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Old
09-10-2012, 11:07 PM
  #326
Drizzt1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Drizzt, why can't you ever be optimistic?

We have an average defense led by a solid #1/2 in EJ whom is one of the best in our division.
Erik Johnson:
Season 2010/2011 - 77 games, 29 points, minus 13
Season 2011/2012 - 73 games, 26 points, minus 7
Playoff experience: 0

Other "comparable" defensemen in our division that I would consider like for like (not even including secondary players like Bieksa, Hamhuis, Giordano or potential guys like Schultz):-

Wild
Ryan Suter
Season 2010/2011 - 70 games, 39 points, plus 20
Season 2011/2012 - 79 games, 46 points, plus 15
Playoff experience: 39

Canucks
Alexander Edler
Season 2010/2011 - 51 games, 33 points, plus 13
Season 2011/2012 - 82 games, 49 points, plus 0
Playoff experience: 55

Oilers
Ryan Whitney
Season 2010/2011 - 35 games, 27 points, plus 13
Season 2011/2012 - 51 games, 20 points, minus 16
Playoff experience: 38

Flames
Jay Bouwmeester
Season 2010/2011 - 82 games, 24 points, minus 2
Season 2011/2012 - 82 games, 29 points, minus 21
Playoff experience: 0

Ok, some players listed have been hampered by injury, but it shows we do not have "one of the best in our division". That is a gross over statement, lets be honest here.

On Johnson's side is youth. He needs to develop though, or he will start being in the Bouwmeester basket of potential busts. Unfortunately, the players around Johnson make it difficult for him to do so. I mean, who will he be partnered with this year? Zanon? Hunwick? Barrie?

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Old
09-10-2012, 11:13 PM
  #327
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Johnson is the 4th best defenseman in the division.

1. Petry
2. Suter
3. Edler
4. Johnson

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Old
09-10-2012, 11:18 PM
  #328
Drizzt1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Drizzt, why can't you ever be optimistic?

We have an average defense led by a solid #1/2 in EJ whom is one of the best in our division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Johnson is the 4th best defenseman in the division.

1. Petry
2. Suter
3. Edler
4. Johnson
Again, big call. There are many what "ifs" there.

What if Whitney remains healthy?
What if Schultz lives up to potential?
What about Bieksa who is plus 44 in the past two years, and has 66 points in that time?

I think Johnson is (on current form, not talking potential) a middle of the pack player.

If he didn't come with the hype of being a number one overall pick (say he was selected in the 6th round), and was putting up these types of numbers, I wonder what people would be saying?

Even Kurtis Foster got 42 points in 71 games with The Lightning.

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Old
09-10-2012, 11:23 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Again, big call. There are many what "ifs" there.

What if Whitney remains healthy?
What if Schultz lives up to potential?
What about Bieksa who is plus 44 in the past two years, and has 66 points in that time?

I think Johnson is (on current form, not talking potential) a middle of the pack player.

If he didn't come with the hype of being a number one overall pick (say he was selected in the 6th round), and was putting up these types of numbers, I wonder what people would be saying?

Even Kurtis Foster got 42 points in 71 games with The Lightning.
A healthy Whitney is not as good as EJ, who knows how Schultz will turn out and Bieksa makes way too many boneheaded mistakes so I wouldn't call him better than EJ either.

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Old
09-11-2012, 12:01 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Johnson is the 4th best defenseman in the division.

1. Petry
2. Suter
3. Edler
4. Johnson


Well played. Just the fact that you didn't get a reaction and the debate went on should tell you something. lol

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Old
09-11-2012, 12:12 AM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Again, big call. There are many what "ifs" there.

What if Whitney remains healthy?
What if Schultz lives up to potential?
What about Bieksa who is plus 44 in the past two years, and has 66 points in that time?

I think Johnson is (on current form, not talking potential) a middle of the pack player.

If he didn't come with the hype of being a number one overall pick (say he was selected in the 6th round), and was putting up these types of numbers, I wonder what people would be saying?

