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The Lockout Thread Part I

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Old
09-11-2012, 10:30 AM
  #301
IBleedUnionBlue
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
There are these things... They are called words. They formed sentences and lines of thought. They were on topic with the discussion. They were after they sentence you pulled out. Those sentences were a continuation of a discussion. They formed the basis for exactly what you asked for. Seems to me you were the one that stopped the discussion and went off topic of which I am now continuing.

/bravo
Your passive aggressive tactics at posting bore me. If you have anything of substance to discuss on topic, get back to me.

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09-11-2012, 11:54 AM
  #302
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Your passive aggressive tactics at posting bore me. If you have anything of substance to discuss on topic, get back to me.
Passive aggressive? At what point have ever seen anything passive out of blahblah?

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09-11-2012, 12:06 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Passive aggressive? At what point have ever seen anything passive out of blahblah?


On a serious note: No talks scheduled today. The NHL BOG meet Thursday. We are heading full speed ahead to a lockout.

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09-11-2012, 12:35 PM
  #304
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I wonder when he CBJ management will be sending refunds to those season ticket buyers. There ain't gonna be a season again. Looks like an every four or five year thing until there is no more NHL.

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09-11-2012, 01:49 PM
  #305
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It has everything to do with it. Do you think the players wanted a salary cap last time around? I do agree the players need to give up the idea of getting 57% of HRR but the owners aren't going to get there by proposing a 20% reduction in salaries. How would you feel if the company you worked for had revenue increase 50% over 8 years and offered you 20% less in salary?
I am going to apologize in advance for the disjointed post. There are a lot of things I threw in there and the formatting is off, not to mention some thoughts are repeated or out of order.

I don't remember seeing a 20% decrease, but hey exaggeration is great. Actually you are misreading that completely anyway, it's a reduction in the percentage of the pie. That doesn't mean that salaries will decline. Now if you are talking about the 20% decrease across the board like they did in the 2003, I agree I wouldn't agree with that. I don't remember that being the case this time around. What we have been talking about is the 10% or 15% decrease in revenue as applied to the Cap. With a large Cap decrease there is going to be some displacement of players (buy outs and such). A concern to be sure.

Now, let's put something in perspective. Had my company increased revenue by 30% and decided to decrease my share of the pool I have by let's say 10%, I may not care. Now if the company had decreased in revenue and they wanted to reduce my stake that might be a different story, but I would need to look at the financials. Let's do some quick math. Let's say the pie is 200 million, a 30% increase would raise that to 260 million. 57% is $114 million (the fact that you got $114 million is moronic to begin with). 47% of 260 million is $122 million. What that states is that the owners would have given 8 million and kept 52 million (if the labor pool is the same, which it is, there is no decrease in salary). I'm sure most of you would consider that "unfair". But they again you aren't the ones that deal with day to day expenses of running the franchises either. You have a guaranteed contract, living large, with almost no risk. Your biggest fear might be a large drop in league-wide revenue, in which case you are going to have to deal like the rest of humanity (something big would have to come down for a noticeable decrease in league wide revenue).

Salaries and the salary cap are increasing far, far, far greater than the cost of living. The average player salary has increased by 69% since 2003.

To give you an idea, revenue in Columbus has increased from 64 million in 2002 to 80 million in 2012. Player salaries have increased from 26 million to 56 million in that time frame. That is over a 100% increase in players costs versus a 25% increase in revenue. The valuation of the team has remained relatively flat, now at around 152 million. That 2002 number had a 6 million dollar profit, versus a 13.7 million loss in 2012.

Now what the player do have an grievance about is the larger market teams. Some of these teams have actually had reduced payrolls that have just not started to come back to pre-lockout levels while operating income has shot up dramatically. This points to an issue with how revenues are distributed. For example, the Red Wings were spending more pre-lock out than they are now. Of course they were also losing money before. Nashville follows a very similar line as we do.

Then again the average ticket price in Montreal is $90, Columbus $49. Montreal has no issues with an operating income at $50 million while charging almost double for the cost of a ticket.

