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Old
09-11-2012, 04:11 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I can definitely see this being lopsided in 2-3 seasons for Columbus.
I don't. Fair at most unless Erixon becomes Lidstrom. We opened up cap for Nash, and we had to make a good deal. This was as good as they come. (Wait...Gainey says hey, folks.) But at the end of the day, we can be a contender for many more years, especially win the next 2-4. We added an Elite scorer, and opened space up for a more than likely great player in Kreider. We even got a pick and Deslisle, who could get pretty good, or good enough.

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09-11-2012, 04:32 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I can definitely see this being lopsided in 2-3 seasons for Columbus.
If Erixon developes into a strong top 4 defenseman, and they somehow strike gold with the late first rounder (CBJ is usually pretty lousy at drafting,) then it might be close to fair. Let's be honest here - I'm not saying they can't improve, but we have a pretty good idea what Dubi and AA are at this point...

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09-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #28
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Really with the Gomez/Nash trade comparisons? What exactly is one trying to accomplish by comparing two completely different trades involving completely different players?

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09-11-2012, 04:57 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
you can?

really?

lopsided?
Yes

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i could see it eventually becoming a fair deal..but lopsided in their favor?

barring injury...how exactly would you see that? You'd have to have 2 players in Anisimov and Dubinsky suddenly become something theyve never become in NY, consistent scorers...AA is a 15-18 goal scorer, and dubi is more like a 20 goal scorer. Dubi makes what...almost 5 mil a year? something like that? Next year AA is going to make 3-4 mil himself. its not like its McD coming in with an entry level deal for 3 full seasons for us. Tim Erixon is the wildcard, but you have to give to get...unless Tim Erixon becomes the next Nik Lidstrom, I dont see how this ever becomes lopsided in their favor.
Dubinsky makes 4.2m.

AA I believe has definite upside and I believe he is the main piece in this trade. There is really no denying his talent level, not to mention his quality defensive play. He never really got an oppurtunity as the go to guy or staying on the #1 pp unit. Kesler was nothing more than a 40 pt 2-way player at the age of 23, same with Anisimov. Not saying he's the next Kesler, but I'd be shocked if his numbers don't expectorate with more given opportunities in Columbus. He has two Russian mentors in Tyutin and Nikitin, who are both stud defensemen. Tyutin IMO will have a big impact on Anisimov in a role to help him adapt to the Jackets.

Last yr, I'm not sure if it was an aberration for Dubi, I think he's come down to Earth. Still a very valuable asset with his puck protection skills, that alone will benefit CBJ at both ends of the rink.

And Erixon is top 30 prospect league wide. I could potentially see him being a guy like Kim Johnsson. Top pair guy who can effectively rush the puck up, play the point on the PP, but doesn't have stellar creativity to be a big time point producer, but also has trouble with bigger forwards. I feel bad since he is the exact opposite of what the 'system' thrives for.

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Nash has scored less than 30 goals what...like twice in his career? something like that?
Sure he's a great goal scorer, but Dany Heatley was twice the goal scorer at the time of his trade. Imagine if EDM gave up Penner, Smid and Cogliano for him, that would've set that franchise back even further.

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This isnt scott gomez. its the same thing when we got Brad Richards or Marian Gaborik. ppl were talking about how it would cripple us or what not. how? you pay great players what they are worth. Richards, after his slow start, was producing at a 93 point level after finally being put with Gabby. Gabby was what...3rd in the league in goals scored? has scored 40+ goals in 2 of his 3 years here...
I am big fan of both Gaborik and Richards, but not Nash.

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Nash will be fine. barring a major injury or somehow the guys we gave up becoming players they never showed the ability to become here...i just dont see how your sentence is anything other than typical ranger paranoia.
You're assuming Nash will be fine. I have my doubts whether or not he can play on a contending team in which he'll get benched and scrutinized by the media if he goes through a slump. Time will tell.

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Old
09-11-2012, 04:59 PM
  #30
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The only comparison I'm willing to make is that of McD and Erixon.

