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Jets sign Spencer Machacek [Mod Note: Signing Confirmation post #12]

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Old
09-11-2012, 03:44 PM
  #26
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1yr 525k 2way deal by the sounds of it

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09-11-2012, 03:59 PM
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1yr 525k 2way deal by the sounds of it
Ken Wiebe says one-year, two-way deal worth $575,000

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09-11-2012, 04:10 PM
  #28
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Good term and value, in my opinion. We have a number of guys that we are going to have some decisions to make on next summer.

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09-11-2012, 04:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Why?

Mach is an okay bottom 6 player, but it like he is a perfect fit.

The 3rd line is full.

Gagnon has spent more time playing a defensive role.

Gagnon adds value due to positional flexibility and in the faceoff circle.

Mach seems to be the logical choice and has probably earned a shot, but I don't think he has proven to be anything special thus far.
The Jets have more than enough natural centers on the roster (Little, Jokinen, Antropov, Burmistrov, Slater, Wellwood, not to mention potentially Cormier/Scheifele).

Gagnon is a terrible NHL player. Really really really terrible. Small, slow, bad hands, bad defensively, struggles in almost all aspects of the game, cannot keep up. I don't get how him being not good enough to play top 6 even in the AHL is a plus (I assume that's what you mean by "spent time playing in a defensive role). He is not a defensive first type of player, he is just not good enough to play a top 6 role in St. John's it's not like he is a defensive player.

He was quite easily the worst player to don the new Jets uniform to date, by quite a margin as well, IMO. As I said, if the management cannot see that I would SERIOUSLY question their talent evaluating ability.

I was not making that much of a point about Machacek, but if it is on top of all the above factors, the reason Machacek is not in the NHL, it is just pouring salt in the wounds.

Anyways, back on topic. Love seeing Machacek being back, I seriously think he has very very solid Chad LaRose type upside (gritty, hardworking, knack for the net, 20-20 3rd line winger). Exactly what our 3rd line could use. Has been my favourite prospect we got from ATL since day 1.

Also MOD NOTE, I'm merging this with the signing thread, no need for two threads on Machacek on the top page.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-11-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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Old
09-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #30
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Yes we got someone who's almost 5x p/60 than Crosby!
Plan the parade!!

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09-11-2012, 04:45 PM
  #31
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Nice signing. Low risk. Opportunity there for Mach to step up and grab it. Up to him.

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09-11-2012, 04:53 PM
  #32
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Machoman would be happy.


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Old
09-11-2012, 04:56 PM
  #33
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I say one of Mach/Maxwell wil join Thor and Mittens will circle the 4th line around Slater's wing for most of the year.

Cormier will most likely stay one more year before he kicks out one of the above (fingers crossed for Thorburn).

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09-11-2012, 05:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The Jets have more than enough natural centers on the roster (Little, Jokinen, Antropov, Burmistrov, Slater, Wellwood, not to mention potentially Cormier/Scheifele).

Gagnon is a terrible NHL player. Really really really terrible. Small, slow, bad hands, bad defensively, struggles in almost all aspects of the game, cannot keep up. I don't get how him being not good enough to play top 6 even in the AHL is a plus (I assume that's what you mean by "spent time playing in a defensive role). He is not a defensive first type of player, he is just not good enough to play a top 6 role in St. John's it's not like he is a defensive player.

He was quite easily the worst player to don the new Jets uniform to date, by quite a margin as well, IMO. As I said, if the management cannot see that I would SERIOUSLY question their talent evaluating ability.

I was not making that much of a point about Machacek, but if it is on top of all the above factors, the reason Machacek is not in the NHL, it is just pouring salt in the wounds.

Anyways, back on topic. Love seeing Machacek being back, I seriously think he has very very solid Chad LaRose type upside (gritty, hardworking, knack for the net, 20-20 3rd line winger). Exactly what our 3rd line could use. Has been my favourite prospect we got from ATL since day 1.

Also MOD NOTE, I'm merging this with the signing thread, no need for two threads on Machacek on the top page.
I didn't have any issues with Gagnon when he played. Like most of our callups, Noel sheltered him heavily and I thought he played pretty well. I definitely didn't think he was the worst guy to suit up for the squad. I would save that title for Kenndel McArdel.

The numbers didn't hate Gagnon either. Obviously numbers in a small sample don't mean much, but Gagnon (statistically) played against slightly tougher opposition than Mach and faired far better better at possesion hockey. An On-Ice Shooting % of zero compared to Mach's 26.3 was the big difference.

