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Subban : Habs - Flyers talked.

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Old
09-12-2012, 02:34 PM
  #51
Talks to Goalposts
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Also, this makes me think that Raymond's source is probably on the Flyers side. Simon Nolet, for example...
I think exactly that, all the details are on the Flyers side of things.

This is only news because its the Habs and no hockey is playing, other than as a window into business as usual in NHL front offices.

This is the story as I see it:

Flyers desperately want a start defensman.
Habs have one that they are trying to get under contract but not in a rush.
Flyers ask about said defenseman.
Habs aren't interested in trade but are curious about market value so asks if the Flyers second best asset is available.
Flyers consult internally and say they can't part with that.
Habs say "then you can't make a deal here."

Fin

I imagine stuff like this is going on all the time. A lot of consultations and manuvering but not that many major trades come out of it.

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Old
09-12-2012, 02:37 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I think exactly that, all the details are on the Flyers side of things.

This is only news because its the Habs and no hockey is playing, other than as a window into business as usual in NHL front offices.

This is the story as I see it:

Flyers desperately want a start defensman.
Habs have one that they are trying to get under contract but not in a rush.
Flyers ask about said defenseman.
Habs aren't interested in trade but are curious about market value so asks if the Flyers second best asset is available.
Flyers consult internally and say they can't part with that.
Habs say "then you can't make a deal here."

Fin

I imagine stuff like this is going on all the time. A lot of consultations and manuvering but not that many major trades come out of it.
I pretty much agree with that.

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09-12-2012, 02:46 PM
  #53
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I'm sure the Flyers inquired and I'm sure the asking price was too rich if it even got that far.

Teams enquire all the time but trades are seldom made. We don't have Goat as GM anymore so i have a new found confidence that our new GM.

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Old
09-12-2012, 02:53 PM
  #54
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I wouldn't move Subban for Couturier straight up. Flyers would have to add, Couturier has good potential(strong 2 way #2 center) but Subban has more upside(perennial Norris candidate).

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09-12-2012, 03:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I wouldn't move Subban for Couturier straight up. Flyers would have to add, Couturier has good potential(strong 2 way #2 center) but Subban has more upside(perennial Norris candidate).
I went down this road on the main board and was told by so called Habs fans i was embarassing myself. I just stated..that the only way Montreal would trade Subban " Who is there hottest marketing tool at the moment " was for a huge overpayment. Yet some fans would trade him straight up for Couturier.

Once again i try to explain to them that a great defenseman is worth wayyyyyy more than a great forward on the market.

And once again i am embarassing myself ? Like i said, if they truly want Subban, than give us Giroux or it's not happening.

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:05 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I wouldn't move Subban for Couturier straight up. Flyers would have to add, Couturier has good potential(strong 2 way #2 center) but Subban has more upside(perennial Norris candidate).
Pretty much this. Not to mention Montreal drafts well and has money. They have no problem getting supporting players. What they do have a problem with is getting top talent. Subban is the best skater on this team (I'd argue best player period). There should be little interest in moving him unless its for top quality back.

A Flyers overpayment like Couturier+Coburn is what it would take to get me interested. No way Phily does that though.

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09-12-2012, 03:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I think exactly that, all the details are on the Flyers side of things.

This is only news because its the Habs and no hockey is playing, other than as a window into business as usual in NHL front offices.

This is the story as I see it:

Flyers desperately want a start defensman.
Habs have one that they are trying to get under contract but not in a rush.
Flyers ask about said defenseman.
Habs aren't interested in trade but are curious about market value so asks if the Flyers second best asset is available.
Flyers consult internally and say they can't part with that.
Habs say "then you can't make a deal here."

Fin

I imagine stuff like this is going on all the time. A lot of consultations and manuvering but not that many major trades come out of it.
Et voila! Usual hockey discussions between GMs, nothing to talk about, even less to write about.. Poor Bertrand Raymond, no one is reading you seriously..