Even Kurtis Foster got 42 points in 71 games with The Lightning.
If he was getting the exact same amount of ice time and playing the exact way he has been playing, they would be saying this :

"With his skating and that size, if or when Johnson eventually puts it all together, look out! He's only 24 years old, so he's got a ways to go before reaching his potential. Like a lot of young, big d-men, it takes time."

Like I've said before, you only see things for what they are TODAY and can't see them for what they are GOING to be in the future. ALL of the players you listed are all older than EJ and have had more time to develop. (Even Edler was drafted 2 years before EJ and has a hell of a lot more help in VCR...[by the by, he looked downright awful at times last season])

Even guys like Shea Weber and Chris Pronger didn't hit their stride until they were about 24 years old, it's weird and funny that you are dooming EJ to failure before getting the chance to prove he can do it. That's not saying EJ will for SURE be just as good as those guys, he may not but he WILL get better than he currently is.

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Old
09-11-2012, 12:31 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Johnson is the 4th best defenseman in the division.

1. Petry
2. Suter
3. Edler
4. Johnson
Dude, no.

1. Petry
2. Petry
3. Smid
4. Petry

Now it gets dicey.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:14 AM
  #333
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Hamhuis is better than Edler.

And Petry/Smid>>>>EJ.

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Old
09-11-2012, 11:02 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Johnson is the 4th best defenseman in the division.

1. Petry
2. Suter
3. Edler
4. Johnson
Based upon potential? I'd certainly agree with that. Based upon actual performance? I'd disagree, or at least hesitate. Heck, last season, EJ had less ES and PK ice time than both Hejda and godd**m O'Brien. Can't be one of the best defensemen in the division if O'Brien gets more minutes in all situations except power plays.

Heck with the whole division - if we look at actual play/production and not potential, and just include Colorado and Vancouver, I think EJ just makes the Top 4 - and he wouldn't make the Top 3, IMO.

However, if we look at potential upside, EJ has a ton of it.

-AB


Last edited by ABasin: 09-11-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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Old
09-11-2012, 11:09 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Drizzt, why can't you ever be optimistic?

We have an average defense led by a solid #1/2 in EJ whom is one of the best in our division.
I think looking at defense corps comparisons with the Avs, the real concern(s) aren't with comparing EJ to other teams' top guys, it's looking at the #2/3 and maybe 4 guys and comparing them with other teams' 2/3 guys.

Hejda/Zanon vs. Hamhuis/Bieksa
Hejda/Wilson vs. Vlasic/Murray
Hejda/O'Byrne vs. Scuderi/Mitchell, etc.

IMO, that's really where the problems arise. Yes, they need EJ to become a legitimate #1 defenseman, but then there are a bevy of 3rd pairing/fringe guys out there.

In the end, the Avs are counting an awful lot on the potential of their young defensemen. Hejda, O'Byrne, O'Brien, Zanon, and Hunwick are known quantities - one (maybe two) 2nd pairing guys and three 3rd pairing/bench guys. With EJ, Barrie, Elliott, and Wilson - the Avs really need the potential to grow here over the next 2 seasons.

-AB

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Old
09-11-2012, 11:54 AM
  #336
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If Seguin is making 5.75 a year what you guys think RoR and his agents are asking now?

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Old
09-11-2012, 11:55 AM
  #337
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I believe Sherman recognizes our need for one more top pairing defender just as much as us guys, but until then he's being smart enough not to sign guys like Carle and Wideman to terrible deals and pretending they will fill the void. We traded Quincey to avoid stupid signings, which I agree with.

Until the day we get another top pairing defender or one of the youth step up, Wilson, O'Byrne, Hejda, O'Brien can hold the fort down reasonably well. Wilson was playing like a top 4 defender last year prior to his concussion. O'Brien was playing like a decent #4/5 (aka: inconsistent top 4 defender) last season and O'Byrne was showing us supreme defensive ability playing like a #4.