The Jets do have a glut of centres, but only Slater is good at faceoffs.

I would favor Mach for the last roster spot, but I am not sold on him. Honestly, I'd rather have Fehr or just about anybody that has proven to do well in tough roles.

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09-11-2012, 05:11 PM
  #35
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Machoman would be happy.

Even better, Mach Sakurai

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09-11-2012, 05:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I didn't have any issues with Gagnon when he played. Like most of our callups, Noel sheltered him heavily and I thought he played pretty well. I definitely didn't think he was the worst guy to suit up for the squad. I would save that title for Kenndel McArdel.

The numbers didn't hate Gagnon either. Obviously numbers in a small sample don't mean much, but Gagnon (statistically) played against slightly tougher opposition than Mach and faired far better better at possesion hockey. An On-Ice Shooting % of zero compared to Mach's 26.3 was the big difference.

The Jets do have a glut of centres, but only Slater is good at faceoffs.

I would favor Mach for the last roster spot, but I am not sold on him. Honestly, I'd rather have Fehr or just about anybody that has proven to do well in tough roles.
Personally I think Mach>Gagnon. Although I agree with both of you, that neither will be a top6 or anything to be super excited about.

Re: face-offs... Yea but what line would either Mach or Gagnon play on. The 4th right?
Slater does quite well on the faceoff dot and Thor will prob be the other winger and he does quite well too (he used to be a centre too). So I'd take Mach over Gagnon there. The NHL data is just too small to compare, I'd only use it to show how Mach was flukey in his pts. Using AHL data I can say I'd bet Mach>Gagnon though.
Little has been above 50% before and I think that with less pressure on him he probably will be again. Burmi has gotten better. Jokinen is always terrible there.

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Old
09-11-2012, 05:24 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I didn't have any issues with Gagnon when he played. Like most of our callups, Noel sheltered him heavily and I thought he played pretty well. I definitely didn't think he was the worst guy to suit up for the squad. I would save that title for Kenndel McArdel.

The numbers didn't hate Gagnon either. Obviously numbers in a small sample don't mean much, but Gagnon (statistically) played against slightly tougher opposition than Mach and faired far better better at possesion hockey. An On-Ice Shooting % of zero compared to Mach's 26.3 was the big difference.

The Jets do have a glut of centres, but only Slater is good at faceoffs.

I would favor Mach for the last roster spot, but I am not sold on him. Honestly, I'd rather have Fehr or just about anybody that has proven to do well in tough roles.
This advanced stats thing is going too far on these boards, IMO. I thought I loved to stats, but man they are not the end all. Esspecially with 6 games, as you said. Hell did Gagnon even HAVE the puck for more than 5 seconds altogether? How do you get results out of that?

The eye test clearly reveals Gagnon was nowhere close to an NHL player. He could not make any plays, he could barely keep up to the damn play. And that was on top of being sheltered. He was awful in defensive zone coverages, got pushed around, did not make passes he needed too. He worked his ass off, but when you don't have the talent it doesn't matter at the NHL level.

McArdell could at least get after players and throw hits. He had decent enough wheels, and could hit. Nothing else at all, he was clearly nowhere close to NHL calibre either, but helluva lot more than Gagnon ever brought to the table. Do really think weak, slow handed Gagnon is going to be good at faceoffs at the NHL level? Really? Gimme a break.

Machacek is physical, likes to grind, wins board battles, decent getting the puck out (not great), scoring touch (obviously his stats were flukey last year, but has been top 3 on his team in goals the past 4 seasons in AHL), just average skater. He is perfect bottom 6 guy that can fill in in top 6 if needed, IMO. If he is given a real chance to play (Noel is freaking terrible with giving players ACTUAL chances to prove that they can play), he will be a fan favourite and key role player on this team I have no doubt. And Gagnon, if by some stupid miracle for him (not Jets fans), makes the team, he will be hated and derided as completely useless. Quote me on it if you want.

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Old
09-11-2012, 06:13 PM
  #38
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I'd guess it took this long 'cuz Machecek was wanting a 1 way deal. Wonder if it's a pretty high 2 way deal signed right after the NHL announced guys on 2 ways can play in the AHL in the event of a lockout without having to clear waivers to come back up when the lockout ends?

if he keeps playing the way he finished last year, he'll be gettign a decent raise next year!

