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Trade for Luongo, Yea or Nay?

View Poll Results: Trade for Luongo, Yea or Nay?
Yea 42 36.21%
Nay 74 63.79%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-12-2012, 04:55 PM
  #701
Pantherfan12
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How does he NOT fit the blueprint?? How does having a Top 10 goalie in the entire league somehow ruin his blueprint? Tallon has had amazing drafts. We have a young, but successful team. We have depth at every position. **IF** we aquired Luongo in a trade and had a Luongo/Theo-Luongo/Clemmer-or Luongo/Markstrom how is that veering off the blueprint path? Who's to say we couldn't make a Cup run? Theoretically ( just saying,am not expecting a Cup win) L.A was the 8th seed team and they won. They weren't favored to win. We would have a top 10 goalie. A great D, lead by Campbell, and some hopefuls in Mueller and Huberdeau to bring our offense to the next level.
Anything is possible but I don't think anything bad would come if we aquired Luongo.

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09-12-2012, 05:14 PM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
How does he NOT fit the blueprint?? How does having a Top 10 goalie in the entire league somehow ruin his blueprint? Tallon has had amazing drafts. We have a young, but successful team. We have depth at every position. **IF** we aquired Luongo in a trade and had a Luongo/Theo-Luongo/Clemmer-or Luongo/Markstrom how is that veering off the blueprint path? Who's to say we couldn't make a Cup run? Theoretically ( just saying,am not expecting a Cup win) L.A was the 8th seed team and they won. They weren't favored to win. We would have a top 10 goalie. A great D, lead by Campbell, and some hopefuls in Mueller and Huberdeau to bring our offense to the next level.
Anything is possible but I don't think anything bad would come if we aquired Luongo.
Luongo makes sense for the Panthers, only at the right price though. His hatred for Luongo is quite clear, that is why he doesnt fit into our plan. A Luongo/Markstrom tandem down the road would be just fine with me!

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09-12-2012, 05:21 PM
  #703
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Gillis said today in regards to Luongo that Vancouver, as one of the wealthiest teams in the NHL, doesn't make trades to just clear salary and are perfectly content to keep Luongo on their roster. So, as the lockout is about to start, Vancouver is not moving off their demand for a significant piece in exchange for Luongo.

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09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Gillis said today in regards to Luongo that Vancouver, as one of the wealthiest teams in the NHL, doesn't make trades to just clear salary and are perfectly content to keep Luongo on their roster. So, as the lockout is about to start, Vancouver is not moving off their demand for a significant piece in exchange for Luongo.
Gillis' tune will change when AV continues favoring Schneider, and Luongo voices his displeasure with playing second fiddle. Oh, and the cap potentially taking a big drop. Gillis is just posturing.

BTW, could MG be softening on his demand?

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“I don’t think you replace an all-star goalie and necessarily feel you have to be better — but you have to be different.”
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post


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09-12-2012, 07:01 PM
  #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Gillis' tune will change when AV continues favoring Schneider, and Luongo voices his displeasure with playing second fiddle. Oh, and the cap potentially taking a big drop. Gillis is just posturing.

BTW, could MG be softening on his demand?
Sounds a lot like the statement Holmgren made last year with the Flyers.

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09-12-2012, 08:26 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
luongo does not fit into our blueprint!!!!!
You honestly should be banned from this thread. How is what you're doing not trolling, at this point? Ridiculous. I hope you've gotten infractions, all things considered. I've gotten warnings in the past for far less and I'm sure others have, as well.

Look at all your posts and most of them (especially now toward the latter part of the thread) are all stating the same thing in different words, and adding absolutely nothing.

We get it; you do not want Luongo. You only have to say it once for it to be understood. I think everyone who participates in these threads knows how to read. Saying what you say over and over isn't going to change anything regarding a trade.

What's the point of continuing to do this? Did Luongo kill someone you love or something? Give it a rest.

