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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

1987 Canada Cup: CCCP vs Canada - Game One, Two & Three

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Old
09-12-2012, 07:24 PM
  #26
Macman
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Canada has been so good this period. It's a joy to watch Gretzky and Lemieux with Coffey jumping into the play every chance he gets. There's no way the Soviet goal should have counted.

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09-12-2012, 07:33 PM
  #27
Ohashi_Jouzu
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How about Keenan talking about deciding to cut Yzerman, Neely, Cicarelli, Scott Stevens, and Al MacInnis in favour of Rochefort, Propp, etc? Would have loved to see those 5 as a unit, jesus.

Larry Murphy on the TSN panel: "Good thing we won, eh Mike?"

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09-12-2012, 07:41 PM
  #28
DisgruntledGoat
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I can't help but post this. Granted, I fully realize this is a very one-sided selection of episodes. I'm sure Canadians can make their own video selection to match. But just FYI. There is no question in my mind that Koharsky favored Canadians.

According to the announcers, the Soviets requested Koharski because they thought he did a strong job in their earlier games.

A neutral country ref, Paul Stewart (USA), reffed game two.

Not that I expect that to hve ANY impact on the interweb conspiracy theories, though.

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09-12-2012, 08:08 PM
  #29
King Woodballs
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As a goalie, what is going through your mind as you see a 26 year old Gretzky and a 22 year old Lemiuex coming at you on a 2 on 1?

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09-12-2012, 08:29 PM
  #30
Brewsky
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Don't spoil the results I've never seen this!

Oh it was 25 years ago...

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09-12-2012, 09:03 PM
  #31
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Wow Mike Johnson what a lucky guy! Lemieux gives him his stick after the 1st overtime!

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09-12-2012, 09:11 PM
  #32
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So as this is a re-broadcast, I assume TSN skipped the first OT?

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09-12-2012, 09:11 PM
  #33
redbull
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Don't spoil the results I've never seen this!

Oh it was 25 years ago...
Stop trying to make some of us feel old.
Rude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Watching game 2 now, of course, and it should be pointed out to those who doubt Gretzky's defensive capabilities, and get tunnel vision on Gretzky's 5 assists when looking at the scoreline: he has killed every penalty so far in the first period. Under-rated defensively by the younger generation(s), for sure.
he worked really hard in these games. The whole team did.

I remember being really upset at the time, with Yzerman and Neely and Stevens and MacInnis being left off the team, as mentioned by Ohashi_Jouzu a few posts ago. Then I thought, if they lose, it's because of those dumb decisions. And for years I felt they won IN SPITE of those decisions (and because 99 & 66 carried them). Guys like Brent Sutter, Claude Lemieux, even Gartner - well, I thought there were much better options.

But Keenan loves his role players and Noonan and Matteau!

The opposing teams were very good, especially the Soviets and Czechs, and the level of play was much better than I'd expected at the time. The games were closer than I thought they'd be.

Looking back, boy, that level of play was something special.

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09-12-2012, 09:11 PM
  #34
King Woodballs
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Wow Mike Johnson what a lucky guy! Lemieux gives him his stick after the 1st overtime!
Too bad for johnson he never got any of the skill from Lemieux with it

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09-12-2012, 09:13 PM
  #35
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I love those Soviet jerseys.

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09-12-2012, 09:17 PM
  #36
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I love how this rebroadcast switches from the shiny, updated look, to the original more grainy look during replays.

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09-12-2012, 09:27 PM
  #37
GQS
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Too bad for johnson he never got any of the skill from Lemieux with it
As a Leafs fan, I'm really sad that it didn't either.

And so are these games recorded on VHS tape then? Haven't seen those kinds of lines down the screen in a looong time.

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09-12-2012, 09:41 PM
  #38
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Looking back, boy, that level of play was something special.
Sure was, right through the 2nd overtime. Amazing that Canada's 10 forwards were able to keep up the pace being pushed by the Russians rolling 4 healthy forward lines. It was interesting to hear Larry Murphy talk about going back to Washington after that series and saying that the NHL felt like slow motion, relatively.

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09-12-2012, 09:45 PM
  #39
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After watching all these replays it's clear to me: if the Soviets had a better goalie (at least on the level of Fuhr... not to speak of Tretiak), they would have swept the series, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bourque be damned.

On a side note: Fetisov makes one mistake after another. Was definitely not himself.

On another side note: remember what I said about Soviet players ranked too low on the HF charts? Based on that series alone, Makarov should be in the Top 15, Krutov, Kamensky, and Kasatonov -- in the Top 30. I'm now convinced of this.

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09-12-2012, 09:49 PM
  #40
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Oh, and I forgot how great that Moscow Soviet Wings line was: Khmylev-Pryakhin-Nemchinov.

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09-12-2012, 09:51 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
After watching all these replays it's clear to me: if the Soviets had a better goalie (at least on the level of Fuhr... not to speak of Tretiak), they would have swept the series, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bourque be damned.

On a side note: Fetisov makes one mistake after another. Was definitely not himself.

