HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Evander Kane Proposal Thread (keep it here)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-09-2012, 07:26 PM
  #576
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,293
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurdFerguson View Post
I have no problem with most of what you said, but Nash didn't exactly have leverage either. He was locked up for 6 years at the time of the trade. I suppose he had slightly more leverage than kane because of the cap hit, but teams never have to trade their stars when they ask. They do anyways, and its often at a loss.

I still want Kane to stay in Winnipeg, we don't know if he wants to stay there or not. The reason he hasn't signed can be any number of things: CBA, money, other contract negotiation issues, or maybe he doesn't like Winnipeg. I'm not gonna speculate what it is, but time will tell.
Nash had a NTC, and the Blue Jacket GM made the colossal error of speaking publicly about the situation. He basically made it impossible for Nash to come back and play in Columbus.

Huffer is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 06:07 AM
  #577
Pongs21
Registered User
 
Pongs21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 169
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Taking everything into account
Marc Staal + Michael St. Croix
for
Evander Kane + Paul Postma

Jets say they want serious shutdown D, lefty to match Buf. DONE BIG TIME. plus he's developing what is a serious shot.
Jets would like scorers bottom 6 Ws. St. Croix has legit potential, he's a C technically, but close enough.

Rangers don't have an extra Staal to spare, but obtaining a talent like Kane would give three dominating lines, plus an energetic checking 4th. As to D, NY is desperate for righty D, so this helps with a 6th [2nd righty behind Girardi + Stralman]. Also, on prior thread, Hawk fans even split about Boyle + Biron for Olsen + 4th; even if secondary pieces are replaced, something around Boyle + for Olsen should fly. McIrath also later this year or next, so this works on paper.

Additionally, I'm in the minority here, but I predict speedster JT Miller is a better natural fit with Kreider/Hagelin +Callahan, meaning I could see Stepan as centerpiece going to the yotes for Yandle to help offset sacrifice of Staal.

Also depending upon what competition will pay, the Kings A Martinez may be available not cheap, but reasonably for futures.

Rangers can't take on too many big salaries, but should be able to do this. In about 4 yrs Richards salary can be moved.

The one key is that NYR must get a month free and clear to see if they can sign him for a reasonable length, which is only fair given Staal has 3 more years left.

I had considered other variations which paid more, which assumed Kane would re-up for certain, so Winnipeg moves him just because it's profitable, and does a sign and trade available to NY on good terms, decent length deal, decent numbers. That much overpayment is not necessary given Kane not jumping to re-sign, and Rangers would have to negotiate their own deal.
We already have enough bottom 6. A deal with the Rangers and Jets for Kane is going to start with Kreider.

More like:
Kreider + Stall +1st

Kane + Postma

Pongs21 is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 06:22 AM
  #578
Inflict
Viking
 
Inflict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongs21 View Post
We already have enough bottom 6. A deal with the Rangers and Jets for Kane is going to start with Kreider.

More like:
Kreider + Stall +1st

Kane + Postma
As a Jets fan, this would be an absolute steal but the Rangers are giving up WAY too much. Winnipeg would need to add even if we removed the 1st.

Inflict is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 12:29 PM
  #579
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inflict View Post
As a Jets fan, this would be an absolute steal but the Rangers are giving up WAY too much. Winnipeg would need to add even if we removed the 1st.
Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 12:46 PM
  #580
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pongs21 View Post
We already have enough bottom 6. A deal with the Rangers and Jets for Kane is going to start with Kreider.

More like:
Kreider + Stall +1st

Kane + Postma
Big time no.

We can talk about an alternate to St. Croix.

But Kreider is virtually untouchable. Granted, E Kane is a proven commodity. But we don't know the upside to Kreider yet. It might be higher. Both are big and strong, but CK is way faster skater than EK. Plus Kreider is beginning his ELC.

I would have an open mind to even considering trading him after a year or two and we get an idea of his ceiling, but not before, unless either Malkin or Stamkos is coming back.

Additionally, Staal is the best shut down D --- not the best overall D, just the best shut down D --- in the league, and if you don't extract a premium before from the Canes, you can get three full years under his contract.

So I consider that full value for EK.

If there were some sign and trade parallel, where you got him to sign 4-6 years on terms that Rangers ok'd beforehand, then we'd have to add some kind of premium for your trouble.

But that is not the case here. We get a brief discussion period to see if he would agree to an extension upon being traded. Jets are not otherwise put out. So no additional comp is in order.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 01:24 PM
  #581
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Big time no.

We can talk about an alternate to St. Croix.

But Kreider is virtually untouchable. Granted, E Kane is a proven commodity. But we don't know the upside to Kreider yet. It might be higher. Both are big and strong, but CK is way faster skater than EK. Plus Kreider is beginning his ELC.

I would have an open mind to even considering trading him after a year or two and we get an idea of his ceiling, but not before, unless either Malkin or Stamkos is coming back.