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09-11-2012, 07:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
This advanced stats thing is going too far on these boards, IMO. I thought I loved to stats, but man they are not the end all. Esspecially with 6 games, as you said. Hell did Gagnon even HAVE the puck for more than 5 seconds altogether? How do you get results out of that?
Ironically I've been posting on this website when I'm suppose to be paying attention to my professor discuss errors cause by incorrect sample usage.

Can't speak for truck but I don't think that the "advance stats" has gone too far... just they can and sometimes are misused and abused. Just like all stats. But, we shouldn't let this get into a stats argument because I think I've been around long enough to guess that really Truck, you and myself really think the same thing for the most part and are just arguing over semantics.

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09-11-2012, 07:32 PM
  #40
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Atta boy Stomachache.

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09-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I didn't have any issues with Gagnon when he played. Like most of our callups, Noel sheltered him heavily and I thought he played pretty well. I definitely didn't think he was the worst guy to suit up for the squad. I would save that title for Kenndel McArdel.

The numbers didn't hate Gagnon either. Obviously numbers in a small sample don't mean much, but Gagnon (statistically) played against slightly tougher opposition than Mach and faired far better better at possesion hockey. An On-Ice Shooting % of zero compared to Mach's 26.3 was the big difference.

The Jets do have a glut of centres, but only Slater is good at faceoffs.

I would favor Mach for the last roster spot, but I am not sold on him. Honestly, I'd rather have Fehr or just about anybody that has proven to do well in tough roles.
Even taking out Machacek's unmaintainable shooting percentage, he played much better than Fehr did. Points aside, Machacek brought energy, some physicality, and brought a lot more to the table than Fehr.

Gagnon? I am with Holden. He is nowhere near NHL quality. The only reason his name is even mentioned is because he has a one way contract, even though that means absolutely nothing in regards to affecting his chances of staying in the NHL.

We would need Buff to eat 3 of our centres for Gagnon to even have a sniff.

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09-11-2012, 10:33 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
This advanced stats thing is going too far on these boards, IMO. I thought I loved to stats, but man they are not the end all. Esspecially with 6 games, as you said. Hell did Gagnon even HAVE the puck for more than 5 seconds altogether? How do you get results out of that?

The eye test clearly reveals Gagnon was nowhere close to an NHL player. He could not make any plays, he could barely keep up to the damn play. And that was on top of being sheltered. He was awful in defensive zone coverages, got pushed around, did not make passes he needed too. He worked his ass off, but when you don't have the talent it doesn't matter at the NHL level.

McArdell could at least get after players and throw hits. He had decent enough wheels, and could hit. Nothing else at all, he was clearly nowhere close to NHL calibre either, but helluva lot more than Gagnon ever brought to the table. Do really think weak, slow handed Gagnon is going to be good at faceoffs at the NHL level? Really? Gimme a break.

Machacek is physical, likes to grind, wins board battles, decent getting the puck out (not great), scoring touch (obviously his stats were flukey last year, but has been top 3 on his team in goals the past 4 seasons in AHL), just average skater. He is perfect bottom 6 guy that can fill in in top 6 if needed, IMO. If he is given a real chance to play (Noel is freaking terrible with giving players ACTUAL chances to prove that they can play), he will be a fan favourite and key role player on this team I have no doubt. And Gagnon, if by some stupid miracle for him (not Jets fans), makes the team, he will be hated and derided as completely useless. Quote me on it if you want.
I said the numbers meant nothing, so I am not sure how that is taking things too far?

As for the eye test, your eye test isn't final and is no way more or less valid than a small sample of data. I didn't think Gagnon played that poorly, per my own eye test. I thought the main difference was puck luck. The both generated about a shot per game. Neither guy blew me away.

I also said I like Mach better.

My point was that none of them are anything special and to me and claims that management would be a complete failure for picking one over the other is a little dramatic. Guess what, they did call up Gagnon at one point last year. He played seven games. It really doesn't mean anything and it didn't mean Chevy can't evaluate talent.

As for McArdel, he wasn't good enough to stick with a bad Florida team or a very shallow Jets team last year. I love his speed and his ability to hit, but he is kinda bad at hockey. He was also born in 87. There isn't much room for growth there.

Mach > Gag > Ken but I don't give a darn who gets called up first. I don't see anything all that special in any of them. Again, I do think Mach has slightly more upside, but Chevy isn't a failure if he brings up Gagnon because he is more useful on the PK.

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09-11-2012, 10:35 PM
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182lbs? Careful, Byfuglien might eat him

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09-12-2012, 01:01 AM
  #44
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182lbs? Careful, Byfuglien might eat him
well, if the other team are afraid of coming into our end because buff might eat them, works for us!