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
I went down this road on the main board and was told by so called Habs fans i was embarassing myself. I just stated..that the only way Montreal would trade Subban " Who is there hottest marketing tool at the moment " was for a huge overpayment. Yet some fans would trade him straight up for Couturier.

Once again i try to explain to them that a great defenseman is worth wayyyyyy more than a great forward on the market.

And once again i am embarassing myself ? Like i said, if they truly want Subban, than give us Giroux or it's not happening.
You were doing pretty well in that thread I thought.

Another factor is that Subban's perceived value hasn't caught up to his actual value. Few noticed how good he was actually doing last year because it was on a sinking ship. Good defensemen on bad teams get underrated (and bad ones on good teams get overrated).

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09-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
You were doing pretty well in that thread I thought.

Another factor is that Subban's perceived value hasn't caught up to his actual value. Few noticed how good he was actually doing last year because it was on a sinking ship. Good defensemen on bad teams get underrated (and bad ones on good teams get overrated).
Great point about the sinking ship. And to be honest how many so called Habs fans would have wanted this trade for Couts before the playoffs. It's because they had a chance to see him play during the playoffs, and well we know what happened to Subban in last years playoffs right ? He wasn't there.

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09-12-2012, 03:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
I went down this road on the main board and was told by so called Habs fans i was embarassing myself. I just stated..that the only way Montreal would trade Subban " Who is there hottest marketing tool at the moment " was for a huge overpayment. Yet some fans would trade him straight up for Couturier.

Once again i try to explain to them that a great defenseman is worth wayyyyyy more than a great forward on the market.

And once again i am embarassing myself ? Like i said, if they truly want Subban, than give us Giroux or it's not happening.
If you thought Subban for Couturier straight up swap was bad, I invite you to view the Gudbranson thread on there. Holy hell.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:28 PM
  #61
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If you thought Subban for Couturier straight up swap was bad, I invite you to view the Gudbranson thread on there. Holy hell.
There aren't many Florida fans, but what they lack in numbers they generally make up with in homerism. One fluke year on squeaking out 1 goal victories to make the playoffs in the weakest division in hockey and they think they're relevant again and their players are good.

Basically just like the Leafs but more isolated from general hockey and having suffered worse disappointments.

That's not just about the thread, its in general.

To be fair and balanced, Habs fans tend to have their own irrationalities. Like players either being great or sucking and making irrelevant comparisons to a bygone past.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
This is interesting in that it shows the Flyers aren't sufficently committed to actually pull off a Subban trade. Only two players I'd consider moving Subban for are Giroux and Couturier and that's Couturier+++.
I feel the same way.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:40 PM
  #63
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Bert Raymond wants to drive Subban out of town, hopefully getting a young gar de chez nous in return? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:52 PM
  #64
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And one of the Flyers beat writers shot it down:

''@BroadStBull: Forget the Subban trade rumors to the #Flyers. Nothing to it, a source tells me.''

Pretty funny reading Flyers fans who are basically saying they think they can get Subban without even trading Couturier (or Giroux) though.

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:10 PM
  #65
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I wouldn't move Subban. I still don't think teams can win it all without a real number one d-man and Subban is almost there. Move Subban and this team is in trouble imo since he have no one in the system who can potentially play 23-25 minutes of solid hockey a night on the backend.

Everyone likes the scorer, the centerman, but I still think that the number one d-man is just way to important to win. Teams have won without superstar centers. Look at Boston.

Also look at the teams that win and their d-men, Lidstrom, Doughty, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger, Keith, Seabrooke...it's just way too important. Markov is older and I don't think Beaulieu, Ellis or Tinordi will come close to what Subban has to offer us.

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09-12-2012, 05:12 PM
  #66
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Raymond is a grumpy old man that lacked action in his bedroom during his life.

On another note, can't they just settle for 50% each on the revenue already...

