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Gillis: Potential Return For Luongo May Not Improve Canucks **Mod Warning #86**

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Old
09-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
I see them playing about 50% of the games each, with one of them getting up to 15% more starts if they are playing lights out. for those of you who are math challenged that works out to nearly 2/3 of the starts.
Yes, I'm sure the Olympic gold medalist and former 2x All-Star will continue being a "team first" guy while seeing action once a week, if that.

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09-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #27
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A three way trade would be pretty awesome. Opens up all sorts of possibilities.

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09-12-2012, 07:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A three way trade would be pretty awesome. Opens up all sorts of possibilities.
Wouldn't matter if it was a twelve-way trade. All that matters is where Luongo will ultimately end up, and if he ain't feeling the final destination, then he aint signing off.

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09-12-2012, 07:46 PM
  #29
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Gillis isn't content -- he has tried hard to make a deal and been unable to. At first Gillis denied that Luongo wanted out but it became all to obvious. He's been trying for months and hasn't suceeded. He's now realizing he will need to make a lesser deal.

Having Luongo back in a Nucks jersey riding the pine is not an option. Anyone with a dose of reality knows this.

Be interesting to see if he goes to FLA.
Gillis has been saying that he expects the CBA will have to resolved before a Luongo deal can be consummated for quite some time now. This *strongly* implies that he's content to wait until that point to make a deal. Anyone with a dose of reality knows this, although that seems to be limited to Avs44 as far as non-Canucks fans in this thread are concerned.

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09-12-2012, 07:47 PM
  #30
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Gillis is just admitting what all rational Canucks fans knew already. He's just being realistic. Having it become more and more obvious that Lu wants out sure isn't helping his trade value though.

I agree with what others in this thread have said in that any trade that gets rid of Luongo and brings back a roster player technically makes the Canucks a "better"team simply by replacing a back-up goalie with a player who can help the team win every night.

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09-12-2012, 07:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yes, I'm sure the Olympic gold medalist and former 2x All-Star will continue being a "team first" guy while seeing action once a week, if that.
All reports indicate as much. Honestly, what has Luongo done in this whole process to indicate that he's not going to be a team first guy?

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09-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yes, I'm sure the Olympic gold medalist and former 2x All-Star will continue being a "team first" guy while seeing action once a week, if that.
Sorry u totally miss the point. Instead of 60-40 CS as was suggested, i "suggested" that play them 50-50 with one of them getting nearly 2/3 IF (thats a big IF) he dominates, either Luo or CS.

If Luo has a save percent of say .890 and CS is at .937, do you disagree that CS is going to start 2/3 of the games. (and the reverse being true as well).

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09-12-2012, 07:59 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
Sorry u totally miss the point. Instead of 60-40 CS as was suggested, i "suggested" that play them 50-50 with one of them getting nearly 2/3 IF (thats a big IF) he dominates, either Luo or CS.

If Luo has a save percent of say .890 and CS is at .937, do you disagree that CS is going to start 2/3 of the games. (and the reverse being true as well).
Going 50/50 indicates that neither goalie is playing well enough to "grab the ball and run with." And don't give me, "Well, we've got to get Roberto his starts" crap. Isn't winning priority No. 1? If If Schneider is playing well, you don't sit him just so Roberto can stay warm. You stay with the hot hand until it gets cold, period. If Schneider can't nail down the No. 1 job, obviously you hang onto Luongo as an insurance policy, but if Cory shows he can catch fire for long stretches, you can be certain that Luongo won't be pleased wasting away at the relatively youthful age of 33 (for a goalie) on the bench.

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09-12-2012, 08:00 PM
  #34
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IF Luongo was willing to waive his NTC to come to Toronto (a big "if"), and IF the Leafs wanted him (a smaller "if"), then I think a deal along the lines of Liles + MacArthur for Luongo would make sense. I think the Nucks have been missing a really smooth puck mover since Ehrhoff left, they went from being a super dangerous transition team to one that sometimes struggled to score, and I think Liles would help a lot there. MacArthur is a solid winger who can play on any of their top 3 lines, and simply add scoring depth. I honestly doubt the Nucks would get an offer much better than that.

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09-12-2012, 08:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
IF Luongo was willing to waive his NTC to come to Toronto (a big "if"), and IF the Leafs wanted him (a smaller "if"), then I think a deal along the lines of Liles + MacArthur for Luongo would make sense. I think the Nucks have been missing a really smooth puck mover since Ehrhoff left, they went from being a super dangerous transition team to one that sometimes struggled to score, and I think Liles would help a lot there. MacArthur is a solid winger who can play on any of their top 3 lines, and simply add scoring depth. I honestly doubt the Nucks would get an offer much better than that.
Didn't Toronto just resign Liles to an extension relatively recently? Not to mention, after him, who's their best PMD? Gardiner? Gunnarsson? They can't move him.