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Old
09-12-2012, 09:30 PM
  #707
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sorry I've taken a while to respond to your comment Erick


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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Goaltending wasn't a problem last year. However, with the two goaltenders we have, there's no guarantee that it won't be a problem this year. Just because something works once doesn't mean it will work on a consistent basis. What are the odds that Theodore and Clemmensen play the same way they did last year?
Fair enough, at the end of the day this is all hypothetical and speculative talk though...what if Luongo has a Thomas like year? What if Luongo has a Mason like year? What if what if.....ultimately we're both basing our assessments in educated guesses, note that I've never said Luongo is not a good goalie, but the fact is you don't really need a goalie like Luongo to make it to the playoffs, and we have proven that...and making an educated guess I'd rather spend or take an albatross contract in a forward position(which we need help in) than for a 33 year old goalie.....and the fact is, that this has been our story for the past, gee, like forever, goalie position has never been an issue for us, except the Auld season


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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
We're going to need good goaltending again to get into the playoffs this year and Luongo provides stability in net. His consistency over the years makes him one of the best goalies of all-time and he's still consistently good on a yearly basis.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/stats/...roberto-luongo
I think you're missing my point. I'll repeat it again, I've never denied Luongo's quality, my whole argument is on the need for Luongo. Yes, any position that we fill with a star player even if we have gotten solid result the previous season in that position is a good transaction, but we have to analyze its cost. We will improve a position which wasn't an issue and add an albatross contract....and I don't believe Campbell is comparable, Loungo will not add to our goalie position what Campbell has added to this team's blue line...no way...and Campbell's contract is 6 years shorter than Luongo's

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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
People are very much overrating his decline. He's a great goaltender. We should not be building our team around Markstrom right now. If Markstrom proves himself at this level, we begin to think about it. Until he does that, he is what he is - a prospect. A prospect who we'd one day be delighted about if he became...the next Roberto Luongo, performance wise.
I think we just have different approaches to the way we think the franchise should handle things. That much is obvious. I'm one who thinks "enough of the pampering" and just throw him in there. Why not? This franchise never takes any risks, Markstrom has already played in a league of men, this is the best goalie prospect in the world we're talking about

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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It is not a terrible situation to have Luongo and Markstrom on the same team; that would actually be ideal. Theodore and Clemmensen are just stopgaps; Markstrom is not blocked, whatsoever.
I totally agree, but my point is, when Markstrom becomes #1 what now? a 5 million dollar backup?

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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
The whole Luongo salary thing is also being overblown. 1) He's more than likely not playing out his entire contract. 2) Vancouver would be getting some of our terrible contracts in return via trade. I'll take Roberto Luongo's "bad contract" over Scottie Upshall's BAD CONTRACT. With Upshall, it's a bad contract because he's...well, bad. With Luongo, his "bad contract" is the equivalent of Brian Campbell's "bad contract." I'm sure we really regret trading Rostislav Olesz for Brian Campbell, though.
That's speculative as well. What makes you think playing until he's 40 is not a motivational thing for Luongo knowing he's going to be earning top dollar? Shoot, I sure as hell would not retire knowing I'll be making that money even if I couldn't stop a beach ball...

yeah you might think sending Upshall and other bad contracts is a wonderful idea, only that Vancouver will only be stuck with those "bad contracts" for what? 4 more years max? While we'll be stuck for a loooooooong time with Lou's.....also Upshall might retire


Last edited by Panteras: 09-12-2012 at 09:42 PM.
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Old
09-12-2012, 10:31 PM
  #708
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Since alot of these arguments seem to be repeating themselves, I think I'll throw in my own 2 cents. I'd rather not have Luongo here primarily for the length of that contract and because like Laus said I feel he's a bit overrated. I don't feel that he would ultimately derail the blueprint or anything but I do feel it would slow down the progression of it.