I agree, we need a #2/3 defender, but not at the price they currently cost. We can make due in the mean time in my opinion, just fine. At least we're not Anaheim, paying Souray and Allen similar prices to EJ. Or like NJ, relying on Larsson to mature quickly and an elder Zidlicky to light the world on fire.

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Old
09-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #338
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Swedish Allsvenskan (the league below SEL) changed their decision and will allow NHL players.

Djurgården has a lot of former players in the NHL (Kronwall, Hörnqvist, Murray, Josefsson, Landeskog, Kruger). If I had to guess Avs would probably want Landeskog in AHL since he has a two-way deal and the older players might be a priority for Djurgården.

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Old
09-11-2012, 01:31 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qurpiz View Post
If Seguin is making 5.75 a year what you guys think RoR and his agents are asking now?
3.5 to 4.5 is my guess.

David Bolland signed for 3.3 a few years ago, Stoll just signed for 3.25. In comparison Bergeron, Kesler, Richards are a tier above him and they are at 5-6 mill.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:20 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qurpiz View Post
If Seguin is making 5.75 a year what you guys think RoR and his agents are asking now?
The impact of that signing will have no impact on RoR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Swedish Allsvenskan (the league below SEL) changed their decision and will allow NHL players.

Djurgården has a lot of former players in the NHL (Kronwall, Hörnqvist, Murray, Josefsson, Landeskog, Kruger). If I had to guess Avs would probably want Landeskog in AHL since he has a two-way deal and the older players might be a priority for Djurgården.
There is NO CHANCE the Avs captain goes down to play in the AHL.

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Old
09-11-2012, 02:40 PM
  #341
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Quote:
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The impact of that signing will have no impact on RoR.



There is NO CHANCE the Avs captain goes down to play in the AHL.
Is he young enough to play juniors?

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
The impact of that signing will have no impact on RoR.



There is NO CHANCE the Avs captain goes down to play in the AHL.
You want him to play in the 2nd highest tier in Sweden?

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #343
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There is NO CHANCE the Avs captain goes down to play in the AHL.
Playing somewhere in Europe might be more likely than the AHL but why do you say there is no chance?

If guys like Spezza, Staal, Cammalleri, Bergeron, etc can play in the AHL, why can't Landeskog (if he's eligible)?

Saw this on twitter earlier today:

Quote:
@SlavaMalamud
Semyon Varlamov may find himself locked out of the KHL, too. Lokomotiv, which owns his rights, stated they are not interested in NHLers #Avs
I guess they could trade his rights but he might have to find another league to play in.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:09 PM
  #344
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Playing somewhere in Europe might be more likely than the AHL but why do you say there is no chance?

If guys like Spezza, Staal, Cammalleri, Bergeron, etc can play in the AHL, why can't Landeskog (if he's eligible)?
It's significantly less money to play further away from home. I can't see why Landeskog would be interested in playing in the AHL.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #345
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It's significantly less money to play further away from home. I can't see why Landeskog would be interested in playing in the AHL.
Most likely better hockey than in Allsvenskan and it's NHL sized rinks.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #346
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There is a rumour that Stastny might sign with Nurnberg Ice Tigers of DEL. Its on eliteprospect.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:40 PM
  #347
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There is a rumour that Stastny might sign with Nurnberg Ice Tigers of DEL. Its on eliteprospect.
Alright I know which team I'm going to be watching this year.

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09-11-2012, 04:51 PM
  #348
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I'll be watching DU Pioneers, that's pretty much it unless I want to pay for WHL package.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:58 PM
  #349
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I'll be watching DU Pioneers, that's pretty much it unless I want to pay for WHL package.
Well you should know a person who can get for you at half price I think........RS.

I know a few people inside the WHL which I got a great deal for it.


But I will be watching a lot of KHL and European streams. Will watch any Lake Erie when I get the chance, but like always my main league besides NHL is WHL, The Dub.

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Old
09-11-2012, 05:13 PM
  #350
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Also Paul going to the Ice Tigers makes a lot of sense since his brother currently plays there.

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