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09-12-2012, 08:07 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
"three teams": VAN - FLA - TOR?

EDIT: Example:
1. Luongo to FLA
2. Theodore to TOR
3. TOR draft pick + FLA prospect + FLA roster player to VAN
No offense to Theodore, but under those circumstances, that draft pick better be mighty stinky. 35 year old goaltender with 1 year on his contract who is literally only being traded because of a log-jam in the Panthers net because of the trade. I don't see how Theodore has much of any value under those circumstances...especially if both teams were vying for Luongo in the first place and the Leafs taking Theodore would be assisting Florida in making that possible.

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09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
  #37
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Great another thread where Canucks fans will be told what is & what isn't by everyone else


Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
IF Luongo was willing to waive his NTC to come to Toronto (a big "if"), and IF the Leafs wanted him (a smaller "if"), then I think a deal along the lines of Liles + MacArthur for Luongo would make sense. I think the Nucks have been missing a really smooth puck mover since Ehrhoff left, they went from being a super dangerous transition team to one that sometimes struggled to score, and I think Liles would help a lot there. MacArthur is a solid winger who can play on any of their top 3 lines, and simply add scoring depth. I honestly doubt the Nucks would get an offer much better than that.
... for Toronto.




(wasn't talking specifically or even about you ponder fyi)

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09-12-2012, 08:10 PM
  #38
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Don't expect a Luongo trade by the 16th, and it will probably be Markstrom to Toronto.

Markstrom for MacArthur, 3rd and Percy

Luongo for Matthias, MacArthur and 1st 2013

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09-12-2012, 08:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
If Luongo is riding the pine (because he's not getting traded if Schneider poops himself), wouldn't getting almost anything for Roberto improve the Canucks? You'd be getting assets for a player who'd playing once a week, tops, at that point.
But by this account if the Canucks have to take back a 'salary dump' like some have suggested then they will effectively be worse off than just keeping Luongo.

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09-12-2012, 08:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yes, I'm sure the Olympic gold medalist and former 2x All-Star will continue being a "team first" guy while seeing action once a week, if that.
Those situations never work out fairly when "play the best guy" comes into play. There is always an inherent favourite player, and under the circumstances there is absolutely no reason for that player to not be Schneider. He's younger, just as good and not under a colossal contract.

Does a shutout define "playing better", or does a win streak despite mediocre performance declare it. Or does a coach inherently start thinking about how his team needs to get comfortable playing in front of a certain guy a little more and start leaning toward the guy who is less likely to be traded.

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09-12-2012, 08:13 PM
  #41
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Gillis certainly seems to be preparing Canucks fans for a trade that won't look great -- not often a GM admits that an impending trade will most likely not improve his team in isolation.

That being said, I think the deal has to wait until we get more clarity on what the CBA is going to look like before the right deal for the Canucks / whomever Luongo goes to becomes evident. That being said, it's certainly possible that the Canucks don't want to get themselves in a position where any players with big contracts see their value plummet in a cap reduction without rollback scenario, while the Canucks are desparate to try and offload over $5m in salary without taking much back.

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But by this account if the Canucks have to take back a 'salary dump' like some have suggested then they will effectively be worse off than just keeping Luongo.
Not necessarily. Just because a guy may have a contract with a cap hit greater than what it would take to acquire an equivalent player in free agency, doesn't mean he wouldn't be an everyday contributor to the Canucks.

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09-12-2012, 08:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
Don't expect a Luongo trade by the 16th, and it will probably be Markstrom to Toronto.

Markstrom for MacArthur, 3rd and Percy

Luongo for Matthias, MacArthur and 1st 2013
Why would the Leafs trade a proven 20 goal guy, and former first round pick for a goaltender with a grand total of 8 games of NHL experience?? The Leafs have enough unproven netminders. If they're going to add one, it should be a vet.

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09-12-2012, 08:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Why would the Leafs trade a proven 20 goal guy, and former first round pick for a goaltender with a grand total of 8 games of NHL experience?? The Leafs have enough unproven netminders. If they're going to add one, it should be a vet.
Id do it. Unproven or not, he is still the best goalie prospect atm and has the highest probability of reaching star potential. Not to mention every asset included is redundant. MacArthur is a 20 goal scorer but is a pending UFA (who may not even get to play the final year of his contract which would make him potentially worthless at this current moment), Percy who although is a great prospect is redundant with Blacker and Rielly above him in the depth chart and Finn right behind, and a 3rd is well a 3rd.