IMHO I felt that Markstrom could've passed for a very solid backup for Theodore and in seeing him play during that short period (mind you I don't fancy myself a scout by any means) I came under the impression that this guy could be NHL ready in a year or two. Even now I believe that to be the case. Now as I look back at this particular discussion (I tend to do more lurking than typing lol) alot of you on these boards would probably agree with the time frame and when you look at the way the contracts are set up as far as our goalie situation, on capgeek for those who need a link, it's set up so that it gives Markstrom 3 years at the most to develop to where he needs to be a starting goaltender in the NHL. At least that's how I'm interpreting it but that'll put Markstrom at what? 25-26 years old? That's about the same age that Quick is now and I believe he had a similar path of development. My point is is that if Markstrom is meant to be the starting goaltender of the future and he's only a few years away from being at that level that we all expect, why would we need to prolong the process further by adding a 10 year contract? Even if Luongo plays for only 6 years out of the 10 and he's moved to a backup role you're potentially going to be paying 6.7 million for a backup.

Which brings me to my other thought on the subject. Just for kicks I went back and compared last seasons' numbers for Theodore and Luongo on the NHL's website. I know small sample size....but outside of their wins/losses stats they were all pretty comparable and if I were an owner who was passionate about improving his team I would probably be thinking that if the level of play Luongo displayed last season is what I'm to expect for the rest of his tenure on my team and those numbers are comparable to the goaltender I already have, why would I spend 5x the amount I'm already paying for a similar level of play? I know Luongo's been more consistent over the course of his career but I'd be concerned by the fact that Luongo was demoted to backup last season and my point about comparable stats with Theodore. I would be wondering if Luongo hasn't already started the downhill stretch of his career.

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09-13-2012, 12:47 AM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
I've never said Luongo is not a good goalie, but the fact is you don't really need a goalie like Luongo to make it to the playoffs, and we have proven that
For that matter, you don't need a single player who is considered Top-10 at their position on your roster to make the playoffs, but you're GM would be pretty stupid to sit by idly if one became available.

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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
...and making an educated guess I'd rather spend or take an albatross contract in a forward position(which we need help in)
In 20 years, it's happened once, and it will never happen again. Tallon isn't operating on a Blackhawks budget anymore. It's nickel-and-dime and buil-through-the-draft time, and that's fine by me.

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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
albatross contract
explain why Luongo's contract is an albatross, in detail.

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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
I'm one who thinks "enough of the pampering" and just throw him in there. Why not? This franchise never takes any risks, Markstrom has already played in a league of men, this is the best goalie prospect in the world we're talking about
Clearly you don't follow the Panthers if you think Tallon would consider making Markstrom the starter sooner rather than later. He has shown more patience with developing Florida's prospects than any of this organization's past GMs. He's alreay had procedures done on his knees, despite being young as hell. He has never played 50 games in a season at any level. He hasn't been dominant in the AHL. He's not ready for No. 1 duties at the NHL right now.

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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
When Markstrom becomes #1
When Markstrom becomes #1? Is that some sort of guarantee?

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09-13-2012, 01:45 AM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
For that matter, you don't need a single player who is considered Top-10 at their position on your roster to make the playoffs, but you're GM would be pretty stupid to sit by idly if one became available.
There's a reason why Tallon and other GM's are sitting idle and not jumping at Luongo.

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09-13-2012, 01:47 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
There's a reason why Tallon and other GM's are sitting idle and not jumping at Luongo.
Yes, it's called the soon-to-expire collective bargaining agreement.

Were you implying something else?

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09-13-2012, 04:53 AM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yes, it's called the soon-to-expire collective bargaining agreement.

Were you implying something else?
Pretty sure gillis' demands have hindered things a bit as well. A lot, actually. Are you implying that has nothing to do with it??

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09-13-2012, 11:27 AM
  #713
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If they can get him for a salary dump and someone like a Santorelli, then that's fine. But no prospects, and no Weiss or Campbell or Gudbranson (since he's not a prospect anymore) or anyone else like that for Luongo. And also no 1st round picks, especially in next years draft. If Vancouver says no to any of that then I would smile and say have a nice day and that would be the end of that trade discussion.

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09-13-2012, 12:04 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yes, it's called the soon-to-expire collective bargaining agreement.

