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Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

RD Erik Gudbranson (2010, 3rd overall, Florida)

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
If at some point in history a Defenseman in the NHL has achieved such "hyperbolic status" <---(last year) .. Then one would assume to be vague in seeking the comparison of less mundane statistical proofs, for further study in the projection of not what the defenseman will become, but what he will become in the essence of projection analysis. That is why it is only reasonable that the number be included
I know you are but what am I?

All I'm saying is that when you're looking for comparisons, singling out top-of-the-league stats is a bit extreme. It'd be like me (or some other CBJ fan) suggesting that Cam Atkinson is "unlikely to reach 120 points". To which the immediate response is "well, yeah, him and nearly every other player in the National Hockey League".

Comparisons aren't useful if they're that outlandish.

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09-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
If at some point in history a Defenseman in the NHL has achieved such "hyperbolic status" <---(last year) .. Then one would assume to be vague in seeking the comparison of less mundane statistical proofs, for further study in the projection of not what the defenseman will become, but what he will become in the essence of projection analysis. That is why it is only reasonable that the number be included
I don't see why you don't understand why people questioned you saying "you doubt Erik ever gets 70-80 points". Of course he isn't going to, I'd be surprised if he ever gets 45.

That's like me saying "I doubt Crosby ever hits 200 points". Of course he isn't. It's not something you would say "I doubt" to, you say he "will not ever".

You say I doubt Gudbranson ever hits 40-50 points, or Crosby ever gets 140-150. Those numbers are within reason, not an huge number with no chance to reach.

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09-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I know you are but what am I?

All I'm saying is that when you're looking for comparisons, singling out top-of-the-league stats is a bit extreme. It'd be like me (or some other CBJ fan) suggesting that Cam Atkinson is "unlikely to reach 120 points". To which the immediate response is "well, yeah, him and nearly every other player in the National Hockey League".

Comparisons aren't useful if they're that outlandish.
Agreed, but it was not a comparison meant to say he will ever reach those points (we know he wont) it was meant to convey the point he will not be or play like the aforementioned players, but still has his own unique strengths from a "tools" perspective

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09-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Karlssonlee View Post
You don't draft defenseman like him, and Luke Schenn that early in the draft. You can find raw defensive talent in the later rounds.

The fact that fowler and gormley were taken after him will prove this case in a few years when they separate themselves developmently
Exactly the way I think too

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Old
09-11-2012, 05:15 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
They are two different posts, one is aimed at the the poster from Minnesota the other is aimed at the following posts from Canadians saying the same thing. I'm assuming they didn't read what I wrote and just answered the other poster. But thanks for proving my other post about Canadians in this thread
What point is that? That you come across as ignorant by taking personal shots at Canadians?

I quoted the guy who quoted you, but my post was more directed at his inquiry about what kind of defenseman Gudbranson is projected to be. So I gave him my breakdown of what Gudbranson's strengths were and possible comparisons to current NHL players, including a likely projection for his point producing capability.

Just because the 70-80 point quote of yours was discussed, does not mean that my reply was in direct response to what you said in your entire post. So maybe it's you with reading comprehension issues to not be able to realize that my post had branched off into a description of Gudbranson's game for the poster I quoted.

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09-11-2012, 05:24 PM
  #206
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To answer the OP's question, I think Gudbranson has a lot of tools (size, shot, mobility, character, etc) and if he puts them all together he could be a big, physical two-way, 25-min top pairing D -- a poor-man's Shea Weber (he won't score as much even in the best case scenario). For that to happen, he'll have to demonstrate greater confidence with the puck and establish himself as a threat on the PP point. If he adopts a purely defensive mindset, he will be a solid stay-at-home D-man. These are the extremes. The most likely scenario is somewhere in between, perhaps close to a Braydon Coburn.

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Old
09-11-2012, 05:31 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
What point is that? That you come across as ignorant by taking personal shots at Canadians?

I quoted the guy who quoted you, but my post was more directed at his inquiry about what kind of defenseman Gudbranson is projected to be. So I gave him my breakdown of what Gudbranson's strengths were and possible comparisons to current NHL players, including a likely projection for his point producing capability.