Additionally, Staal is the best shut down D --- not the best overall D, just the best shut down D --- in the league, and if you don't extract a premium before from the Canes, you can get three full years under his contract.

So I consider that full value for EK.

If there were some sign and trade parallel, where you got him to sign 4-6 years on terms that Rangers ok'd beforehand, then we'd have to add some kind of premium for your trouble.

But that is not the case here. We get a brief discussion period to see if he would agree to an extension upon being traded. Jets are not otherwise put out. So no additional comp is in order.
though i heartily disagree on your assessment of Kreider vs Kane, the above was definitely far too much. Again it the bizarre hf tenancy to think that the potential of being better then player x means prospect y is worth more (when in all likelihood it is usually far more likely that prospect y becomes much less then player x).

now its may be semantics but your post kind of read like you wouldn't even except kane for kreider, which seems bizarre, but this is neither here nor there.

My issue is postma is far closer (and more likely imo) to becoming an NHL player then st croix. I think St Croix is a long shot to be anything (from discussions with some ranger fans) where's Postma has already earned himself a one way (of course that doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but it's a good measurement of where the organization sees him).

What is Hagelins worth? What would be added on Winnipeg side or is that just pie in the sky dreaming? Besides the fact that he's from Winnipeg, I can't see why we (or any organization) would target st croix, I definitely feel a piece more likely to be a player of any sort would need to be coming back.

Grind is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 01:51 PM
  #582
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,293
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
but CK is way faster skater than EK.
Really? And not just faster, but he's way faster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I would have an open mind to even considering trading him after a year or two and we get an idea of his ceiling, but not before, unless either Malkin or Stamkos is coming back.
So you would only trade Kreider for Malkin or Stamkos? That's where you place his value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Additionally, Staal is the best shut down D --- not the best overall D, just the best shut down D --- in the league
I think that there are quite a few defensemen you are forgetting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
So I consider that full value for EK.
Staal is a very good defenseman, but the Jets would not be trading Kane for him. The Jets wouldn't trade Kane for Kreider alone either, but I guess we won't have to worry about it considering Kreider is only available for Malkin or Stamkos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
If there were some sign and trade parallel, where you got him to sign 4-6 years on terms that Rangers ok'd beforehand, then we'd have to add some kind of premium for your trouble.

But that is not the case here. We get a brief discussion period to see if he would agree to an extension upon being traded. Jets are not otherwise put out. So no additional comp is in order.
What does any of the above have to do with Kane being a RFA? If Kane was traded he would be under his new teams control for 4 more years.

Huffer is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 09:42 PM
  #583
Rocket of Russia
Defender of Tang
 
Rocket of Russia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Big time no.

We can talk about an alternate to St. Croix.

But Kreider is virtually untouchable. Granted, E Kane is a proven commodity. But we don't know the upside to Kreider yet. It might be higher. Both are big and strong, but CK is way faster skater than EK. Plus Kreider is beginning his ELC.

I would have an open mind to even considering trading him after a year or two and we get an idea of his ceiling, but not before, unless either Malkin or Stamkos is coming back.

Additionally, Staal is the best shut down D --- not the best overall D, just the best shut down D --- in the league, and if you don't extract a premium before from the Canes, you can get three full years under his contract.

So I consider that full value for EK.

If there were some sign and trade parallel, where you got him to sign 4-6 years on terms that Rangers ok'd beforehand, then we'd have to add some kind of premium for your trouble.

But that is not the case here. We get a brief discussion period to see if he would agree to an extension upon being traded. Jets are not otherwise put out. So no additional comp is in order.
That's pure looney tunes. E. Kane way slower than Kreider, Staal the best shut-down D in the league, and Kreider only considered to be involved in a trade if Malkin or Stamkos are coming in exchange. Dear god, I've lost faith in mankind.

Rocket of Russia is offline  
Old
09-10-2012, 10:24 PM
  #584
allan5oh
#Dive4Five #31Buyout
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,351
vCash: 50
How fast is Kreider?

Kane did a lap in 14.06 while getting water bottles thrown at him. That would've put him as winner of the NHL skills competition fastest skater from 2007-2011. In 2012 they changed the format.

I'd say Kane is top 3 in the league.

allan5oh is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 02:45 AM
  #585
Paradise
Individual thinker
 
Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Waiverpeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Big time no.

We can talk about an alternate to St. Croix.

But Kreider is virtually untouchable. Granted, E Kane is a proven commodity. But we don't know the upside to Kreider yet. It might be higher. Both are big and strong, but CK is way faster skater than EK. Plus Kreider is beginning his ELC.

I would have an open mind to even considering trading him after a year or two and we get an idea of his ceiling, but not before, unless either Malkin or Stamkos is coming back.

Additionally, Staal is the best shut down D --- not the best overall D, just the best shut down D --- in the league, and if you don't extract a premium before from the Canes, you can get three full years under his contract.

So I consider that full value for EK.

If there were some sign and trade parallel, where you got him to sign 4-6 years on terms that Rangers ok'd beforehand, then we'd have to add some kind of premium for your trouble.

