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2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:00 PM
  #251
BrooklynRangersFan
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Quote:
Bettman: NHLPA proposal wasn't much different from 1st 1. Says NHL responded, made clear its new offer won't be on table after this week
-Leonard

Sigh. The take it or leave it BS is meaningless in a negotiation with 2 parties, Gary. Meaningless bluster.

Still, good news that both sides came to the table with meaningful proposals. Continue on towards the middle, boys...

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:08 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Bettman: new NHL proposal sends HRR back to current definitions, puts $250-300 million back on table, so $710-760 less ask than 1st offer
-Leonard

Gary's bullying bluster aside, if that's true and there aren't hidden catches, that's meaningful. (Not sure about Pat's math on the $760MM initial ask, though. )

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09-12-2012, 03:18 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
-Leonard

Sigh. The take it or leave it BS is meaningless in a negotiation with 2 parties, Gary. Meaningless bluster.

Still, good news that both sides came to the table with meaningful proposals. Continue on towards the middle, boys...
Yeah what's the point of doing that. What if the players say "we like a lot of this stuff but here are some points we'd like to work on" and some genuine progress is made, and then the 15th comes, is Bettman just gonna say "whelp, too bad, everything's off the table now back to square one"

It's pretty dumb

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:47 PM
  #254
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The KHL announced their stipulations for contracts in the case of a lockout

Quote:
Criteria for foreign players signed from NHL:
- Has played no fewer than 150 games in the NHL over the last three seasons;
- Has experience of playing in the KHL;
- Represented his country at one of the last two IIHF World Championships, World Junior Championships or the Olympics;
- Is a Stanley Cup winner, a Stanley Cup finalist, or a winner of one of the individual prizes awarded by the National Hockey League at the close of the season.
http://en.khl.ru/news/2012/9/12/24711.html

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:51 PM
  #255
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The NHL went back to the current definition of HRR. They wanted to change what went into HRR

Quote:
As @jsportsnet points out -- most significant move by #NHL was using existing definition of HRR. Worth about $100m
https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/st...63101105709058

Quote:
NHL counter-proposal today was six years in length: offered to start players' share at 49 percent and end it at 47 percent at end of term
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...67262140485632

Bettman says the take it or leave it offer is negotiable

Quote:
Bettman said NHL's proposal is one that can be negotiate. Not a final offer, but will come off the table after Saturday.
https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/sta...68276734238720

That 49% was 46% under the new definition of HRR. The NHL wanted to deduct the cost of generating revenue. 49% is again 49%. Can the NHL come up a little bit? The NHLPA has to come down. The other leagues see their players share come in at 47% for MLB,47%-48% for the NFL and 49%-51% for NBA. The NFL players get 40% of one pool,55% of another and X% of another pool. It breaks down to 47%-48%.

Estimated Revenue projections

$3.51B for this season
$3.76B for 13-14
$4.02B for 14-15
$4.30B for 15-16

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4528942/

MLB was a $3.5B business in 2002. Now its a $7B-$8B business.

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Old
09-12-2012, 03:52 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
The KHL announced their stipulations for contracts in the case of a lockout
This is great news for Finland, Austria, Switzerland and Germany.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:15 PM
  #257
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both parties are idiots right now....lock yourselves in a room for 3 days and just keep going back and forth. WHy stop, because they dont care. Just like when the lockout happens saturday, they will stop talking completely instead of going back at it monday morning. Its the most ridiculous thing, they dont care. Sit in a room, say okay hows about 50-50. You want same salary cap, we want 58..hows 65. You want 5 yr contacts, we want 15..hows about 10...and so on. Work the non economic stuff out while arbitrators do that, get it all lined up.

Both sides clearly dont care that much because if a 22 yr old can sit here and think of these steps, clearly they can too. They just dont want to because they dont care

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Stay on topic rainbros!
I second that. Keep topic -- Fehr's announcement is coming at 5pm today.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:48 PM
  #259
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Simmer down, kids.

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:53 PM
  #260
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As a fan, I'd love a hard cap from a long-term agreement. Bettman thinks six years is proper. I agree. The players are tapped if they want to keep doing this every three years.

Revenues go up, yet the owners want sharing to go down? Eff that. Hockeys about to recapture LA and NYC like the 1990s.

Seven years of annual profit growth. The Players aren't stupid.

The owners will lose big time if they reach a deal by Saturday

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #261
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I don't envy the reporters. Fehr is the Fuhrer of being tight lipped during negotiations. He's the king of cliche sound bites.

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09-12-2012, 04:59 PM
  #262
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do we know what the salary cap is for the latest proposed deal?

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09-12-2012, 05:10 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
As a fan, I'd love a hard cap from a long-term agreement. Bettman thinks six years is proper. I agree. The players are tapped if they want to keep doing this every three years.

Revenues go up, yet the owners want sharing to go down? Eff that. Hockeys about to recapture LA and NYC like the 1990s.