Think both can have extremely productive NHL careers. The only reason I think Erixon was traded was because we already have 3 left handed defensive players, as well as (down the road) our first round pick from this past draft... if he develops correctly.

I don't think Sather traded him because he thinks he's overhyped and will fizzle out. To be honest, I think he tried to put him in a situation where he will be in an excellent area to succeed. Erixon will go in there immediately and have a top 4 role in that defense. After a few years he's free to leave if he wants and some other team will pick him up.

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09-11-2012, 05:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
If we win 1 cup in the next 2-3 seasons it won't matter if it is. This team is close and had the assets to take a calculated risk.
Not a firm believer in this type of analogy.

But I agree that it was a risk that was needed to be taken.

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09-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Lemme guess. In the future, you might see:

Dubinsky: 50 points
Anisimov: 50 points
Erixon: 30 points

Nash: 70 points

130 points vs. 70 points = lopsided

Thats the extend of your analysis, Im assuming.
Nope.

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09-11-2012, 05:09 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Sure he's a great goal scorer, but Dany Heatley was twice the goal scorer at the time of his trade. Imagine if EDM gave up Penner, Smid and Cogliano for him, that would've set that franchise back even further.


I am big fan of both Gaborik and Richards, but not Nash.
Dany Heatley is a different player than Nash. He has a different mind set and work ethic. Nash is amazing, and carried a **** team on his back while still putting up good numbers and keeping the Jacket fans happy with his performances. Nash is a smooth skater and has even smoother hands and hit shot is nothing short of amazing. IMO he's a far better all around player than Heatley. I can see what you mean about him being benched or criticized, but at the same time, you can see this as a blessing that we have an elite goal scorer now who can provide goals that Duby and Anisimov simply could not.

It's a "glass half empty/full" situation and we can agree to disagree, but I do have to ask, why do you not like Nash?

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09-11-2012, 05:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
Dany Heatley is a different player than Nash. He has a different mind set and work ethic. Nash is amazing, and carried a **** team on his back while still putting up good numbers and keeping the Jacket fans happy with his performances. Nash is a smooth skater and has even smoother hands and hit shot is nothing short of amazing. IMO he's a far better all around player than Heatley. I can see what you mean about him being benched or criticized, but at the same time, you can see this as a blessing that we have an elite goal scorer now who can provide goals that Duby and Anisimov simply could not.

It's a "glass half empty/full" situation and we can agree to disagree, but I do have to ask, why do you not like Nash?
Where did Nash carry his team? To only 1 playoff appearance in his NHL career?

How did he make CBJ fans happy? He's the one who requested a trade didn't deny it within the media. That is absolutely classless. You essentially bone your team in leverage in a trade scenario.

Good numbers? With the way media hypes up Rick Nash, I honestly expected him to be a 40-50g player. He has one season over 70 pts in his career. And last season had nearly identical PPG with Callahan, who plays much tougher minutes.

Heatley was a much better player than Nash at that time of the trade than Nash is now. Obviously, that has changed since.

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Old
09-11-2012, 05:23 PM
  #35
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the only similarities I see is that Sather made both deals...

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09-11-2012, 05:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Where did Nash carry his team? To only 1 playoff appearance in his NHL career?

How did he make CBJ fans happy? He's the one who requested a trade didn't deny it within the media. That is absolutely classless. You essentially bone your team in leverage in a trade scenario.

Good numbers? With the way media hypes up Rick Nash, I honestly expected him to be a 40-50g player. He has one season over 70 pts in his career. And last season had nearly identical PPG with Callahan, who plays much tougher minutes.

Heatley was a much better player than Nash at that time of the trade than Nash is now. Obviously, that has changed since.
Well he didn't carry his team to the playoffs or a cup, obviously, but he carried them by being one of the best players on that team since he came to the NHL. He was their franchise player for a reason. You can carry a ****** team and not make the playoffs simply by being an excellent player.