But that is not the case here. We get a brief discussion period to see if he would agree to an extension upon being traded. Jets are not otherwise put out. So no additional comp is in order.
Thought's like this are best to be keep inside your own head. The level of your homerism is beyond help, so there's no point in continuing in this discussion. Have yourself a nice rest.

Paradise is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 08:19 AM
  #586
blinkman360
Back to Basics
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guido Central
Country: United States
Posts: 8,892
vCash: 500
From the Islanders, I'd probably offer Nelson, deHaan and our 2013 1st. I doubt either of Strome or Reinhart would be available.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 08:43 AM
  #587
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
From the Islanders, I'd probably offer Nelson, deHaan and our 2013 1st. I doubt either of Strome or Reinhart would be available.
For anything not included at least one of those two, i doubt that E Kane would be available... you want you core you give young core.

Grind is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 08:51 AM
  #588
blinkman360
Back to Basics
 
blinkman360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Guido Central
Country: United States
Posts: 8,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
For anything not included at least one of those two, i doubt that E Kane would be available... you want you core you give young core.
Kane would be a luxury more than anything. We need a 2nd line center(Strome) and a big franchise defender(Reinhart). We don't necessarily need Kane. I'd love to have him, which is why I'd offer that kind of package, but trading one of the big-2 would fill a hole by opening another.

blinkman360 is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:00 AM
  #589
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 4,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Kane would be a luxury more than anything. We need a 2nd line center(Strome) and a big franchise defender(Reinhart). We don't necessarily need Kane. I'd love to have him, which is why I'd offer that kind of package, but trading one of the big-2 would fill a hole by opening another.
likewise for winnipeg, there's no reason to move him (besides unsubstantiated rumors). Kane is not really a luxury for Winnipeg, so they'd certainly be after a core piece coming back.

Grind is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 09:32 AM
  #590
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
From the Islanders, I'd probably offer Nelson, deHaan and our 2013 1st. I doubt either of Strome or Reinhart would be available.


I think that Snow would be all over this type of deal.

Suddenly, rw would be a team strength with Kane/KO/Nino.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 10:17 AM
  #591
vBurmi
Blue-Line Dekes
 
vBurmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Greater Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,408
vCash: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
From the Islanders, I'd probably offer Nelson, deHaan and our 2013 1st. I doubt either of Strome or Reinhart would be available.
I doubt Kane would be available then. You're lucky if Strome and Reinhart develop as well as Kane did - that's not a knock on either of them, just a reminder that prospects often don't work out as we hope. It seems many here are forgetting Kane himself was a top prospect drafted 4th overall who has developed about as well as you could hope. He's easily worth any top prospect outside of the elite first-overall caliber ones.

From the Islanders, based on previous discussion here, I'd say the price would roughly be two of: Strome, Reinhart, 2013 1st.

vBurmi is offline  
Old
09-11-2012, 10:19 AM
  #592
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vBurmi View Post
From the Islanders, based on previous discussion here, I'd say the price would roughly be two of: Strome, Reinhart, 2013 1st.
Don't you think it is more likely to be one of those pieces plus an established NHLer and a 2nd / B prospect? That seems a more traditional structure.

There's too much risk for both sides in something based only on futures.

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 08:04 AM
  #593
Benne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 10
vCash: 500
Plekanec-Evander Kane

Considering a trade around Plekanec and Evander Kane, which team should have to offer more?


Last edited by caley: 09-12-2012 at 08:44 AM.
Benne is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 08:08 AM
  #594
Sabreality
Registered User
 
Sabreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,826
vCash: 500
Montreal adds +++

Sabreality is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 08:14 AM
  #595
Thundermare
Registered User
 
Thundermare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
Montreal adds +++
Not only Mtl would have to add more... but don't even think this is a good basis

Thundermare is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 08:24 AM
  #596
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
 
Le Magnifique 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,233
vCash: 500
Speculation? And Montreal would need to add big time. To get Kane it would most probably cost Paccioretty witch wouldn't make any sense, both teams are just better off keeping their respective players

Le Magnifique 66 is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 08:46 AM
  #597
King Woodballs
MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
King Woodballs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Your Mind
Posts: 32,148
vCash: 50
montreal is going to need to a bunch.

but I don't think the bunch is there too add.

Habs wont trade PK, Patch, or Price.

Which is what would probably needed

King Woodballs is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 09:08 AM
  #598
seafoam
#hewenttoharvard
 
seafoam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 34,915
vCash: 50
Why? You have your first line LW.

seafoam is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 09:11 AM
  #599
thadd
Oil4Life
 
thadd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,940
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to thadd
Montreal can't afford to give up the depth at center and they'd have to give up another very significant piece. Wouldn't be worth their while.

thadd is offline  
Old
09-12-2012, 09:12 AM
  #600
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,496
vCash: 500
Montreal would need to add, but really doesn't yet have the developed depth to be able to afford to add, so it ultimately wouldn't work out.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.