Just because the 70-80 point quote of yours was discussed, does not mean that my reply was in direct response to what you said in your entire post. So maybe it's you with reading comprehension issues to not be able to realize that my post had branched off into a description of Gudbranson's game for the poster I quoted.


so I guess, what I said doesn't apply to you

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09-11-2012, 05:37 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
so I guess, what I said doesn't apply to you
And yet here was your previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
They are two different posts, one is aimed at the the poster from Minnesota the other is aimed at the following posts from Canadians saying the same thing. I'm assuming they didn't read what I wrote and just answered the other poster. But thanks for proving my other post about Canadians in this thread
If your post wasn't about me, so who were the Canadians (plural) you're referring to in the bolded part above? Only two people quoted the guy from Minnesota who quoted your post at the time of your first shot at Canadian reading comprehension, myself and the poster who posted right before me.

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09-11-2012, 05:52 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
And yet here was your previous post.



If your post wasn't about me, so who were the Canadians (plural) you're referring to in the bolded part above? Only two people quoted the guy from Minnesota who quoted your post at the time of your first shot at Canadian reading comprehension, myself and the poster who posted right before me.


Did you or did you not? open your statement with

"Yeah, I'd say 70+ points is unrealistic, even if it's a career year."

Is this not discussing the Gudbranson will never hit 80 pts in a season dialogue?

If it is? and it sure seems like it.. then you are in line with the others I was referring too.

if you feel like were discussing something else I don't know what that would be? then I guess what I said doesn't apply to you..

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09-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
Did you or did you not? open your statement with

"Yeah, I'd say 70+ points is unrealistic, even if it's a career year."

Is this not discussing the Gudbranson will never hit 80 pts in a season dialogue?

If it is? and it sure seems like it.. then you are in line with the others I was referring too.

if you feel like were discussing something else I don't know what that would be? then I guess what I said doesn't apply to you..
What part of this is hard for you to comprehend?

I responded to that guy, and part of his post mentioned 70-80 points. So I was responding to him saying that yes, I believe 70-80 points isn't realistic, and then went on to explain to him what I believed was a more realistic projection for Gudbranson's upside based on the strengths in Gudbranson's game.

That was the full extent of my post touching on anything you may or may not have said in your post. Yet you seem to think that my post was directed at you in some sort of "lol that dude's nuts if he thinks Gudbranson can reach those totals".

It wasn't related to your post other than to touch on that part of his post to agree that that kind of high point production is highly unlikely for Gudbranson, then I moved on to the main point of my post, which was discussing my thoughts on Gudbranson as a whole.

Or to sum up in plain English, my post was directed at what was said in the post I quoted, not at your post. Do you understand now?

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09-11-2012, 08:05 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
What part of this is hard for you to comprehend?

I responded to that guy, and part of his post mentioned 70-80 points. So I was responding to him saying that yes, I believe 70-80 points isn't realistic, and then went on to explain to him what I believed was a more realistic projection for Gudbranson's upside based on the strengths in Gudbranson's game.

That was the full extent of my post touching on anything you may or may not have said in your post. Yet you seem to think that my post was directed at you in some sort of "lol that dude's nuts if he thinks Gudbranson can reach those totals".

It wasn't related to your post other than to touch on that part of his post to agree that that kind of high point production is highly unlikely for Gudbranson, then I moved on to the main point of my post, which was discussing my thoughts on Gudbranson as a whole.

Or to sum up in plain English, my post was directed at what was said in the post I quoted, not at your post. Do you understand now?

And I am trying to tell you that REGARDLESS of what you went on to talk about you still mentioned the point totals I know the post was not directed at me because I am have nothing to do with your opinion. BUT you still mentioned the point totals THEREFORE are included in the people I was referring too which was the original point.Trying to manipulate your way out of the original point is a Red Herring my friend. I will get back on topic and say I agree with what you had to say

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09-11-2012, 08:12 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
the only thing Karlsson has over Gudbranson is offense. Are you one of those that think Karlsson is Lidstrom ? lmao
I wouldn't say Lidstrom, but he's flippin' amazing. Karlsson's hockey IQ is through the roof, his defensive game is actually quite good because he can read the play so well.

Again, I like Gudbranson, but he's not in the same league as Karlsson.

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09-11-2012, 08:27 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I wouldn't say Lidstrom, but he's flippin' amazing. Karlsson's hockey IQ is through the roof, his defensive game is actually quite good because he can read the play so well.

Again, I like Gudbranson, but he's not in the same league as Karlsson.

Was Brian Leetch in the same league as Scott Stevens ?

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09-11-2012, 09:11 PM
  #214
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EDIT: Never mind.

To be honest Gudbranson reminds me a little bit of Luke Schenn.