CBJ fans loved him (is what i meant), you could tell by all the Nash trade rumor threads and what they had to say about him. Go PM a Jackets fan and ask if they liked Nash when he played there. He was worth the moon to them. And for good reason.

He's had some solid points for the team he played on. And if you watch him play (im not saying you haven't) you can see that he's much more talented than his numbers show. Nash is an incredible player and sometimes I feel that people underrate him because of all the negativity surrounding the trade fiasco. I want to know why you don't like Nash. Why do you think he won't exceed here?

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09-11-2012, 06:15 PM
  #37
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Nash is only a franchise player since the standards are so low in Columbus, in fact they had no previous standards before Nash except maybe David Vyborny.

He isn't miles better than a guy like Hemsky, and he was Edmonton's best player for a while. No one dared to call him a franchise player.

It doesn't help that the Canadian media has a big boner for him. Apparently, Nash is a 'winner', plays 'the right way', has size and is a top 10 player in the league. (lol). He's a media darling. He gets overrated, just like another Canadian marketing boy like Trevor Linden did. It doesn't help that you have morons like Doug MacLean, who gloats whenever he has a chance about drafting Rick Nash, is on one of the most high profile sports networks in Canada.

CBJ fans were deluded all those years from their management that Nash was a player you can build a team around. Of course they would want a high return for him.

I don't hate Nash the person, but I just am pretty sick of the media hyping him up. I called Nash the most overrated player last year too.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=50

So, I don't have any personal bias against the human, but not a big fan of the player at that cap commitment.

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09-11-2012, 06:19 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Nash is only a franchise player since the standards are so low in Columbus, in fact they had no previous standards before Nash except maybe David Vyborny.

He isn't miles better than a guy like Hemsky, and he was Edmonton's best player for a while. No one dared to call him a franchise player.

It doesn't help that the Canadian media has a big boner for him. Apparently, Nash is a 'winner', plays 'the right way', has size and is a top 10 player in the league. (lol). He's a media darling. He gets overrated, just like another Canadian marketing boy like Trevor Linden did. It doesn't help that you have morons like Doug MacLean, who gloats whenever he has a chance about drafting Rick Nash, is on one of the most high profile sports networks in Canada.

CBJ fans were deluded all those years from their management that Nash was a player you can build a team around. Of course they would want a high return for him.

I don't hate Nash the person, but I just am pretty sick of the media hyping him up. I called Nash the most overrated player last year too.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=50

So, I don't have any personal bias against the human, but not a big fan of the player at that cap commitment.
10 bucks you love failborik

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09-11-2012, 06:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
10 bucks you love failborik
Nash can't sniff Gaborik's jock. It will be evident during the season.

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09-11-2012, 06:36 PM
  #40
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Nash is gonna open some eyes this season.

Lockout permitting.

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09-11-2012, 06:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Nash is only a franchise player since the standards are so low in Columbus, in fact they had no previous standards before Nash except maybe David Vyborny.

He isn't miles better than a guy like Hemsky, and he was Edmonton's best player for a while. No one dared to call him a franchise player.

It doesn't help that the Canadian media has a big boner for him. Apparently, Nash is a 'winner', plays 'the right way', has size and is a top 10 player in the league. (lol). He's a media darling. He gets overrated, just like another Canadian marketing boy like Trevor Linden did. It doesn't help that you have morons like Doug MacLean, who gloats whenever he has a chance about drafting Rick Nash, is on one of the most high profile sports networks in Canada.

CBJ fans were deluded all those years from their management that Nash was a player you can build a team around. Of course they would want a high return for him.

I don't hate Nash the person, but I just am pretty sick of the media hyping him up. I called Nash the most overrated player last year too.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=50

So, I don't have any personal bias against the human, but not a big fan of the player at that cap commitment.
I see what you're saying, I'm not arguing with you because we're pretty much debating opinions and I agree that his cap makes him a risk because im betting everything that he'll produce, but if he doesn't, it's going to hurt big time. I like Nash a lot and in my opinion he's going to excel here. He was over valued by the CJB fans, of course, we all do that. But I was just pointing out that they did think very highly of him.