What this comes down to is that the player want the income from Toronto and NY distributed down to the teams like Columbus, Nashville, Phx, etc despite the fact that the average salary has already increased by 69% in the last decade (as if they were underpaid before). The larger market teams wouldn't mind spending that cash if it gives them a larger competitive advantage. Why would they want Columbus or Nashville more competitive? They would rather attempt to buy Cups with $100 million+ in team salaries and let the other teams struggle to put a $50 million team on the ice. All the while few of them care what ticket prices are.


Last edited by blahblah: 09-11-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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09-11-2012, 02:45 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I wonder when he CBJ management will be sending refunds to those season ticket buyers. There ain't gonna be a season again. Looks like an every four or five year thing until there is no more NHL.
I laugh at people who think there is actually going to be a full season lockout again. They might not be the smartest minds (both sides) but they aren't completely stupid.

Its almost 100% sure that there will be a lockout now. But I am also 100% sure there will be NHL hockey this season.

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09-11-2012, 03:38 PM
  #307
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Passive aggressive? At what point have ever seen anything passive out of blahblah?
Winner, winner, winner!

Would honestly consider using this as a signature

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09-11-2012, 03:38 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I laugh at people who think there is actually going to be a full season lockout again. They might not be the smartest minds (both sides) but they aren't completely stupid.Its almost 100% sure that there will be a lockout now. But I am also 100% sure there will be NHL hockey this season.
And what proof do you have to back up the bolded statement above?

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09-11-2012, 04:50 PM
  #309
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Close to 300 players expected at NHLPA meetings
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nhl/s...ngs/57748654/1

If anything, this many players converging on New York City demonstrates unity that was lacking in the NHLPA in the last lockout.

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09-11-2012, 06:11 PM
  #310
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL and NHLPA will meet tomorrow in NYC in advance of NHLPA player meeting.

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09-12-2012, 08:14 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nhl/s...ngs/57748654/1

If anything, this many players converging on New York City demonstrates unity that was lacking in the NHLPA in the last lockout.
Not having to be in a room with Jeremy Roenick probably helps, too.

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09-12-2012, 03:35 PM
  #312
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I just find it ODD that Ron Hainsey is the NHLPA player point man, when he exhibited no apparent leadership or public personae during his entire tenure with the CBJ.

As for this pending lockout...

We've got baseball's World Series, plus college football and basketball, and a close Presidential Election to distract us while these dopes come to their senses.

Listen for the collective Yawn on Sunday.

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09-12-2012, 04:57 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post

We've got baseball's World Series, plus college football and basketball, and a close Presidential Election to distract us while these dopes come to their senses.
What if one doesn't care about any of that stuff?

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09-12-2012, 06:46 PM
  #314
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What if one doesn't care about any of that stuff?

I believe the vast majority of hockey fans are sports fans.
Those who aren't can use the time to move out of their parents' house, or work on their hygiene issues.

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09-12-2012, 06:57 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I believe the vast majority of hockey fans are sports fans.
Those who aren't can use the time to move out of their parents' house, or work on their hygiene issues.
I couldn't careless about any of those things you mentioned and don't live in my parents house or lack basic hygiene.

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09-12-2012, 08:12 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I wonder when he CBJ management will be sending refunds to those season ticket buyers. There ain't gonna be a season again. Looks like an every four or five year thing until there is no more NHL.
Last time refund checks were set out each month with interest for each game missed. Once the full season was canceled a full refund was paid.

I don't think the whole season is going to be lost, but I can see a month of play and the ASG being lost.

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09-12-2012, 09:30 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
What if one doesn't care about any of that stuff?
Outside of college football, I agree. The rest of that stuff is yawn inspiring itself.

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09-13-2012, 07:03 AM
  #318
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Then you will all be in for a long fall. I dont see this getting cleared up any time soon since 3/4 of the players will be out playing around the world

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09-13-2012, 07:09 AM
  #319
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I read somewhere that the two sides have at least agreed on what constitutes hockey related revenue. At least it is something.