On another side note: remember what I said about Soviet players ranked too low on the HF charts? Based on that series alone, Makarov should be in the Top 15, Krutov, Kamensky, and Kasatonov -- in the Top 30. I'm now convinced of this.
Don't agree that a better goalie gives the Russians any better than the proverbial "50/50 chance" of winning that series. It's a hypothetical, like Canada bringing Scott Stevens instead of Doug Crossman, or whatever. A lot of those goals were created from scrambles, and better puck stopping goalies aren't all automatically also better at dealing with scrums and heavy traffic.

Do agree that there are some Russian players that remain criminally under-rated despite the best efforts of some of the more knowledgeable "elders" around here.

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Old
09-12-2012, 10:08 PM
  #42
redbull
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
After watching all these replays it's clear to me: if the Soviets had a better goalie (at least on the level of Fuhr... not to speak of Tretiak), they would have swept the series, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bourque be damned.

On a side note: Fetisov makes one mistake after another. Was definitely not himself.

On another side note: remember what I said about Soviet players ranked too low on the HF charts? Based on that series alone, Makarov should be in the Top 15, Krutov, Kamensky, and Kasatonov -- in the Top 30. I'm now convinced of this.
I always thought Makarov was the best of those players, never really impressed by Krutov (mind you, when he came to North America, he was much fatter and he really played like crap). Some used to say Makarov was as good as Gretzky (I remember comments like this before the Canada Cup.

You can tell he had immense talent, but he was no Gretzky.

Kasatonov really played well and I thought Fetisov was also great, but he did give the puck away a lot.

Gretz and Mario made defenders look bad a lot though, their anticipation makes dmen look worse than they are. Sometimes it looked like they'd just give the puck to Mario, in the NHL as well, especially when it looked like he was floating out there. Pretty impressive.

I loved the way the Soviets played in this tournament and the fact they were close, very close to winning, is quite a feat, especially when you have two of the best players ever, in their prime, for Canada.

Amazing hockey.

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09-12-2012, 10:12 PM
  #43
DisgruntledGoat
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I think we saw enough of Kamensky in the NHL to rank him appropriately.

He scored spectacular goals but that doesnt mean he's top 30 all-time.

Todd Bertuzzi has a hell of a personal highlight reel, too... Does that make him top ten?

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09-12-2012, 10:15 PM
  #44
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Anyone know if TSN will rebroadcast these 3 games one more time before September ends???

If possible, I wanna PVR these bad boys after I move next week.

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09-12-2012, 10:37 PM
  #45
redbull
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I think we saw enough of Kamensky in the NHL to rank him appropriately.

He scored spectacular goals but that doesnt mean he's top 30 all-time.

Todd Bertuzzi has a hell of a personal highlight reel, too... Does that make him top ten?
I thought Kamensky would have been much better in the NHL, boy was I wrong. I also though Liba for the Czechs would have been a star, but he played a handful of games then took off.

Tough to know if it was the cultural adjustment, the physical play, did they lack desire/passion to compete in the NHL, or were they ill-suited to the game?

I remember when CAL brought over Sergei Priakhin - he was horrible in the NHL but looked very good internationally. And what about that dude the Leafs "stole" - Miro Ihnacek.

I also recall Doug Gilmour struggling to play in Europe when Ken Yaremchuk said that Gilmour was too slow to play there.

You can never tell what you get when you play in a different league/culture/country.

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09-12-2012, 10:39 PM
  #46
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My goodness, Gretzky must have gotten away with at least 10 huge hooks this game. Old time hockey

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09-12-2012, 10:42 PM
  #47
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Anyone know if TSN will rebroadcast these 3 games one more time before September ends???

If possible, I wanna PVR these bad boys after I move next week.
They're replaying again at midnight EST, and I'd imagine they'll replay a few times more given that this year marks the 25th anniversary of the series.

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09-12-2012, 10:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I thought Kamensky would have been much better in the NHL, boy was I wrong. I also though Liba for the Czechs would have been a star, but he played a handful of games then took off.

Tough to know if it was the cultural adjustment, the physical play, did they lack desire/passion to compete in the NHL, or were they ill-suited to the game?

I remember when CAL brought over Sergei Priakhin - he was horrible in the NHL but looked very good internationally. And what about that dude the Leafs "stole" - Miro Ihnacek.

I also recall Doug Gilmour struggling to play in Europe when Ken Yaremchuk said that Gilmour was too slow to play there.

You can never tell what you get when you play in a different league/culture/country.
Kamensky broke his leg right before his NHL career, then his ankle his rookie year.

His speed and acceleration were never the same afterwards, which unfortunately were important aspects of his game.

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09-12-2012, 10:50 PM
  #49
NyQuil
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I remember being really upset at the time, with Yzerman and Neely and Stevens and MacInnis being left off the team, as mentioned by Ohashi_Jouzu a few posts ago. Then I thought, if they lose, it's because of those dumb decisions. And for years I felt they won IN SPITE of those decisions (and because 99 & 66 carried them). Guys like Brent Sutter, Claude Lemieux, even Gartner - well, I thought there were much better options.
We always have guys like that on teams, but they become scapegoats if Canada loses.

Case in point - everyone remembers Keith Primeau and Rob Zamuner in 1998.

But in 2002, most people don't seem to mind Mike Peca.

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09-12-2012, 11:44 PM
  #50
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Watching this series just highlights what a crime it is that Sergei Makarov isn't in the Hall of Fame. He is so fast and so slick with puck - easily the best Soviet forward.

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