has legitimate questions raised, while there are none for Seguin.
Such a sweeping statement. 2 more goals and 12 more assists in 20 games isnt blowing Hall away.

It was funny when HF was saying that in the summer now its just sad.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=640585

Since you missed it. Here is someone guaranteed to look for more then Hall

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09-11-2012, 03:34 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
The difference is that Seguin isn't as injury prone and has put up a 80+ game season with better numbers across the board for that year. The bottom line isn't the numbers though or the team's they play on, just the fact that he has proven to be durable and capable of putting up big numbers, not to mention he is in a more valuable, two-way position than Hall, it just makes him a more rounded and complete player at this stage, and more proven. Edmonton's situation is different as well, because they have to pay several forwards over the next three years who will be all guaranteed to look for more than Hall. Hall's is riskier because of his injuries and what it means to the other forwards on his team is the bottom line. It's not overly riskier, or some big red flag, but I would argue that Seguin's deal has a slight edge, even with one less year, at the point it was signed. Both will likely turn out to be amazing players. Hall's just has legitimate questions raised, while there are none for Seguin.
Playing one or 2 years in the league does not prove you are durable long term. Hall may never get injured again and Seguin might miss 30 games a year. Hockey is a tough physical sport and thats the way it goes. If Hall had some sort of chronic injury that had happened several times I would agree with you. But a couple of freak accidents and one old injury do not make a player "injury prone".

As far as better numbers go their ppg is pretty much the same.(Hall is a couple % points higher) Obviously it is better if a player can play a full season but at this point I dont think either has enough history to say one way or the other who is better or who will be more durable in the long run.
As far as the deals go to me they are pretty much the same. One extra year cost the Oil a little more.

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09-11-2012, 03:42 PM
  #143
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That's some real nice averages you got there. Not a big fan of averages, and I'll tell you why:

Skinner
10-11: 0.77 ppg
11-12: 0.69 ppg

That's what's called a "downward trend".

Hall
10-11: 0.65 ppg
11-12: 0.87 ppg

That's what's called an "upward trend".

Seguin
10-11: 0.30 ppg
11-12: 0.83 ppg

Maybe you might have had a case last year, but Skinner isn't even in the same realm as Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin.
I don't think you understand what "trend" means. Either that or you don't understand the concept of a sample size. You're going to need more than two years to declare "trends". I severely hope you understand why.

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09-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #144
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Peter Chiarelli is an absolute stud. Even as a Canucks fan, I must admit that I love everything Chiarelli is doing to his organization.

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09-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #145
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I don't have a problem with these top players getting good contracts, I'm just shocked they are coming after only 2 years, a full year before they are due.

Seems a crazt strategy for me, but, the economics have sure changed.

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09-11-2012, 03:49 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
You did mention this already in your post, but Seguin has had a MUCH better supporting cast than Hall has had.
He has a deep team, with a good defensive system, and a ton of 2 way forwards. Yes their team is alot better overall but that's because they don't just have 3 guys doing the scoring, as opposed to Edmontons run and gun system. Taylor Hall's most common linemates were Eberle and RNH, Eberle outscored all Bruins players, and RNH would've probably as well. Seguin's linemates Bergeron and Marchand, while good 2 way guys, they aren't exactly offensive guru's.

In short, Seguin has a deeper team but Hall has better linemates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I don't think you understand what "trend" means. Either that or you don't understand the concept of a sample size. You're going to need more than two years to declare "trends". I severely hope you understand why.
this

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I don't think you understand what "trend" means. Either that or you don't understand the concept of a sample size. You're going to need more than two years to declare "trends". I severely hope you understand why.
You would have been correct if there was only 1 point of reference, but considering there are 2 points of reference that's all that's needed to quantify a trend. But that was a good attempt at deflecting the facts.

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09-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #148
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Great deal for there #1 franchise center and future Captain!

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09-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You would have been correct if there was only 1 point of reference, but considering there are 2 points of reference that's all that's needed to quantify a trend. But that was a good attempt at deflecting the facts.


So going off your "trend", next year, Skinner will decrease his PPG by .8, Hall will increase his PPG by .22, and Seguin will increase his PPG by .53?

Do you now see why it's important to have a bigger sample size to extrapolate data so that one can declare whether something is trending in a certain direction?

And this is ignoring the fact that an increase/decrease in PPG from one year to the next does not mean an increase/decrease in PPG for every year afterwards. The point totals of hockey players (especially young players) are known to fluctuate, due to the variety of factors that effect said point totals.

For instance, Skinner's "downward trend" (still laughable) last year was due to the concussion and subsequent recovery from said concussion. Does this mean next year he's going to put up a .60 PPG due to "trending downward" or is it more likely that (if he remains healthy) he'll return to or surpass his original PPG?

It's so very sad that I have to explain this.

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09-11-2012, 04:13 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Steal of a deal for the Bruins. I'm still fine with the Hall contract, but the fact that Eberle makes more than Seguin is absolutely stupid.
Why should Eberle get less?

He outproduced Seguin in both years.

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