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09-11-2012, 09:13 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
Agreed, but it was not a comparison meant to say he will ever reach those points (we know he wont) it was meant to convey the point he will not be or play like the aforementioned players, but still has his own unique strengths from a "tools" perspective
In that case, I would have found better-fitting players to compare to and not even mention folks like Green or Karlsson.

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09-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
In that case, I would have found better-fitting players to compare to and not even mention folks like Green or Karlsson.

Why? the op asked about him. You can compare him to a player that he is similar too or you can compare him to what he is not, both can be used to gauge a description. Why is a description have to only be limited to your perception ? We know that Phil Kessel is no Wayne Gretzky but he is a solid scorer. From that example you can use a generational player to describe the non generational player and gauge his talents that way; albeit you'll need more information than that.

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09-11-2012, 10:13 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
Why? the op asked about him. You can compare him to a player that he is similar too or you can compare him to what he is not, both can be used to gauge a description. Why is a description have to only be limited to your perception ? We know that Phil Kessel is no Wayne Gretzky but he is a solid scorer. From that example you can use a generational player to describe the non generational player and gauge his talents that way; albeit you'll need more information than that.
Yeah, but "he's not generational" is kind of expected and implied. After so much abuse here, folks tend to assume someone even bringing up such a comparison is just being a homer rather than being someone who has a propensity for stating the obvious.

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09-12-2012, 03:02 AM
  #218
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in the 2010 draft i wanted us to draft Fowler. I've never been shy about saying that. I was Gudbranson's biggest critic on the Panthers board this past season and was constantly bashed over there for it. the first half of the season he was absolutely awful. terrible, constant turnovers and poor positioning.

as the season wore on he got better, alot better, to the point where, when Garrison got hurt for two games in the playoffs, Gudbranson is the guy Dineen tapped on the shoulder to replace him on the top pair with Campbell. as a 19 year old....in the playoffs. and he did well with the assignment.

i'd still probably rather have Fowler at this point, but i'll be the first to admit that Gudbranson improved ten-fold as the season wore on and if he continues to improve in that fashion, he could be a pretty damn good d man himself.

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09-12-2012, 08:00 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
Was Brian Leetch in the same league as Scott Stevens ?
Yes, and Gudbranson is nowhere near as good as Stevens, especially offensively

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09-12-2012, 08:53 AM
  #220
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Yes, and Gudbranson is nowhere near as good as Stevens, especially offensively
from 1994 and on, IE modern NHL, Scott Stevens high in points was 31. This was the last ten years of his career. You can say I am not taking into account the beginning of his career which he regularly put up points but this was a time when scoring was being done at a higher pace. The last ten years of his career more accurately portrays what the NHL is today.How do you know he will not be as good offensively after his rookie year in which he played 5/6 pair minutes ? How do you know need he will not be as good defensively? we don't even know if he will become a bust and play on the 5/6 th pair his whole career. All we can do is project his tool set and if you do that then there is no reason why he can't be like a Stevens or a Weber.

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09-12-2012, 08:53 AM
  #221
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Do you skip words when you read ? which part of "I DOUBT" did you not understand
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Originally Posted by IceManCat View Post
Is there reading comprehension issues going on in Canada? where did you see me say he will get 70 points? Summer break is over try reading more carefully.
The fact that you threw out "I doubt he ever hits 70-80 points" means you at least considered the possibility. Just sayin'.

Yeah, personal attacks aren't cool. Try to stay on topic.

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09-12-2012, 09:06 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Yeah, but "he's not generational" is kind of expected and implied. After so much abuse here, folks tend to assume someone even bringing up such a comparison is just being a homer rather than being someone who has a propensity for stating the obvious.

Maybe you personally assumed it to be obvious, if you did thats great; the OP is trying to figure what kind of projections Gudbranson will have since he didn't meet the "high expectations" that were there before the year started. I was simply describing the "high" point totals of a Karlsson and Green and stating that Gudbranson will not be that player. If you already knew that Kudos for having that knowledge, perhaps the OP assumed that Gudbranson will be a highly offensive player. Neither of us know what the OP's expectations for output are.

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09-12-2012, 09:07 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
The fact that you threw out "I doubt he ever hits 70-80 points" means you at least considered the possibility. Just sayin'.

Yeah, personal attacks aren't cool. Try to stay on topic.
maybe it seemed that way to you. I apologize for the attacks

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01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
  #224
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where has he been? scratched?

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01-21-2013, 09:15 PM
  #225
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where has he been? scratched?
injured, recovering from a shoulder injury

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players...ge/1770920/rss

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