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I just tried trading subban and a first to Florida for gudbranson on NHL 13 and they said no dice, (they said they were totally unwilling to give up what I asked of them, unless I REALLY want to make it worth their while).
I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence right there.
I was comparing both of their rookie seasons... and considering Montreal finished with more points and a better goal differential than Florida 2 years ago, a -8 is comparable.
And Subban's 38 points in his rookie season compared to Gudbranson's 8? Subban's 22min's/game vs Gudbranson's 14 min's/game? What exactly is comparable here?
I'll take Gudbranson every day of the week over Subban, and I don't mind him. I think PK hurts the Habs at times, and just cause he's a top pairing guy on Montreal doesn't mean he would be elsewhere. Most teams he wouldn't be. (not in the mood to go an think or look which ones)
Erik isn't better than PK, but he grew steadily as the year progressed, and he certainly wasn't rushed. That's stupid. Send him back to Junior? Lol, why? He made a playoff team.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
Way too many people on here take stats as an end all.
I'll be the first to say that Guds struggled at the beginning of last season. Who wouldn't? Some d-men take years and years to develop.
However, as the season went on, you could see his development. By the middle of the season he was competent, and by the playoffs he was already showing signs of becoming a monster. He filled in for an injured Garrison on the top pairing and didn't look out of place at all.
He would not have benefited from another season in the minors. As it was, people feel he should have made the team the previous season. He just needed some time to adjust, as would any kid at that age playing defense in the NHL.
To say last season was 'miserable' for Gudbranson is very unfair. Kid is going to be a monster, and he's already showing the ability to get there sooner than later.
To say Gudbranson is a better dman than P.K. ATM is unfair too no ?
P.K. his our best dman on both sides of the ice, when he gets back his shot and the whole PP gets better (I.E. better coaching..) he'll be a 45+ dman .
I'll take Gudbranson every day of the week over Subban, and I don't mind him. I think PK hurts the Habs at times, and just cause he's a top pairing guy on Montreal doesn't mean he would be elsewhere. Most teams he wouldn't be. (not in the mood to go an think or look which ones)
Erik isn't better than PK, but he grew steadily as the year progressed, and he certainly wasn't rushed. That's stupid. Send him back to Junior? Lol, why? He made a playoff team.
I'm surprised to see Panther fans actually believing that he was NHL ready last season. But you are entitled to your opinion. The fact that he made the team is in question. I am arguing that he shouldn't have made that team and would have been better off playing top-pairing minutes in junior rather than sheltered (confidence shattering) minutes.
I just tried trading subban and a first to Florida for gudbranson on NHL 13 and they said no dice, (they said they were totally unwilling to give up what I asked of them, unless I REALLY want to make it worth their while).
I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence right there.
well ****, you got me there. NHL 13 is totally a credible source when it comes to trades. have you tried adding galchenyuk to that?
I'll take Gudbranson every day of the week over Subban, and I don't mind him. I think PK hurts the Habs at times, and just cause he's a top pairing guy on Montreal doesn't mean he would be elsewhere. Most teams he wouldn't be. (not in the mood to go an think or look which ones)
Erik isn't better than PK, but he grew steadily as the year progressed, and he certainly wasn't rushed. That's stupid. Send him back to Junior? Lol, why? He made a playoff team.
You better watch the habs more often... All that huge misconception around P.K. being unstable and making mistake in his own zone is ridiculous..
He's our most steady dman. Both O and D. He's even steadier than Gorges, who is the best Defensive D in the league. That say's alot.
I'm surprised to see Panther fans actually believing that he was NHL ready last season. But you are entitled to your opinion. The fact that he made the team is in question. I am arguing that he shouldn't have made that team and would have been better off playing top-pairing minutes in junior rather than sheltered (confidence shattering) minutes.
The hell? Confidence shattering? He got better as the season wore on and was terrific at times in the playoffs when paired with Soup and not Jovo. Confidence shattering would have been making the team two years in a row and being told he was being sent back to Juniors. Stop believing the nonsense in the papers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p
You better watch the habs more often... All that huge misconception around P.K. being unstable and making mistake in his own zone is ridiculous..
He's our most steady dman. Both O and D. He's even steadier than Gorges, who is the best Defensive D in the league. That say's alot.
I watch enough and I wasnt referring to his play, but rather his feistiness. While it helps him be him, he's also taken poor penalties. He's young, though.
I'm a Gudbranson fan. And a Panther fan, so I'd rather have him, it's not a knock on PK
There's no reasoning with a complete homer like this. Gudbranson was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season, but he was in no way top-pairing quality.
Your choice if you value him more than Huberdeau. I wouldn't trade Huberdeau for two Gudbransons. Kulikov is much better than Gudbranson. I'd probably take Bjugstand and Markstrom over Gudbranson.
Gudbranson will never hit even close to what Subban has offensively, but Subban is also on a different level than Gubranson defensively. You're right that there is no contest, but you're wrong about who's won that contest. Subban is not only elite offensively, but elite defensively. Gudbranson is miserable in both accounts right now. I'm sure his poor season had something to do with Jovocop being god-awful, but even with him he couldn't succeed in sheltered, third-pairing minutes. It boggles my mind that you think he's a top-pairing guy now.
I could see Gudbranson being a good #3D, but not for a few years, and certainly not now.
Ill be looking for you and habsfanatic in a couple of seasons. We will see.
Since this topic looks like it's basically coming down to Gudbranson vs Subban; as an unbiased non-fan of either team or player, I think Gudbranson will end up being the better player by far.
Are you guys serious? Proven NHL player vs prospect is never a good idea. Hell, at this point you could argue who has more potential between the two. Trading Subban for a prospect would be ridiculously stupid.