I would just ask you to be patient, because I highly doubt you will be disappointed. He's the type of player who has so much talent but no one around him to feed off of. I think putting him on this team and surrounding him with our players will make him better.

The only reason why I say that, is because this Ranger team we have is a different team from the one some of us are used to. This team wins no matter who is out or in. They make each other better and I think Nash will fit right in and do what he does best. Score goals and make amazing plays. Then again, that's what I'm hoping.

He is really really good though and I think you'll be pleased.

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Old
09-11-2012, 06:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Nash can't sniff Gaborik's jock. It will be evident during the season.
this is true, failborik does alot of things nash cant, like missing open nets, board play, net presence, ability and willingness to go to the dirty areas, bumped off pucks by what i can only describe as force wielding d men... oh wait

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09-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #43
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I didn't really create this thread to start a whole debate about the talent levels of Nash, Gomez, McD, Erixon or any other players...
I just wanted to point out some similar characteristics I noticed about the trade, some similar numbers, and potential similar impact.

Nash and Gomez had almost identical PPG total in season prior to trade. (Both 'down' compared to recent years)
Their contracts are very similar numbers-wise (both can be considered overpaid-but thats a debate issue)
McD and Erixon were both considered their team's #1 defense prospect prior to trades
Higgins and Dubinsky both coming off down years.

None of that above has anything to do with talent, but they are FACTS and they are similarities. That can't be denied. These were odd similarities that when I noticed them, I thought I'd post them...Sorry to get some people all hot.

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Old
09-11-2012, 07:16 PM
  #44
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No one's hot man. I like a good hockey debate or conversation from time to time so no worries man. It's been discussed already though, the similarities between the two trades. I guess the topic got derailed and I can't speak for anyone else but i was just having good old healthy hockey talk. No need to worry.

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Old
09-11-2012, 07:18 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Nope.
Thanks, saw your reasoning above.

Its just that you think Anisimov and Dubinsky are better players than they actually are, especially Anisimov.

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Old
09-11-2012, 07:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Nash can't sniff Gaborik's jock. It will be evident during the season.
Care to make a wager on that? Especially considering Gaborik is made of glass and coming off a major shoulder injury?

Nash will pot between 35 and 40 in the top 6 with the Rangers - Gaborik territory. The difference is Gaborik has been, is, and forever will be pretty useless outside of the (yes, very valuable) 40 goals hes capable of scoring.


Last edited by Bleed Ranger Blue: 09-11-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
09-11-2012, 07:24 PM
  #47
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The only similarity I see between these two trades is that Sather won both of them.

(I won't call the Nash trade a fleecing yet)

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09-11-2012, 07:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
No one's hot man. I like a good hockey debate or conversation from time to time so no worries man. It's been discussed already though, the similarities between the two trades. I guess the topic got derailed and I can't speak for anyone else but i was just having good old healthy hockey talk. No need to worry.
haha thanks i felt like people were jumping on me cause I was comparing talent levels which wasn't my intention at all with this thread...this is a good place for hockey talk

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Old
09-11-2012, 07:53 PM
  #49
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You can't deny that this trade has a boom or bust feel to it.

Stars who are coming off subpar seasons who get traded to the Rangers rarely pan out like we thought they would.

The difference is two-fold: a) the Rangers are an above-average team with or without Nash, Dubi and AA and b) the Rangers have org depth to stomach the loss in a year or two

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09-11-2012, 07:55 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
this is true, failborik does alot of things nash cant, like missing open nets, board play, net presence, ability and willingness to go to the dirty areas, bumped off pucks by what i can only describe as force wielding d men... oh wait
Wow I just wonder how Gaborik is a nhl player in the first play. After all you listed his flaws, how is it even possible that he was 3rd in goals last yr and team leading scorer....

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