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09-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #44
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I'll give a go at a 3 way; Van-Tor-Phi

To Toronto: Ilya Bryzgalov

To Philadelphia: Roberto Luongo

To Vancouver: Nazem Kadri, Philadelphia 1st, Tor 2nd

Toronto trades away a prospect who could use a change in scenery for a staring goaltender, who played behind a worse defense than Toronto's, so can only improve, especially under Carlyle's system.

Philadelphia upgrades their goaltending and gains cap space at the cost of a late first.

Vancouver gets some futures to help them stay competitive long term, as well as a versatile NHL-ready prospect that can play centre or wing, so he can slot in for Kesler, play 3C, or 2nd line wing, giving Vancouver a nice youth movement for the first part of the season with Schroeder, Kassian, and Kadri all loaded with potential,so when Kesler comes back we could get unprecedented scoring depth.

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09-12-2012, 08:22 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Why would the Leafs trade a proven 20 goal guy, and former first round pick for a goaltender with a grand total of 8 games of NHL experience?? The Leafs have enough unproven netminders. If they're going to add one, it should be a vet.
How can you have an unproven veteran?

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09-12-2012, 08:22 PM
  #46
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Id do it. Unproven or not, he is still the best goalie prospect atm and has the highest probability of reaching star potential. Not to mention every asset included is redundant. MacArthur is a 20 goal scorer but is a pending UFA (who may not even get to play the final year of his contract which would make him potentially worthless at this current moment), Percy who although is a great prospect is redundant with Blacker and Rielly above him in the depth chart and Finn right behind, and a 3rd is well a 3rd.
Who cares? At the end of the day, he's a goalie prospect. You don't give up that much for a goalie prospect, no matter what they do in leagues outside of the NHL -- simply too hard to predict.

Those assets can be used for much better uses. MacArthur holds a fair bit of value to a lot of teams and could possibly yield us a defenceman. Percy may not ever get a fair shot here, but he's at least a year or two away from needing that NHL shot... so might as well hang onto the asset to fill an organizational weakness. Prospect goaltenders are not an organizational weakness.

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09-12-2012, 08:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'll give a go at a 3 way; Van-Tor-Phi

To Toronto: Ilya Bryzgalov

To Philadelphia: Roberto Luongo

To Vancouver: Nazem Kadri, Philadelphia 1st, Tor 2nd

Toronto trades away a prospect who could use a change in scenery for a staring goaltender, who played behind a worse defense than Toronto's, so can only improve, especially under Carlyle's system.

Philadelphia upgrades their goaltending and gains cap space at the cost of a late first.

Vancouver gets some futures to help them stay competitive long term, as well as a versatile NHL-ready prospect that can play centre or wing, so he can slot in for Kesler, play 3C, or 2nd line wing, giving Vancouver a nice youth movement for the first part of the season with Schroeder, Kassian, and Kadri all loaded with potential,so when Kesler comes back we could get unprecedented scoring depth.
You do realize that in your proposal Torontos giving up more for Bryzgalov then Philly is for Luongo? Not to mention Bryzgalov will be a salary dump rather then an actual asset and wouldnt garner that much of a return.

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09-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Who cares? At the end of the day, he's a goalie prospect. You don't give up that much for a goalie prospect, no matter what they do in leagues outside of the NHL -- simply too hard to predict.

Those assets can be used for much better uses. MacArthur holds a fair bit of value to a lot of teams and could possibly yield us a defenceman. Percy may not ever get a fair shot here, but he's at least a year or two away from needing that NHL shot... so might as well hang onto the asset to fill an organizational weakness. Prospect goaltenders are not an organizational weakness.
Again, with a lockout looming, MacArthur holds absolutely no value until a CBA is signed.

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09-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
You do realize that in your proposal Torontos giving up more for Bryzgalov then Philly is for Luongo? Not to mention Bryzgalov will be a salary dump rather then an actual asset and wouldnt garner that much of a return.
Because Philadelphia isn't adding a goaltender, they are upgrading from an average one to an elite one. Bryzgalov is decent goaltender, and especially under Carlyle's system could do well.

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09-12-2012, 08:27 PM
  #50
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Nuck fans aren't going to like the return, but most of us have been saying this. Clemmer is likely the guy to go in a trade. He doesn't have a NTC and is signed for 2 years where Theo is only one and Markstrom will be closer to being ready.

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