That's what you're going to have to pay for Florida to listen.
They're not going to be interested in your worthless spare parts.
Being both a Habs and Panthers fan, I find the people in this thread hilarious. you would think Subban was the second coming of god, but in reality he stunk the joint out last season.
I just tried trading subban and a first to Florida for gudbranson on NHL 13 and they said no dice, (they said they were totally unwilling to give up what I asked of them, unless I REALLY want to make it worth their while).
I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence right there.
And I traded Rene Bourque + 1st pick 2013 <-> Shane Doan on NHL 13 and Phoenix said : "I can't believe you'd give that much to us".
In reality, Phoenix would be insane to give Doan for Bourque and a 1st pick... Unless I'm wrong ?
Aside from that, someone mentionned that to get a 3rd overall pick, you should trade a 3rd overall pick... Has anyone come to mind that Galchenyuk IS a 3rd overall pick ?
Personally, it's a total pass from the Canadiens to aim for Gudbranson as we have Beaulieu and Tinordi in our rookie pool, but for the sake of this thread's question...
If we go by value only and leave aside the "untouchable" aspect, as Gudbranson has NHL experience, it probably should be Galchenyuk + 3rd round pick 2013 <-> Gudbranson.
Both sides say no because both sides wants to keep the player involved for their own team, but basically, value wise, I believe it should be around that...
This is a pretty ignorant thing to say.. I don't think you can say a 20 year old will never have the potential of another. It's up in the air at this point, and I think Gudbranson is already better than Subban, and so do a lot of others in this thread.
I fell outa my chair laughing reading this, thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillarWithASave
Why I even comment in a trade involving the Montreal Canadians blows my mind.
Why I even comment in a trade involving the Montreal Canadians blows my mind.
This comming from a guy who brings up the mention of ,Eller, Subban, and a 1st for Gudbranson.Yes why do you even comment in any Habs trade.
After reading this below
He played the 5th most even strength minutes on his team. He played extremely sheltered minutes. He had the worst EV points per 60 of the team's defensemen. He got the 5th most PP time of Panthers defensemen, and the 6th most PK time, and in what PK time he had he was awful. He was on the ice for 42 goals against compared to 26 goals for, despite playing really sheltered minutes. 8 pts in 72 games.
How can anyone lay claim he's a #1 Dman.
And than continue to make silly claims that he's already better than P.K.
Hmmm... I hear Gudbranson was amazing in the 2012 series against New Jersey...
Then I hear Gudbranson is better than Subban...
Okay.
Have you watched the 2010 playoffs when Subban shut down Crosby nearly the whole series after being called up having played barely few NHL games ?
And have you watched any Canadiens game this year ? Of course the team ended up the worst team in the East, but Subban was playing more than 25 minutes per game against the best lines with Gorges, while finishing +9 AND putting up 36 points, which are only 2 points less than his first year.
But stats aren't everything. At first, Subban had a very rough time to put up the promising future that left his first year... until Jacques Martin was fired. Martin wanted him to play more aware of what is happening on the ice until he was shown the exit by Gauthier. But working on the defense paid off because now, Subban is responsible defensively as well as being explosive from time to time.
That being said, it is still a possibility that Subban will regress, but it would be highly doubtful, especially with Michel Therrien being the new head coach, one that strives for intensity and passion, one thing that Subban definitely has.
Right now, Subban is one step ahead of Gudbranson, but we'll see in a couple years when the second one acquires more experience.
Pretty sure the most the Habs would give up is Subban.
And the only reason they would do that is if they wanted Subban out of town for some reason. So basically a player for player swap.
There's no way Florida considers trading a former 3rd overall pick, who's limit is the sky at this point.
He has a very rare skill set. He's a good skater, punishing, fantastic defensively, and loads of offensive potential. You just don't move guys like that this early in to their career.
Don't get me wrong I think that Guddy's a stud...but I never knew he was known for this................
Habs will not want to pay what the Panthers are going to want in return, great D but I just don't see us working out a deal for him, going to cost us way too much
I love all the panther experts from other fanbases. They all know so much about our team that they picked us to finish 14th in the east last year. Then because they spent so much time watching the panthers during th regular season, they picked the panthers to get knocked out by the devils pretty easily.
They obviously know more than we do, so I guess it's time to ship Gudbranson out for a bag of pucks.
I dunno, I like Gudbranson a lot and would love to have him on the Habs, but at this point, the way PK has developed his complete game over the past few years, I don't think it's likely that Gudbranson will ever catch up to him on an overall impact evaluation. Gudbranson will probably be a very solid citizen and great leader, defensive stalwart perhaps, and everybody will wish they had him on their team, but he'll never bring the offensive impact to go along with that which Subban seems likely to. Do some fans think the offense is coming from Gudbranson? I haven't watched him much in the NHL, I've seen him more in the OHL, but I never projected him as a guy who was going to make his presence felt offensively... ?
I dunno, I like Gudbranson a lot and would love to have him on the Habs, but at this point, the way PK has developed his complete game over the past few years, I don't think it's likely that Gudbranson will ever catch up to him on an overall impact evaluation. Gudbranson will probably be a very solid citizen and great leader, defensive stalwart perhaps, and everybody will wish they had him on their team, but he'll never bring the offensive impact to go along with that which Subban seems likely to. Do some fans think the offense is coming from Gudbranson? I haven't watched him much in the NHL, I've seen him more in the OHL, but I never projected him as a guy who was going to make his presence felt offensively... ?
First of all you have to accept the fact that gudbranson over his career could be one of the best defensemen in the game but will be criminally underrated because he played with the panthers. Looking through the lense of gudbranson playing on montreal he would be the 2nd coming of god. Heralded in the streets. A household name. The saviour of the canadiens franchise.