Seven years of annual profit growth. The Players aren't stupid.

The owners will lose big time if they reach a deal by Saturday
Revenues do not equal profit.

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:13 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I don't envy the reporters. Fehr is the Fuhrer of being tight lipped during negotiations. He's the king of cliche sound bites.
I will not characterize it beyond what i've already said.


he used that quote like 488 times in his last 7 minute interview.

from watching the 2 interviews it seems...to me, that the owners made a rather large concession, that the players didnt really do much, and that, right now, the ball is in the players court.

brilliant move by Bettman if its true...if there is a lockout, then the "blame" starts to shift towards the players. theyve changed the HRR calculations...thats huge. they increased the percentage they were willing to give, thats huge...the players, from what i can tell, havent budged 1 inch from their proposal, which, lets be fair, is just as ludicrous as the owners proposals have been.

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09-12-2012, 05:13 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
do we know what the salary cap is for the latest proposed deal?
hard to say...probably around 60 mil?

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09-12-2012, 05:17 PM
  #266
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owners seem that they are much more willing to compromise than they players. look how much they've moved off their first proposal. it can get done if they players stop being so damn stubborn

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09-12-2012, 05:30 PM
  #267
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Does anybody know where these meetings are being held? With 250 players in the city seems like it would be an awesome time to get some autographs..

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:42 PM
  #268
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Get strapped in folks, it's going to be a long one...

https://twitter.com/jessespector/sta...00216183029761

Quote:
Fehr says players asking for 67% would be equivalent to today’s offer from owners. Good times, clearly union is thrilled.

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09-12-2012, 05:45 PM
  #269
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https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...00667947315201

Quote:
Fehr, in his second newser of the day, confirms league's newest offer starts at 49 percent for players' share and fazes to 47 percent...
That's right where it should be, 49/51 or 50/50. Fazes to 47% but both players and owners expect revenues to climb. Looks like the owner's hit the nail on the head with their offer today, and the players aren't having it because they don't want to leave 57% so far behind...

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09-12-2012, 05:47 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
owners seem that they are much more willing to compromise than they players. look how much they've moved off their first proposal. it can get done if they players stop being so damn stubborn
Are you a paid league spokesman? The first NHL proposal was positively absolutely ridiculous. Of course the league has to move further. They started off asking for a 24% rollback, a change in the definition of HRR, a five year cap on contracts, an extra three years for UFA status, an extra two years on ELCs, and to get rid of arbitration entirely.

Contrast the league proposal, which contained all demands and no concessions, with the initial player proposal. They're not trying to get rid of the cap, they agreed to de-link their cut from revenue for three seasons, and proposed the biggest increase in revenue sharing to help small markets. Neither proposal was perfect, but you're nuts if you think this is on the players.


Last edited by Zil: 09-12-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
09-12-2012, 05:47 PM
  #271
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all i see if the players complaining about offers but not making any significant give backs to date.

how does he figure it would be like them asking for 67 percent when they've been ahead the whole time on the breakdown?

get it in line. come back with 54 something. let the owners go to 50 and you'll end up at 52 and win.

you'll lose alot more money missing half the year boys

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:48 PM
  #272
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Honestly, I'm not sure how much the PR battle actually matters, but if the owners actually get back to 50% (their latest offer brings 'em pretty close), the players will be perceived as the bad guys from there on out.

Everybody around the table is a millionaire and the players get LESS than half in all the other sports. There's no way the average fan will continue to side with them once the owners can say "c'mon guys, we're offering to split it 50/50!"

EDIT: see the posts above as evidence.

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09-12-2012, 05:51 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Are you a paid league spokesman? The first NHL was positively absolutely ridiculous. Of course the league has to move further. They started off asking for a 24% rollback, a change in the definition of HRR, a five year cap on contracts, an extra three years for UFA status, an extra two years on ELCs, and to get rid of arbitration entirely.

Contrast the league proposal, which contained all demands and no concessions, with the initial player proposal. They're not trying to get rid of the cap, they agreed to de-link their cut from revenue for three seasons, and proposed the biggest increase in revenue sharing to help small markets. Neither proposal was perfect, but you're nuts if you think this is on the players.
and what concession have the players made? making it a 5 year proposal? big whoop. the players have done nothing and need to stop being so stubborn. look at the industry and what other pa's have gotten. this is in the players hands

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Old
09-12-2012, 05:56 PM
  #274
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The players are beginning to look very foolish IMO. Fehr said the big markets need to step up and so far that hasn't happened yet. Is he really hoping that there is a split in union between the owners so the PA gets a better deal?

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09-12-2012, 05:59 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
The players are beginning to look very foolish IMO. Fehr said the big markets need to step up and so far that hasn't happened yet. Is he really hoping that there is a split in union between the owners so the PA gets a better deal?
guess he doesnt listen much. the league said revenue sharing wasnt an issue a month ago when the pa proposed an increase. said they were close on it

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