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09-13-2012, 07:20 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I believe the vast majority of hockey fans are sports fans.
Those who aren't can use the time to move out of their parents' house, or work on their hygiene issues.
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Originally Posted by v3rs3 View Post
I couldn't careless about any of those things you mentioned and don't live in my parents house or lack basic hygiene.
The funny thing is that being a fan of all of those sports, given the amount of television watching that would presumably accompany said, would probably make one more likely to need those things.

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09-13-2012, 07:21 AM
  #321
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Then you will all be in for a long fall. I dont see this getting cleared up any time soon since 3/4 of the players will be out playing around the world
This I see as a very good possibility. Not happy about it but what can you do?

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09-13-2012, 07:40 AM
  #322
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I have been doing a lot of thinking about what I would do if this season is a total loss and as of now there is a good chance I will not renew as a STH (or at least not to the leave I am now). I will take my money somewhere else like tOSU basketball or Reds season tickets.

I hope the Reds can make a run of it and keep me entertained untill November when I hope the NHL season will start.

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09-13-2012, 08:50 AM
  #323
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What if one doesn't care about any of that stuff?
Oh me! me!

Let's see, I have a whole slew of stuff I can do.

1. Pursue other interests. Guitar and piano lessons come to mind.
2. Adult swimming classes. Yep, I am one of those that can't swim.
3. Uhh... I have three new Paleo cookbooks.
4. Get back my certifications I let expire.
5. First Yoga class this evening.
6. Started on a trilogy just yesterday.
7. Got the entire fall to do some hiking around the state.

JF is probably right that the vast majority of hockey fans are sports fans. But the vast minority that aren't post around here. But I can live without hockey and it wouldn't hurt to have a few more green backs back in my pocket. After QE3 they will be worth that much less, so might as well enjoy them while they can still buy something of value.

I want to see the boys play, but I would also like to see if we can get the Jackets to stop bleeding money.

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09-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #324
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Oh me! me!

Let's see, I have a whole slew of stuff I can do.

1. Pursue other interests. Guitar and piano lessons come to mind.
2. Adult swimming classes. Yep, I am one of those that can't swim.
3. Uhh... I have three new Paleo cookbooks.
4. Get back my certifications I let expire.
5. First Yoga class this evening.
6. Started on a trilogy just yesterday.
7. Got the entire fall to do some hiking around the state.

JF is probably right that the vast majority of hockey fans are sports fans. But the vast minority that aren't post around here. But I can live without hockey and it wouldn't hurt to have a few more green backs back in my pocket. After QE3 they will be worth that much less, so might as well enjoy them while they can still buy something of value.

I want to see the boys play, but I would also like to see if we can get the Jackets to stop bleeding money.
Don't need a lesson on leading a full life, but thanks for the suggestions.

And the truth is, the stuff I will be doing when I'm not attending/watching/reading about hockey is the same stuff I would have done while also doing that hockey-related stuff. It's not as thought I need no hockey to be able to do any other stuff.

I guess that leaves the money. I'm certainly not wealthy, so I suppose the extra cash will be nice. But I had already budgeted what I would have spent, and I did so purposefully so I could get enjoyment out of it. I mean, there are lots of other ways I could save cash if I wanted to -- stop driving to high school football games every Friday night, tell my kid she can't sign up for any activities, stop drinking beer, stop buying guitar picks and strings... see, that's four right off the top of my head. But I happen to derive enjoyment out of those things, and am fortunate to be able to afford them, in such manner as works for me. I hadn't planned on giving any of them up on purpose - kinda like I hadn't planned to stop going to CBJ games.

So yeah, I'm not especially keen on another lockout that causes missed games. I enjoy being a fan, and yet somehow it doesn't keep me from doing other things I find interesting or enjoyable. So it's just something taken away, with nothing added. Oh, I figure I'll manage, but I'm certainly not thinking of the lockout as a time to start knocking stuff of my bucket list.

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09-13-2012, 10:14 AM
  #325
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Here's a pretty good look at the nuts and bolts of the most recent proposals by the NHL and NHLPA:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4541634/

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