Were you implying something else?
Don't you find it odd that pretty much no one is making any offers on a goalie who is arguably top 5 in the league? And the CBA has some to do with it. But it's not even close to being the only reason.

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09-13-2012, 12:11 PM
  #715
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It probably has something to do with his NTC and his overt desire to return to Florida.

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09-13-2012, 12:13 PM
  #716
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I think it boils down to are you willing to be wrong about trading for Luongo or are you willing to be wrong about not trading for him. I'll take the latter myself. Not even close.

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09-13-2012, 06:03 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
For that matter, you don't need a single player who is considered Top-10 at their position on your roster to make the playoffs

Ahhh yup, correct, that is a true statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
but you're GM would be pretty stupid to sit by idly if one became available.
I love how you frame it in such a black and white sort of way...thankfully, that's not how good GMs think and see things..specially when it's for a player in a position that you don't need help in who has a cap hit of 5+ for the next 10 years and is 33 and in decline....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
In 20 years, it's happened once, and it will never happen again. Tallon isn't operating on a Blackhawks budget anymore. It's nickel-and-dime and buil-through-the-draft time, and that's fine by me.
Ok Nostradamus, so let me get this straight, this franchise will never again go for a massive contract, you think it's all about nickel-and dime and build-through-the draft time and no Blackhawk budget and you're fine with it.....yet you think that we should get Luongo.....contradiction much? lols


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
explain why Luongo's contract is an albatross, in detail.
better yet, why don't you explain how it isn't???

But I'll bite. My personal opinion is that no contract is an albatross contract if the player justifies it. If Luongo even manages the #'s Brodeur has managed until Brodeur's age, than heck ultimately it won't be an albatross contract.

But since neither me nor you, well maybe you do Mr.Nostradamus lols, can tell what's in store for the future, we just have to go through present occurrences and empericism to make an educated guess.

The fact is, Roberto Luongo is a 33 years old, who has been declining in play. He was taken out of the # 1 choice by Cory Schneider. This was obviously not Vancouver's or Luongo's plans, and more than obviously Vancouver thinks it made a mistake and wants to get rid of this hot potato

He is signed to a $5,333,333 cap hit contract for the next 10 years that means that he'd be 43 years old when it's all over. He'll be earning an NHL salary of $6,714,000 until he's 39, which is the 2017-18 season, I'm pretty sure barring a career ending injury that Luongo will not budge at least till then to retire. Taking all of these factors into account, this is an albatross contract because by making an educated guess from what I see Luongo will not be a starter until he's 39, and his form will not justify that kind of money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Clearly you don't follow the Panthers if you think Tallon would consider making Markstrom the starter sooner rather than later. He has shown more patience with developing Florida's prospects than any of this organization's past GMs. He's alreay had procedures done on his knees, despite being young as hell. He has never played 50 games in a season at any level. He hasn't been dominant in the AHL. He's not ready for No. 1 duties at the NHL right now.
Gudbranson made it this season, heck he might have played season before had they worked out the contract thing...ultimately, even if you are right, it doesn't justify bringing in Luongo... there are way waaaaay more safer risks to take before Markstrom becomes NHL ready


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
When Markstrom becomes #1? Is that some sort of guarantee?

Luongo will help this team to the playoffs, is that some sort of guarantee? I can play that too..

------------------------------------------------------------------


Look my point is simple, if we had Kovalchuk and Weber or something, than heck yes!! screw it, bring in Luongo now and we'll deal with the consequences later because that would make us right there and then a contender....but with the current team that we have? It doesn't justify it, it just doesn't...

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09-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #718
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hey guys, how many times do we have to rehash the same arguments. i think every possible scenario has been discussed ad naseum. i don't think anyone should comment unless there is a fresh idea, or current news. honestly, i know there isn't much happening, but this thread is getting old. updates, or fresh opinion are welcome however.

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09-13-2012, 08:07 PM
  #719
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I think we've beaten this drum to death.

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