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09-12-2012, 02:30 AM
  #45
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I said the numbers meant nothing, so I am not sure how that is taking things too far?

As for the eye test, your eye test isn't final and is no way more or less valid than a small sample of data. I didn't think Gagnon played that poorly, per my own eye test. I thought the main difference was puck luck. The both generated about a shot per game. Neither guy blew me away.

I also said I like Mach better.

My point was that none of them are anything special and to me and claims that management would be a complete failure for picking one over the other is a little dramatic. Guess what, they did call up Gagnon at one point last year. He played seven games. It really doesn't mean anything and it didn't mean Chevy can't evaluate talent.

As for McArdel, he wasn't good enough to stick with a bad Florida team or a very shallow Jets team last year. I love his speed and his ability to hit, but he is kinda bad at hockey. He was also born in 87. There isn't much room for growth there.

Mach > Gag > Ken but I don't give a darn who gets called up first. I don't see anything all that special in any of them. Again, I do think Mach has slightly more upside, but Chevy isn't a failure if he brings up Gagnon because he is more useful on the PK.
Saying the difference between Machacek and Gagnon is puck luck is like saying the difference between Ryan (204 shots, 15.2%, 31g) and Chimera (205 shots, 9.8%, 20g) is just puck luck, IMO. Completely different players, completely different skill levels.

If McArdle is bad at hockey at the NHL level (which he is) what the hell is Gagnon who played at best a similiar 3rd line role in St. John's? Gagnon is small. He is slow. He has no hands. He cannot hit. He is average to bad defensively. He does not have a great shot or vision. He works his ass off every play. What the hell does he add to any roster?

Now Gagnon is more useful on the PK? Where did this come from? How is Gagnon anymore useful on the PK than Machacek?

I don't care about the call-up, even though I still think it was stupid, it was very limited and the realized their mistake soon after and recalled Machacek instead. I am talking about making the main roster, being there all year. Gagnon has an 86 birthday, he is not getting any better either.

And it is not just my eye test. It seems like most here agree, (let's ignore Machacek for a second), Gagnon is just nowhere close to being an NHL player. He is 3rd/4th line AHL depth. That's fine to have in the organization. Just don't make him an NHLer since they stupidly signed him to a one-way contract.

If you could not see the massive difference (IMO) between the effectiveness of Machacek and Gagnon at making an impact in a game (and I am not talking about the lucky stats of Machacek despite the fact that they had to come from somewhere), well me and you are just too many miles apart on this to ever come within a continent of each other.

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09-12-2012, 02:39 AM
  #46
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Can't believe this thread has an actual debate about who is more useful between Gagnon and Machacek.

I realize the Jets only have 1 year under their belt but did no one actually watch the inaugural season?..

Plainly put, Gagnon is garbage and Machacek is not.

When the season actually starts I imagine the 4th line will be:

Mach-Slater-Thor

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09-12-2012, 03:02 AM
  #47
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Can't believe this thread has an actual debate about who is more useful between Gagnon and Machacek.

I realize the Jets only have 1 year under their belt but did no one actually watch the inaugural season?..

Plainly put, Gagnon is garbage and Machacek is not.

When the season actually starts I imagine the 4th line will be:

Mach-Slater-Thor
Oh my god.... It's the MTS line!

But really, Machacek is by far the better and more useful player.

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09-12-2012, 06:33 AM
  #48
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Can't believe this thread has an actual debate about who is more useful between Gagnon and Machacek.

I realize the Jets only have 1 year under their belt but did no one actually watch the inaugural season?..

Plainly put, Gagnon is garbage and Machacek is not.

When the season actually starts I imagine the 4th line will be:

Mach-Slater-Thor
Agree on all points. Good/fair price for a player I expect to be a regular this season.

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09-12-2012, 08:07 AM
  #49
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Atta boy Stomachache.
Is that you sam or do the soldiers of stomachache have a new recruit?

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09-12-2012, 08:23 AM
  #50
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I think the main concern isnt that machacek is better then gagnon if you look NO one has said otherwise. Its the levek of reaction against one or the oher thats bizarre. Both are unlikely to score over twenty five points and both would be getting less then 6 minutes of icetime.

The bluster over which fourth liner you like is ridiculous. In my eye test gagnon did not look.miles behind machacek. He looked worse but not to the point where id " call for new management" if it was g over m. If thats the straw that breaks the camels back for you, just call for managements head now.

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