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09-12-2012, 05:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
2- Yes he has a pro-Quebec agenda... like about 80% of Habs fans.
More like 30%. There are far more Habs supporters outside of Quebec than within Quebec.

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09-12-2012, 05:51 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I wouldn't move Subban for Couturier straight up. Flyers would have to add, Couturier has good potential(strong 2 way #2 center) but Subban has more upside(perennial Norris candidate).
We heard the same thing for 10 years about Markov (perenial norris candidate yet hes almost washed up and he never was nominated for anything)

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:56 PM
  #69
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We heard the same thing for 10 years about Markov (perenial norris candidate yet hes almost washed up and he never was nominated for anything)
Just because he wasn't nominated does not mean he wasn't one of the top 5 D in the league. I find a lot of those awards are a joke anyway, it's more about favoritism than actual talent.

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Old
09-12-2012, 06:13 PM
  #70
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Point #1: Raymond is un cochon. A complete dumbass.
Point #2: Ofcourse he received offers. RFA stud = interest.
Point #3: Therrien won't have that much of a say to get a nearly franchise D traded.

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Old
09-12-2012, 06:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I wouldn't move Subban. I still don't think teams can win it all without a real number one d-man and Subban is almost there. Move Subban and this team is in trouble imo since he have no one in the system who can potentially play 23-25 minutes of solid hockey a night on the backend.

Everyone likes the scorer, the centerman, but I still think that the number one d-man is just way to important to win. Teams have won without superstar centers. Look at Boston.

Also look at the teams that win and their d-men, Lidstrom, Doughty, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger, Keith, Seabrooke...it's just way too important. Markov is older and I don't think Beaulieu, Ellis or Tinordi will come close to what Subban has to offer us.
I basically agree with all of this, but some of it could potentially depend on the evaluation of our current prospects at D. Without a doubt, it is the strength of the organization.

If they feel a hole can be filled by trading away one of our over abundance of D to solidify a problem area, they would be silly to not listen. However, I don't believe that habs management is anywhere near this position yet as no one in our system has the potential or current ability of Subban, but if they know something about Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis that makes them feel we could deal Subban it wouldn't be completely off the wall, but I don't expect this to be the case as Subban has a tool set that very few have.

He's here to stay imo.

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Old
09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Subban is nowhere near the player Giroux is!
Who cares. They are the buyers. Buyers over-spend.

Giroux or keep dreaming Flyers.

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09-12-2012, 07:17 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I think exactly that, all the details are on the Flyers side of things.

This is only news because its the Habs and no hockey is playing, other than as a window into business as usual in NHL front offices.

This is the story as I see it:

Flyers desperately want a start defensman.
Habs have one that they are trying to get under contract but not in a rush.
Flyers ask about said defenseman.
Habs aren't interested in trade but are curious about market value so asks if the Flyers second best asset is available.
Flyers consult internally and say they can't part with that.
Habs say "then you can't make a deal here."

Fin

I imagine stuff like this is going on all the time. A lot of consultations and manuvering but not that many major trades come out of it.
I bet this is almost exactly what happened. In fact I know all GMs talk to each other quite often. It would shock me if Bergevin has not had similar conversations about Subban with every team in the league in the past month.

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Old
09-12-2012, 08:47 PM
  #74
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You know what I really hate about Bertrand Raymond? It's his pro-Quebec agenda. He's probably had wet dreams of a Subban, Pacioretty, Price and Plekanec trade for Giroux, Briere and Couturier. I'm sure he would love for his "news" to happen, just as I would love for him to retire.
I would do that trade but without Max Pac.

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Old
09-12-2012, 08:57 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
And one of the Flyers beat writers shot it down:

''@BroadStBull: Forget the Subban trade rumors to the #Flyers. Nothing to it, a source tells me.''

Pretty funny reading Flyers fans who are basically saying they think they can get Subban without even trading Couturier (or Giroux) though.
Majority of hab fans think they can get good players without trading value, too.

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